AEW Bash at the Beach - Coral Gables, FL - 1/15/2020

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

I think the thing with Aubrey is because of what she represents. As a woman referee, she easily could be portrayed as timid and fearful to step in, but she's not. She has the authority that a referee is supposed to have in a wrestling match, that being that if you break the rules right in front of her or if you push her, she'll threaten to disqualify you. I like the idea of referees trying to have some kind of control of the match, instead of just being there to count the fall. Otherwise, why are they there?

I saw the chants for her Wednesday as because the Inner Circle had chased off another ref who tried to break up the beatdown on Moxley, but they didn't chase her off. The fans recognized that and chanted for her for a few seconds. I don't see the issue here.

[AxB]

The other thing with Aubrey is, as she pointed out in her Chris Van Vliet interview, most of the AEW refs are twenty-plus years in the business, whereas she's only like five years in. So a whilst they use the other refs in any match with anyone, they tend to use her when someone like Jericho or Cody is the veteran in the ring. And because the veterans are the main eventers, that makes her the big match ref.

It's like on Nitro, if Mike Tenay joins the announcers, you know you're going to see some spectacular moves in the next match. Pro Wrwstling fans are very good at picking up on those subliminal cues that something big is about to happen.

[dokdoyle]

13 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I can't stop them. But to paraphrase Tommy Lee Jones, I cannot sanction their buffoonery. 

I didn't notice anybody cheering for referees on the superior wrestling show this week. Full NXT might be a step up. 

I want the people who buy those to feel great shame. But I realize that in order to reach a point so low, you need to be beyond most shame. 

 Working a couple of Indy's as the Ring Announcer/"General Manager", I was told more then once that I was missing out by not having a 8x10 for sale. "You are the only one that is here every show, people like you, sell a picture" I always said no, because I'm not supposed to be the one selling stuff, but I wondered if I was cutting my nose off and missing out.

[John from Cincinnati]

1 hour ago, dokdoyle said:

 Working a couple of Indy's as the Ring Announcer/"General Manager", I was told more then once that I was missing out by not having a 8x10 for sale. "You are the only one that is here every show, people like you, sell a picture" I always said no, because I'm not supposed to be the one selling stuff, but I wondered if I was cutting my nose off and missing out.

I would only consider buying an 8x10 for an announcer if you’d actually cut your nose off.

[John from Cincinnati]

FWIW, I'm not against Aubrey pushing back against shitheel wrestlers. I vastly prefer that to Rick "I suck so bad at my job that some people are starting to think it's my gimmick" Knox. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by West Newbury Bad Boy

[Krone]

I enjoy the referees having a personality seeing as how they are vital pieces to the show. I can understand the Rick Knox argument and had I only watched American wrestling I'd be a little confused - but having seen a fair amount of NJPW over the past year and a half plus I've come to realize that AEW treats their refs like NJPW. Each one has their own officiating style which is no different than the NFL, NBA, MLB, ect. Whether it's a strike zone, "letting them play" when it get's a little hectic, anything like that - it's part of their discretion to either allow things to go or stop them.

Like when Kenny was attacked by Mox and put through the glass table. A tradition wrestling fan thinks "well why wasn't he DQ'ed" but my line of thinking is more along the lines of "Rick Knox believes Kenny can take the attack and still come back AND doesn't want this big main event to end in a DQ because he understands this is a big show" - similar to bad call ending a game prematurely.

Basically what I'm saying is that I like the referees aren't robots and are allowed to have their own "style" or personality when calling a match. Maybe that's not even what they're going for and I'm interpreting it all wrong but I love it.

[HarryArchieGus]

5 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I think the thing with Aubrey is because of what she represents. As a woman referee, she easily could be portrayed as timid and fearful to step in, but she's not. She has the authority that a referee is supposed to have in a wrestling match, that being that if you break the rules right in front of her or if you push her, she'll threaten to disqualify you. I like the idea of referees trying to have some kind of control of the match, instead of just being there to count the fall. Otherwise, why are they there?

I saw the chants for her Wednesday as because the Inner Circle had chased off another ref who tried to break up the beatdown on Moxley, but they didn't chase her off. The fans recognized that and chanted for her for a few seconds. I don't see the issue here.

