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RIP Kobe Bryant

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I don't usually visit this section of the board often, as I follow the WNBA more than the NBA. Oddly, that's because of Kobe Bryant. I grew up a Lakers fan, but I was not a fan of Kobe Bryant. I thought he was a selfish player, and I didn't ever really accept him even though I acknowledge his obvious skill as a player. I ended up distancing myself from following the Lakers, and subsequently the NBA, thanks to the Lakers picking Kobe over Shaq (especially after Colorado). I decided to loosely follow the NBA at that point, and ended up following the WNBA more. Over the last few years, I've been picking back up with the NBA again, but admittedly it was after Kobe's retirement that I started following more in depth.

So needless to say, when Kobe became one of the most vocal WNBA supporters, I initially wrote it off as typical Kobe selfishness. I thought of it was Kobe only caring about the WNBA because he was grooming his daughter to become a WNBA player. Then I listened to the first episode of Ledlow & Parker (which is a very good podcast, by the way), where Kobe has an interview. He mostly talked about coaching his daughter's team, but he also talked about how the WNBA didn't have the resources or media attention that it as a league deserved. I went in prepared to roll my eyes and scoff at Kobe, but I was impressed. Maybe he wasn't selfish. Maybe he wasn't just interested in women's basketball because of his daughter. Maybe he was genuinely interested in it as a section of the sport he loved.

I was looking forward to a future, eight to ten years down the line, where Gigi Bryant was on the WNBA court and Kobe was courtside rooting her on. A next level version of Courtney and Don Williams. The fact that this isn't ever going to happen now, because we lost both Kobe and Gigi today, makes me sadder than I would've thought possible if you had talked to me about it even three months ago.

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2 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Kobe is just one of the most fascinating, complicated and interesting human beings ever in the public eye. He died too young. His daughter's passing is horrible. I wasn't a fan, but I'm glad he was there for me to root against.

I'm only quoting the last part for the sake of space, but this is a great post.  So very, very well said.

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Anyone with any sense of honor or integrity or ethics, who works at TMZ, should resign today. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Anyone with any sense of honor or integrity or ethics, who works at TMZ, should resign today. 

Read that part again, but slowly.

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Not that I'm going to defend TMZ, but it's really on whoever gave them that info to begin with and less them.  It's not on them to wait until families are notified, it's on the agency conducting the investigation to NOT say who's the victims until everything's properly done.

 

That said, it's a problem with journalism in the age of the 24 hour news cycle where everyone rushes to just be first  so they get the clicks with no regard on who it affects, or half the time if it's even accurate, so a little decorum wouldn't fucking hurt.

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1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Anyone with any sense of honor or integrity or ethics, who works at TMZ, should resign today. 

 

Also, as a former journalism student, that isn't really their fault.  Their job is to report things like this, it's the police's job to notify the family.  TMZ has no way to know when they notified his family, that isn't their concern.  If TMZ knew enough to report this, the police knew enough to notify the family.  I don't know how that is their issue? 

The real problem with the reporting of this is how many "credible" news organizations were just wildly speculating about who was or was not on the helicopter.  We've really destroyed journalism in a way that is kind of dangerous for our society.  I can't think of a single journalism entity that I think of as trustworthy.  Did anyone see the racist ass New York Times article about how China's omnivorous food markets are why so many pandemics originate in China?  The first few paragraphs say, Chinese people eat a lot of weird shit and it is all sold in the same market.  This is where diseases become pandemics.  Then, after most people stop reading it says, "The exact path of the pathogen has not been established."  That shit is just irresponsible.  It is imperialist bullshit that is essentially, "why can't those Chinese people eat the same things we eat?" OK, back to the Kobe Bryant talk.

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3 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 

  Did anyone see the racist ass New York Times article about how China's omnivorous food markets are why so many pandemics originate in China?  The first few paragraphs say, Chinese people eat a lot of weird shit and it is all sold in the same market.  This is where diseases become pandemics.  Then, after most people stop reading it says, "The exact path of the pathogen has not been established."  That shit is just irresponsible.  It is imperialist bullshit that is essentially, "why can't those Chinese people eat the same things we eat?" 

To be fair, there is science behind pandemics starting out of those food markets due to cross contamination of all the raw meats carrying different viruses that intermingle and the people in those markets not exactly being sanitary.

