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Super ShowDown III - 2/27/2020


Dolfan in NYC

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7 minutes ago, just drew said:

I don’t remember anyone ever saying “holy shit, that Hogan leg drop was awesome! I don’t care about his character, but the way he drops that leg...textbook!” The matches didn’t make anyone care, outside of maybe steamboat/savage. Warrior’s a good shout, though...

 

Just now, just drew said:

Yeah, I misspoke. I know the point I was trying to make, but I didn’t say it right. Savage was incredible. I’m just not sure that’s why people cared so much...

Dude, you're having a conniption. No one is trying erase the character or separate it from the work. Steve Austin was one of the top workers in North America from 1992 to until his body completely broke down. Once he became Stone Cold, he didn't decide "you know what? I'm just going to stop having good to great matches now that I have a good gimmick." When I think of being a great worker, I don't think ****+ every night. 

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3 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I can't stand this shit. This "such and such was liked or disliked by many" shit. THAT'S ON HERE. As much as I like DVDVR, we don't fucking matter. Bray is pretty much universally praised for his work and creativity by many in wrestling, regardless of the promotion. If he was so disliked by many, why were people going nuts to see him turn face and take on HHH during the authority angle, why were people invested in his tag run with Matt Hardy, why was he one of the top heels with the Wyatt Family, and so on? 

We've over analyzed what made Bray work a million times, but it all came down to when he has the Family with him, everything clicked, when he didn't have the Family, then he's just a cult leader without a cult. To say he was widely disliked as a worker by many is ridiculous.

You realize I'm talking from a strictly in ring perspective right? I haven't heard praise for his work there in years, and I'm not just talking about from DVDVR. Honestly, I'm generally ok with Bray's work. I actually have enjoyed the stuff with the Fiend. I just think its weird to claim people were speaking so highly of his work before the Fiend because I remember many being down on him then. They seemed to like the character, not his actual matches.

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4 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I can't stand this shit. This "such and such was liked or disliked by many" shit. THAT'S ON HERE. As much as I like DVDVR, we don't fucking matter. Bray is pretty much universally praised for his work and creativity by many in wrestling, regardless of the promotion.

Maybe I’ve just curated my Twitter timeline too well, but he is absolutely not universally praised, especially in his current form.

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1 minute ago, JonnyLaw said:

Maybe I’ve just curated my Twitter timeline too well, but he is absolutely not universally praised, especially in his current form.

I couldn't care less about Twitter. Also, here is what I said. You may want to re-read it: Bray is pretty much universally praised for his work and creativity by many in wrestling, regardless of the promotion.

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6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Dude, you're having a conniption. No one is trying erase the character or separate it from the work. Steve Austin was one of the top workers in North America from 1992 to until his body completely broke down. Once he became Stone Cold, he didn't decide "you know what? I'm just going to stop having good to great matches now that I have a good gimmick." When I think of being a great worker, I don't think ****+ every night. 

No, but he decided that slowing his body's breakdown was more important than having great matches. No one paid a dollar to see Steve Austin because they wanted to see him Thesz Press people. They paid to see him drink beer, talk shit and kick his boss's ass. And I don't care if you think I'm having a conniption or not. 

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1 minute ago, Craig H said:

I couldn't care less about Twitter. Also, here is what I said. You may want to re-read it: Bray is pretty much universally praised for his work and creativity by many in wrestling, regardless of the promotion.

Touche’, although DVDVR is pretty much the last place I ever expected “well other workers like him” to be used as an argument.

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13 minutes ago, ComingToAmerica said:

And indeed there's quite a lot of stuff that the DVDVR originals were into back in the day that few of us would care to sit through. I sincerely doubt even Christopher Daniels would want to.

In my own experience, solid classic wrestling ages well (Bret Hart, for example) and big, scary mofos throwing people around ages like fine wine. But innovative, highly athletic, "state of the art" wrestling ages poorly, because people come along who jump higher, flip more, move faster, and can go longer. I think the best example of that is watching the two classics from WrestleMania X. Bret vs Owen was a great match then, it's a great match now, it'll be a great match in 2035. Shawn vs Razor was a mind blowing, never before seen, I can't believe it match in 1994. Now, it's a ladder match with a bit more psychology and way less awesome moments than you expect.

Which is fine, you aren't wrestling for the people who are going to see the match 25 years later.

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17 minutes ago, just drew said:

 No one paid a dollar to see Steve Austin because they wanted to see him Thesz Press people.

No one is saying that, dummy. 

