WWE Finances, et al Discussion

[LoneWolf&Subs]

 

Time to move up the Vince doomsday clock.

Edited February 6, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[AxB]

Remember when they bought Tout and thought it was going to be bigger than Vine and Twitter? They had Sheamus nick ADR's cat and drive around posting stuff to promote it. If that had worked out well, nobody would ever have heard of Tiktok.

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, D.Z said:

Vince is playing the long game, he expects better results and more growth over time. 

He's definitely playing something.

[Matt D]

10 minutes ago, BurningBeard said:

I only watch old stuff. As long as they leave the archival stuff alone I couldn't give two hoots

They already broke that!

[dragonzombie]

 

[Craig H]

And I'll for sure cancel if PPVs and Takeovers are moved off the Network. There's no fucking way I'm paying for monthly PPVs. The only thing I MIGHT do is order Wrestlemania or Royal Rumble. 

Honestly, that's what they should have been doing this whole time. When the Network was first announced we all talked about what an insane model it was to include ALL PPVs in the subscription. We thought that maybe we'd still have to order WM, Royal Rumble, Summerslam, and Survivor Series separate, but everything else would just be on the Network. They probably would have been making a whole hell of a lot more money if they were just still charging for those PPVs or even giving a discount on them if you were a Network subscriber.

Now though, like others said, the $9.99 genie has been out of the bottle and other companies get away with charging for PPVs because they're not every month and they're treated as a big deal.

[John from Cincinnati]

5 minutes ago, D.Z said:

 

Now please don't ask any questions about the morale of our independent contractors. 

[dragonzombie]

https://www.f4wonline.com/wwe-news/wwe-q4full-2019-financial-results-audio-revenue-network-subs-more-303581

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

The problem with that for a conglomerate's developmental promotion is that ultimately, it ties to the same point: If you don't use developmental, then you'd inevitably be going to a "bring in top stars from the independent scene as your newcomers", and ultimately it's down to that same issue: The vast majority of independent wrestlers just don't LOOK like stars. They just don't. And the ones who you could argue do look like stars? They don't look like enough of stars to be good on a conglomerate's taste. 

That would mean a move like UFC wouldn't work- if you use indies as developmental, they'd be hiring people who are very talented from the indie scene, but who just don't pass the eye test. It'd also be a problem because of the important tools a wrestler needs: you can teach someone how to wrestle if they can't work a lick. If someone isn't charismatic, it's going to be a harder road- but there's some cases where a wrestling promotion taught an uncharismatic worker how to be snarky and cut some good one-liners and make it look like they're charismatic. But with the look- you either got it or you don't. There's not that much you can do to give someone a great look, and even if you have a Jinder Mahal-type situation where a wrestler who didn't really have "the look" decides to kill themselves to change that, they'll end up looking like...uh, Jinder Mahal on steroids.

Considering that "the look" would be a big core to making a star- especially by conglomerate standards, you'd NEED development to take people with the look and teach them to wrestle.

I agree with this, but maybe it's just my view as a casual fan, it sounds like WWE is signing everyone they think has the look or help them with their look. Now you have a problem where you have at least two or three dozen men and women with the look on the WWE roster or NXT and you're scrambling to keep everyone (or most of them) strong. That creates parity (or 50/50 booking). And to be fair, it sounds like a vast majority of them can work decently or work exceptionally well. Go back to the glory days of WWF. They only needed three or four people with the look:  Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Steve Austin, and the Rock. All those dudes were surefire bets. Right now, they have a bunch of Rick Martels and Curt Hennigs or Owen Harts, Phil LaFons, and Doug Furnases. Shawn Michaels was suppose to be a surefire bet as probably the best worker in North America in the early to mid 90s, but 1996 ended up being the worst year in WWF history. I am not saying put the belt on some schlub or stiff with a good body and above average height, but we're finding out why WWF never put the belt on a Ted DiBiase as great as he was. Ted DiBiase had everything going for him: great theme, great voice, stellar promo, poise, and could work and bump his ass off which is why he had to stop wrestling. He shouldn't be the number one guy though. Right now, WWE developmental is pushing out a bunch of guys (and now girls) that would be awesome for the midcard and upper midcard in any era just on look and/or work alone. However, what's the point if you are getting no real superstars?