That said, you're on about the "Exact path" line being buried lower than it should be.

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36 minutes ago, Raziel said:

To be fair, there is science behind pandemics starting out of those food markets due to cross contamination of all the raw meats carrying different viruses that intermingle and the people in those markets not exactly being sanitary.

That said, you're on about the "Exact path" line being buried lower than it should be.

There is a possibility that the Coronavirus came from a food market, but there is no reason to believe that this one has come from this kind of market yet.  It's purely speculation that is couched in racism.  There are literally thousands of places that this disease could have come from.  The vast majority of the world uses food markets that contain raw meats that aren't what we would consider sanitary.  Do you know why European cured meats and cheeses taste better than ours?  That same lack of sanitation.  There is nothing more American than sanitizing the shit out of everything.  By the way there is science behind saying sanitizing the living shit out of everything is the reason why things like staph are so abundant and hard to treat.  Disease pandemics happen, some are from these markets, some are from thousands of other things.  Writing an article assuming that this pandemic is from this specific source is irresponsible journalism.  

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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Also, as a former journalism student, that isn't really their fault.  Their job is to report things like this, it's the police's job to notify the family.  TMZ has no way to know when they notified his family, that isn't their concern.  If TMZ knew enough to report this, the police knew enough to notify the family.  I don't know how that is their issue? 

The real problem with the reporting of this is how many "credible" news organizations were just wildly speculating about who was or was not on the helicopter.  We've really destroyed journalism in a way that is kind of dangerous for our society.  I can't think of a single journalism entity that I think of as trustworthy.  Did anyone see the racist ass New York Times article about how China's omnivorous food markets are why so many pandemics originate in China?  The first few paragraphs say, Chinese people eat a lot of weird shit and it is all sold in the same market.  This is where diseases become pandemics.  Then, after most people stop reading it says, "The exact path of the pathogen has not been established."  That shit is just irresponsible.  It is imperialist bullshit that is essentially, "why can't those Chinese people eat the same things we eat?" OK, back to the Kobe Bryant talk.

There was a time in American journalism where getting it right was more important than getting it first.

Yesterday was a pretty stark reminder that ship has sailed and it's never coming back into port.

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With the obvious caveat that I'm white, and the less obvious caveat that I was never much of a Kobe fan personally, this post from someone named Aly Wang going around Facebook sums up a lot of what I'm feeling. Spoiled for size

"

I think Kobe Bryant meant a lot to many of us Black folks, for complicated reasons.

I also believe he got away with rape.

I also think he was a great dad.

I also think he was one of the greatest players to play the game.

I also think his promotion of Women's Basketball and the WNBA was admirable and forward-thinking.

I also loved his aerial artistry.

I also know that sexual assault survivors will be triggered and traumatized by this public lionization.

I also know that even though I resented his seeming selfishness and political apathy in his early years, he grew into a type of maturity in his personal life and in his philanthropic endeavors that surprised me in a positive way.  As he grew older, he grew bolder in his political visibility in ways that I appreciated (seeing him rock the "I can't breathe" T-Shirt to commemorate Eric Garner's assassination by the police heartened me).

I also don't think that this erases the deep trauma he caused.

I also believe in healing, growth and redemption.

I also cried when I heard he died, because feelings are not political agendas and many of these celebrities are intertwined in our memories in ways that bypass our frontal cortex (I'm looking at you Michael Jackson). I remember "where i was when Kobe, the athlete did [insert great athletic achievement]."

I also know that the ability to compartmentalize is a luxury of the privileged, and as someone who has not been sexually abused I have privilege.

I also know that his child died with him and that she deserved a longer life.

I also mourn for his family.  

I also hold his survivor and other sexual assault survivors in the Light tonight.

I also know that the Basketball fan in me will miss him.

This is hard to process.

Please be gentle, as best you can.

And if this reflection hurts or offends, I also believe that as an imperfect human being (like all of us), I will hurt and harm people I love.  

Because such is life.

And life is very, very short.

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The electronic billboard that recently had an RIP Neil Peart sign today had at least 2 today for Bryant, including the word "Legend" in purple in the Lakers font. 