That pretty much sums it up.  

I think a two page bitch about fans reacting to a babyface moment of authority by a babyface official with a personality (oh no!) is pretty indicative of the kind of weak criticism that too often permeates these AEW threads.  And it's all very much to do with the fact that there is so much to enjoy so often whilst watching All Elite Wrestling.  It's easy to nitpick and hate.  Criticizing gets more attention than praising.  People want to find a reason to be heard.  I guess you could say the same about the crowd in Miami this past week.  

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[JonnyLaw]

24 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

I enjoy the referees having a personality seeing as how they are vital pieces to the show. I can understand the Rick Knox argument and had I only watched American wrestling I'd be a little confused - but having seen a fair amount of NJPW over the past year and a half plus I've come to realize that AEW treats their refs like NJPW. Each one has their own officiating style which is no different than the NFL, NBA, MLB, ect. Whether it's a strike zone, "letting them play" when it get's a little hectic, anything like that - it's part of their discretion to either allow things to go or stop them.

Like when Kenny was attacked by Mox and put through the glass table. A tradition wrestling fan thinks "well why wasn't he DQ'ed" but my line of thinking is more along the lines of "Rick Knox believes Kenny can take the attack and still come back AND doesn't want this big main event to end in a DQ because he understands this is a big show" - similar to bad call ending a game prematurely.

Basically what I'm saying is that I like the referees aren't robots and are allowed to have their own "style" or personality when calling a match. Maybe that's not even what they're going for and I'm interpreting it all wrong but I love it.

My response would be there is (or should be) a difference between discretion to interpret the rules and discretion in whether to even enforce the rules.

[John from Cincinnati]

21 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I think a two page bitch about fans reacting to a babyface moment of authority by a babyface official with a personality (oh no!) is pretty indicative of the kind of weak criticism that too often permeates these AEW threads.  

This is a patently ridiculous thing to say. Calling attention to dipshit fan behavior isn't out of bounds because it's AEW. Want to see weak posts that barely meet the threshold of being criticism? Go check out some old Raw threads where a certain someone would only chime in to remark on how glad they were to be watching Seinfeld or the Yankees game, offering no comment regarding the actual show (fuck am I glad that behaviour has mostly stopped). I've seen talk in the NWA thread about their shitty fans trying to get themselves over because it's a small room, and it's not admonished as weak criticism there. AEW is the only sacred cow where bringing something like this up is coloured as undue. You're talking nonsense.

Quote

Criticizing gets more attention than praising.

Rather, criticism generates more discussion than praise. There's only so much that can be said about Darby Allin when we're almost unanimously crediting him on another great performance. 

[Jenalysis]

51 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

That pretty much sums it up.  

I think a two page bitch about fans reacting to a babyface moment of authority by a babyface official with a personality (oh no!) is pretty indicative of the kind of weak criticism that too often permeates these AEW threads.  And it's all very much to do with the fact that there is so much to enjoy so often whilst watching All Elite Wrestling.  It's easy to nitpick and hate.  Criticizing gets more attention than praising.  People want to find a reason to be heard.  I guess you could say the same about the crowd in Miami this past week.  

 

Usually this sort of criticism is a good sign- it's a sign folks are invested enough to criticize , and are liking the big picture enough to want the smaller stuff to make the big stuff better.

It would be a bad thing if AEW was being ignored the way ROH is.

 

[John from Cincinnati]

11 minutes ago, alstein said:

Usually this sort of criticism is a good sign- it's a sign folks are invested enough to criticize , and are liking the big picture enough to want the smaller stuff to make the big stuff better.

It would be a bad thing if AEW was being ignored the way ROH is.

The Raw thread this week topped out at two pages. I see this discussion as an absolute win. You're welcome. 

[AxB]

15 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

The Raw thread this week topped out at two pages. I see this discussion as an absolute win. You're welcome. 

Chavo Classic was better.

[Wyld Samurai]

Fans looking to go over was seen way back in the 80s with the NWA studio show. The frat boys dressing up and pretending they're Horsemen is a prime example. The ECW Arena / Philly crowd Faithful being another sect. Hawaiian Shirt Guy, Faith No More Guy, etc... oh and I forgot about the sisters in the WWF at the Garden.