Quote

No, but he decided that slowing his body's breakdown was more important than having great matches. 

Huh? This makes no sense at all. He didn't slow his body breaking down at all. Even then he was still having good to great matches on PPV and good matches on TV. By the time his run was coming to an end, WWE had a ton of tremendous workers (from Jericho to Eddie to Benoit to Angle) as opposed to when he came in to WWF and WWF's roster was barren and top heavy as hell. 

17 minutes ago, just drew said:

And I don't care if you think I'm having a conniption or not. 

Cause you are. You already conceded three or four points cause you're talking out of your ass.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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13 minutes ago, ComingToAmerica said:

Let's face it, we all know quite well that Austin could have a better match than Goldberg. Not that I particularly want him to, but he could.

Of course. Austin was a much smarter worker so he’d figure it out, but it also comes down to presentation. An Austin match would have the requisite smoke and mirrors so he wouldn’t look like a fool. Goldberg’s problem is that his smoke and mirrors are his entrance (which YMMV) and his signature power moves, which he’s increasingly having trouble doing. Like, Foley said in one of his books, the genius of the Stunner is you can do it on anyone. Austin can occasionally come out and kick a dude in the gut and hit his gimmick for another twenty years if he feels like it. Goldberg’s jackhammering days are almost up. 

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12 minutes ago, Casey said:

Even Reigns himself is shitting all over the idea of working Goldberg at WrestleMania.

Goldberg is 53 years old, and he basically peaked over 20 years ago. The days of guys dragging out decent three star matches out of him in the WWE era are long gone. Jericho is still a miracle worker at 49 but even he can't do with Goldberg now what he could do 17 years ago. 

You know it's one thing to have Goldberg come in and be the guy to squash Lesnar. That's already a sad state for wrestling, but it's even sadder to have this happen now with probably the best character they've had in years, a guy they've already constantly undercut and almost sabotaged left and right. 

It's once again proof that Vince McMahon's mentality of grabbing the brass ring is garbage. Guys grab the brass ring, they work hard, they get over, and then Vince McMahon shits all over them for it. And Bray Wyatt is the definition of a homegrown star as well. 

This vanity run with Goldberg is downright bizarre considering he's a guy that Vince never made in the first place. It's like Vince has nostalgia for the Monday Night Wars now. I don't get it.

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SINCE IT CAME UP, ironically enough, when I go back and look at Hogan when he was young, I am impressed by the athleticism of the legrdrop.  He got great height on it back in the day (and they used to know how to use camera angles to make it look even better back before the Kevin Dunn Dark Ages.  Sigh.)

I mean, it's still a damn legdrop, and I love to take the piss out of it and cite it as Exhibit A of "as long as You are over and It is protected, your finisher can be any old dumb thing you want and it will be totally fine" as much as anybody, but as far as legdrops go...

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Speaking of things that aged spectacularly well, Goldberg in WCW is absolutely amazing to watch now. He was sloppy, but he was so explosive, so charismatic, so God damn impossibly strong, and so fucking over that even in early 2001, he was the best thing in wrestling.

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3 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Speaking of things that aged spectacularly well, Goldberg in WCW is absolutely amazing to watch now. He was sloppy, but he was so explosive, so charismatic, so God damn impossibly strong, and so fucking over that even in early 2001, he was the best thing in wrestling.

the only Spear that was ever worth a shit.

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4 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

SINCE IT CAME UP, ironically enough, when I go back and look at Hogan when he was young, I am impressed by the athleticism of the legrdrop.  He got great height on it back in the day (and they used to know how to use camera angles to make it look even better back before the Kevin Dunn Dark Ages.  Sigh.)

I mean, it's still a damn legdrop, and I love to take the piss out of it and cite it as Exhibit A of "as long as You are over and It is protected, your finisher can be any old dumb thing you want and it will be totally fine" as much as anybody, but as far as legdrops go...

It would explain the hip replacement surgery.

On that subject, how crazy is this? Hulk Hogan barely wrestled on PPV for four years, hardly wrestled on Nitro, and before that spent about two years filming movies and TV shows while wrestling sporadically. His body is still an absolute physical wreck.

 

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Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Rhino's gore

How much is that doing it on Spike Dudley and women that were 100 pounds in ECW so they looked like ragdolls when he did it?

But I would argue Goldberg had spears that looked like shit, but most of that was on people who didn't know how to take it. Same can be said for the stunner. When someone didn't know how to take it, it was fucking hilarious.

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