Not a surprise since these billboards are owned by a Philadelphia area company and he grew up as a teen in the Phiily suburbs. 

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5 hours ago, Raziel said:

Not that I'm going to defend TMZ, but it's really on whoever gave them that info to begin with and less them.  It's not on them to wait until families are notified, it's on the agency conducting the investigation to NOT say who's the victims until everything's properly done.

 

That said, it's a problem with journalism in the age of the 24 hour news cycle where everyone rushes to just be first  so they get the clicks with no regard on who it affects, or half the time if it's even accurate, so a little decorum wouldn't fucking hurt.

Matt Gutman isn't with TMZ. He's the ABC News reporter who said Kobe was on board the helicopter with his four children and his newborn and called it a fact. I'm not going to call for his firing, but he at the very least should be pulled from leading the reporting on this story.

Edited by TheVileOne

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As a criminal defense attorney, I’ll note that a person should never be judged by who they were and what they did on their worst day.

That said, Kobe was never convicted, the alleged complainant never testified under oath, the complainant allegedly had mental problems, and the DNA collected from the complainant came from someone else, not Kobe. 

The conventional wisdom that he got away with rape is wrong. 

And you know I hate the Lakers.

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1 minute ago, Lawful Metal said:

As a criminal defense attorney, I’ll note that a person should never be judged by who they were and what they did on their worst day.

That said, Kobe was never convicted, the alleged complainant never testified under oath, the complainant allegedly had mental problems, and the DNA collected from the complainant came from someone else, not Kobe. 

The conventional wisdom that he got away with rape is wrong. 

And you know I hate the Lakers.

Yeah, these things are so complicated that it's impossible to get past the narrative.  Ray Lewis was never suspected to be the person with the knife, and the dude who did have the knife in that situation was acquitted by means of self-defense.  People believe that Ray Lewis is a murderer and the facts don't matter to them.  I don't know what happened in Colorado, but I do know that none of us know nearly enough to be calling Kobe a rapist the day that he died.  It is kind of like the Jameis Winston allegations.  Pretty much everyone involved from Jameis, the alleged victim, the police, and the school had huge credibility issues that no one actually knows what happened other than Jameis and the alleged victim.  There are going to be people who believe Jameis, and others that believe the alleged victim, but anyone who is acting like they know any facts is lying his or herself.  It sucks, but we don't actually know about any of this stuff.  

I remember talking to my best friend when the last Ben Roethlisberger allegations first hit the news and he said that the NFL needed to just expel him from the league.  I understood where he was coming from, but nothing ever came from those allegations.  If he was found guilty or actually charged, I'd be first in line saying to throw him out of the league until it was sorted out.  That never happened.  We can believe what we want to believe, but I'm not sure we should be calling these people rapists/murderers, or anything else based on allegations that don't have any relevant facts available.  

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Without going too deep, it is worth remembering the victim declined to testify after her name was leaked in the press and she was facing death threats, that Kobe settled out of court with her, and apologized and sorta admitted it. 

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There's an UNCONFIRMED YouTube video that purports to be footage of the helicopter crash. 

I'm pretty sure I speak for the Admin staff when I say, if you post it, it will be your last. 

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Mark Cuban has said Dallas will retire #24 for Bryant. 

I know theres precedent, but retiring a number for a player not on your team is odd to me. 

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In the wake of Kobe Bryant's death, Nike has decided to pull all Kobe-related items from its Nike.com webstore, company sources confirmed to ESPN. For now, searches for Bryant's products provide one result: a purple and yellow Nike gift card bearing the Los Angeles Lakers' logo.

The company is reevaluating its ongoing strategy for releasing Bryant's signature shoe series, and in the interim, it would prefer to limit resellers' stockpiling an inventory of existing products, only to sell them on the secondary market at elevated prices.

from espn.com


 

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Why not continue selling them and give the proceeds to a charity of Kobe's wife's choosing?

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Something I never knew: apparently Kobe grew up as a huge Mets fan and Straw was his favorite player.

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54 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said:

Why not continue selling them and give the proceeds to a charity of Kobe's wife's choosing?

The Kobe line isn't even that popular in the re-sell market. No disrespect meant to the man, but it's not like these were re-selling for huge prices like AJ1s, Kyries, Yeezys, Pharrells, etc.

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