The select few in this thread that complain about Aubrey having fan support probably had no quarrel in the 90s when all you would hear in ECW regarding female acts was "Show your tits!", and "She's got herpes!".

Edited January 19, 2020 by Wyld Samurai

[Jiji]

Right. Ad hominem.

[John from Cincinnati]

11 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

The select few in this thread that complain about Aubrey having fan support probably had no quarrel in the 90s when all you would hear in ECW regarding female acts was "Show your tits!", and "She's got herpes!".

Do you have anything you'd like to ask? Or do you feel like wild assumptions about what people thought about things in the '90s is enough to make your point? Would you like a comprehensive list of my opinions regarding dipshit behavior from three decades ago that wouldn't fly today? Spoiler alert: There'll be a lot of dated Monica Lewinksy jokes. 

 

 

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Fans looking to go over was seen way back in the 80s with the NWA studio show. The frat boys dressing up and pretending they're Horsemen is a prime example. The ECW Arena / Philly crowd Faithful being another sect. Hawaiian Shirt Guy, Faith No More Guy, etc... oh and I forgot about the sisters in the WWF at the Garden.

The select few in this thread that complain about Aubrey having fan support probably had no quarrel in the 90s when all you would hear in ECW regarding female acts was "Show your tits!", and "She's got herpes!".

Many, those of us on here and RSPW anyway, referred to those ECW fans as mutants for a reason.

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

I guess I should clarify, I don't know why fans cheering for a referee trying to break up beatdowns or stop interference is a bad thing. If anything it shows they're engaged in the action. I didn't see the chants for Aubrey as the crowd cheering a referee over the wrestlers, but as being happy the beatdown was over and cheering for the first person who actually was able to stop it. If AEW sees it as being a problem, then I suspect they'll send wrestlers to break up brawls instead of the referees in the future.

I also disagree that Aubrey has anything that she needs to tone down. As I mentioned, I like that she's an official that actually attempts to show some form of control of the match instead of being there just to count the fall. I also like that AEW has referees that have unique personalities and styles instead of being cookie cutter and nameless. It's a very small part of the presentation, but it makes a big difference, and I think the fact that it makes such a difference is why we've had quite a conversation over seconds of chanting.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

It’s actually a really really good thing that a babyface ref is getting noticed, and is impossible to dislike. Because as soon as the heel uses the pulling the ref in front of a clothesline, or the pulls the ref out of the ring that takes out the official, and they focus on it, then fans will act negative towards the heel. Which in turn gets the fans behind the babyface wrestler. It’s such an easy pull to get heat.

Edited January 19, 2020 by LoneWolf&Subs

[John from Cincinnati]

18 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I didn't see the chants for Aubrey as the crowd cheering a referee over the wrestlers, but as being happy the beatdown was over and cheering for the first person who actually was able to stop it. 

I would characterize this as a charitable reading. Referees break things up all the time. Aubrey being the only one with a cult following among AEW audience strikes me as odd.

[MORELOCK]

1 hour ago, Wyld Samurai said:

The select few in this thread that complain about Aubrey having fan support probably had no quarrel in the 90s when all you would hear in ECW regarding female acts was "Show your tits!", and "She's got herpes!".

 

Nah.

The example I think of whenever people roll out "let people chant what they want to" is the post-Mania RAW where people were chanting "You suck _____" to various women in the ring. Fuck the people who chanted that and the money they paid to do so. Sometimes people need to stop chanting. You're free to disagree with me about that, but I think you and Craig can find it in your hearts to do so without personally attacking me.

[John from Cincinnati]

The person who really surprises me here is Jericho. I once heard him say on his podcast (I wish I could remember which episode) that he gave a referee shit for having too dark a tan and distracting from the wrestlers, which is an insane thing to say. Now his matches are mostly reffed by the official who's getting her name chanted by the fans. 

That must have been some tan. If I can find a picture, I'll send it to Eric Bischoff and see if it's good enough to go over Hogan. 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I would characterize this as a charitable reading. Referees break things up all the time. Aubrey being the only one with a cult following among AEW audience strikes me as odd.

The only way we'll know for sure is if someone else is the first to get in and interrupt a beatdown instead of getting chased off.