In the event of a purchase, I see whatever parent company putting the onus on the talent to get a certain look or figure out how to work, then they sign them, and creative services or the writers give them a new name, new gear, and/or new gimmick like the old days.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[Technico Support]

It is god damn tremendous that, apparently, one reason Wilson and Barrios were canned is because they wanted to increase profitability by, you know, NOT HIRING EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER UNDER THE SUN AND RE-SIGNING LOWER MIDCARDERS TO INSANE DEALS and that shit was just a bridge too far for Vince.

[Craig H]

And people think WWE will crumble when Vince dies or steps down.

THIS IS NOT A MAN WHO SHOULD BE RUNNING A COMPANY THIS LARGE and the notion that he'll now be shouldering even MORE responsibilities is fucking insane. WWE would be better off operating like any other corporation of their size. Again, when he leaves the company will be better off because all of this shit that this crazy, myopic person is responsible for will be gone and all of those tasks and responsibilities will be handed down to a more appropriate team designed to take care of those things.

[Peck]

53 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I'm not going to lie, but the other reason I might cancel is because every fucking time I go to launch the Network in browser or on my Roku I have to log back in. Browser stuff makes sense because sometimes cookies get deleted or whatever, but having to re-log back in on streaming devices sucks.

Oh, that and having every PPV or Takeover spoiled when I start from beginning and it immediately shoots to the end of the show or goes to the live portion or if I'm fast forwarding it jumps to the end when I hit play again.

My iOS and Android phones had an update this morning that said it specifically addressed the login issue so hopefully that fix is across all platforms. I haven't tried it yet though.

[RIPPA]

I think what Sean is implying/asking is would the Network finally be used to show those long rumored indie companies (EVOLVE, Progress, WXW, etc)

[Craig H]

Something else to point out with moving PPVs off of the Network is that they would stand to lose even more money. Right now I assume they're raking in almost all of the subscription costs, so that's about $14 million per month before you subtract other operating costs. PER MONTH.

For PPVs, you have to go back to 2013 to look at buyrates and that was during a time when viewership, engagement, and absorption was better than it is now. They averaged 330k buys a month because the big 4 PPVs buoyed the PPVs doing far lower buyrates. That comes out to $16.5 million per month if PPVs cost $50 a shot, but then that figure is probably far less when you factor in how much of a cut other PPV providers would get. Not to mention how many people would likely cancel their Network subscription since it doesn't cover PPVs anymore. 

[Technico Support]

15 minutes ago, Craig H said:

And people think WWE will crumble when Vince dies or steps down.

THIS IS NOT A MAN WHO SHOULD BE RUNNING A COMPANY THIS LARGE and the notion that he'll now be shouldering even MORE responsibilities is fucking insane. WWE would be better off operating like any other corporation of their size. Again, when he leaves the company will be better off because all of this shit that this crazy, myopic person is responsible for will be gone and all of those tasks and responsibilities will be handed down to a more appropriate team designed to take care of those things.

Who would have thought that running a publicly-traded wrestling company like it's still a 1980s regional fiefdom would not work out?

Meltzer speculating on Vince's psyche, that he was damaged by his guys leaving and WCW beating him, is amazing.  So his solutions to making sure that nobody becomes a big star and leaves is to...uhhh...never make stars and never let anyone leave.  That's like getting a flat and solving it by taking all your tires off and leaving your car on the front lawn.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Technico Support

[RIPPA]

This is picking nits but Vince himself in the conference call basically said that all the PPVs would still be available on the Network. It was just that some would not be available live (and just later on demand)

Then they were pressed about WHICH PPVs? and that is when they hemmed and hawed 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Count me in as someone who would cancel their subscription and also never buy a PPV at $50 unless it was maybe WrestleMania.