I'd also be fine if it's the other way and Aubrey has a cult following, though. Like I said, I prefer the different personalities amongst the AEW referees.

[Web Conn]

The set was fucking awesome.

The Women's tag wasn't awful. I don't know if they have a clear idea of what The Nightmare Collective is yet. Kong's physical limitations may become a problem but if they could bring Aja Kong in have her replace Awesome Kong, turn Kong face build Kong vs Kong have the big match Awesome wins but is taken out at ringside by Aja taken out on a stretcher then goes off and films the last season of GLOW.

The other matches were awesome as fuck. I really loved to the 4 way tag. All four teams busted their asses off. Orange Cassidy is OVER dude. Adam Page is gonna turn on Kenny and the Bucks at some point there was some subtle stuff in that match, Pages look of dejection when Matt tagged in Kenny and not him, Page tagging himself in at Matt's expense and stealing the win for example are all building blocks for the future turn. I'm curios if Page and Kenny win next week or not. The dynamic during the SoCal 

It was really cool to see DDP wrestle. 63 years old dove off the top rope. Cornette is gonna have an aneurysm over it. QT Marshall continues to be low key badass. MJF is gonna be a mega star. He has all the makings of a star. He's beating Cody. Moxley and Guevara was awesome. That eye spike angle was so Crockett i loved it. AEW is good at updating old school wrestling angles with a contemporary twist, in the sense that it is at once fresh but also familiar.  

Cody's promo was great. He's on another level dude his promo game has been out the park. He's the folk hero of AEW he's so loved. Chicago is gonna go ape shit when MJF wins. I do think they made a mistake not having Warlord on an undefeated streak killing people in 30 seconds, build him up as an unstoppable force give the cage match some context cuz right now Wardlow is really just buff guy wearing a suit with a man bun to the viewing audience. If Cody was getting into the cage with a bid dude who had been until then unstoppable and tearing through everyone I think there'd be a little more buzz to the match.

I'd be ok with Raven being revealed as The Exalted One. I'd love to see The Fallen Angle come back or even Broken Matt in AEW (actually I really hope that happens) but I think Raven may be the best leader for The Dark Order. Daniels joining The Dark Order I'd be interested in, but maybe as the heater or Second in Command for Raven, Raven shouldn't get physical, his buddy is shot and he's older he shouldn't be bumping but he can still talk, have Daniels do his bidding along with Stu and Uno. Plus Raven as the leader of a band of sadistic misfits is his whole M.O.

Matt should just be Broken Matt no need to Disney's Doug it like WWE did. Broken Matt and Dr Luther should have a program. A hip toss into the Lake of reincarnation and boom we have Lenny St Clair, locker room chiropractor.

Darby Allin is really over. The crowd chanted Darby as he walked out. He does need some big wins on Dynamite but he's on his way to be being something Huge. PAC is great as a mean spirited heel. He plays it so well, he wins more often then not and hasn't gotten title shot yet I'd be pissed off too. I've been loving the long term booking off AEW, it's refreshing WWE has been booking on the fly for so long and it's been evident on TV. That Time Limit back in October is paying off with that match next week. Of course Moxley is blind in one eye so Moxley will be fighting at a deficient and I'm sure PAC will target that eye. 

 

[Jiji]

Yeah, I would rather have refs with distinct personalities to what WWE does but I just thought it odd. Not angle breaking but it did show to me that it wasn't probably as impactful as hoped. That we have spent a couple of pages talking about it says that A) fans are engaged with AEW and B) it must've been a pretty good show for this to be a major talking point.

I love AEW and what it represents but I think there are some things they could pretty easily improve. I'm not a fan of people being shut down when they have criticism unless it is not coming from an honest place, which has been the case the odd time. I don't think this is one of those occasions.

Next week should be such a weird, unique experience. I saw clips of that Elite tag match from last year's cruise and the atmosphere wasn't great IIRC. Dailymotion isn't working for me at the moment so I can't go back and verify.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Oyaji

[John from Cincinnati]

I wouldn't even call it a major talking point. It's just generating more chit chat than the things that everyone sees as acceptable targets of criticism because there are only so many ways we can say the Brandi Rhodes thing is terrible. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by West Newbury Bad Boy