I order AEW PPVs because they feel special and so far they have built goodwill with me. 

I'm not ordering a glorified RAW.

[Craig H]

Just now, RIPPA said:

This is picking nits but Vince himself in the conference call basically said that all the PPVs would still be available on the Network. It was just that some would not be available live (and just later on demand)

Then they were pressed about WHICH PPVs? and that is when they hemmed and hawed 

And really it should just be RR, WM, Summerslam, and Survivor Series that you have to pay for. That's how it should have been this whole time. That's how a lot of us thought it would work and we still thought $10 a month for everything else would be an incredible bargain.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

29 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

It is god damn tremendous that, apparently, one reason Wilson and Barrios were canned is because they wanted to increase profitability by, you know, NOT HIRING EVERY SINGLE WRESTLER UNDER THE SUN AND RE-SIGNING LOWER MIDCARDERS TO INSANE DEALS and that shit was just a bridge too far for Vince.

Im picturing him yelling "YOUVE NEVER BEEN TO WAR!!" at these two regular ass corporate employees

[Craig H]

Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

Count me in as someone who would cancel their subscription and also never buy a PPV at $50 unless it was maybe WrestleMania.

I order AEW PPVs because they feel special and so far they have built goodwill with me. 

I'm not ordering a glorified RAW.

That's another side of all of this...They've de-emphasized PPVs to such a degree that they're overbloated and meaningless. And WWE is never a company that shows customers they've changed and I would have zero reason to believe they'll change and actually have better builds to PPVs. It'll just be the same old shit because building TV is still the most important thing.

[Craig H]

6 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Who would have thought that running a publicly-traded wrestling company like it's still a 1980s regional fiefdom would not work out?

Meltzer speculating on Vince's psyche, that he was damaged by his guys leaving and WCW beating him, is amazing.  So his solutions to making sure that nobody becomes a big star and leaves is to...uhhh...never make stars and never let anyone leave.  That's like getting a flat and solving it by taking all your tires off and leaving your car on the front lawn.

Sounds perfect for someone from a North Carolina trailer park.

[RIPPA]

Let's not immediately jump to ALL THE PPVS ARE BACK TO $60!!!!

It is seeming more and more that PPVs will be going to another existing service that pays the WWE for the rights. So that's where they would get their money - not from "buys"

The leaders in the club house are Peacock, ESPN+ and DAZN

See...

Also - this is just talking US rights. They would have to work out separate International deals

[NikoBaltimore]

26 minutes ago, Craig H said:

And people think WWE will crumble when Vince dies or steps down.

THIS IS NOT A MAN WHO SHOULD BE RUNNING A COMPANY THIS LARGE and the notion that he'll now be shouldering even MORE responsibilities is fucking insane. WWE would be better off operating like any other corporation of their size. Again, when he leaves the company will be better off because all of this shit that this crazy, myopic person is responsible for will be gone and all of those tasks and responsibilities will be handed down to a more appropriate team designed to take care of those things.

Agreed on all counts.  I don't wish ill will to the crazy bastard but adding more to his workload when there should be less might not end well for him, especially at his age.

Also, for what it's worth I haven't had one issue running the Network on my smart TV.  Which is a relief since it's been the only the device that so far hasn't had issues for me.  Now watch it completely crap out next time I fire it up.

EDIT:  As for the PPVs it's not that hard for them to just charge for the big 4 and have them on the Network a month after it airs.  That would have been way more sustainable than what they have now.

Edited February 6, 2020 by NikoBaltimore

[RIPPA]

What I should have added is that some of you might already have the subscription to where the PPVs go.

Like I know some of you did that Disney+ bundle that also gave you ESPN+

[Raziel]

Moving the PPV's to ESPN+ would get me to sign on to that bundle, since I currently have no use for ESPN+ but much use for DIsney+.