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AEW Bash at the Beach - Coral Gables, FL - 1/15/2020


Dolfan in NYC

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6 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

It's funny you bring this up because I've been thinking about the ref dynamics. The shorter bald ref (Bryce? Mike Posey?), for instance, hasn't backed down from Pentagon threatening him in a few matches and has even gotten in his face back and that does Penta a huge disservice since he's supposed to be a wild, arm-breaking psycho prize fighter. Aubrey can be the forceful one, I don't mind that, but if the refs are going to have personalities then she should be the only one. Rick Knox is the one who's loose with the rules hence the lack of tags and unlimited double teams in his matches. Earl Hebner is the one selling shirts in the parking lot. Everyone has their role. But I agree, ultimately they're not supposed to take attention away from the wrestlers so maybe they should reign that stuff in.

The cynic in me thinks this is in response to WWE officials not being allowed to show any type of character at all.

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Zero reason for fans to be chanting for refs, ever. If that's taking place, Aubrey needs to reign her shit in and leave the idiots to chant "we are awesome" or whatever dumb bullshit they're trying to get themselves over with.

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Much like the match style I spoke of in the main thread, there is also a balance for referees too. WCW had great refs that were animated and had limited personalities but generally avoided the Hebner/Young spot where they would chastise the heel and kick their hands off ropes and shit. 

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20 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Zero reason for fans to be chanting for refs, ever. If that's taking place, Aubrey needs to reign her shit in and leave the idiots to chant "we are awesome" or whatever dumb bullshit they're trying to get themselves over with.

Let them cheer for who they want. 

Aubrey is a female referee for men's wrestling. Just by the law of human sexuality she has to work 150% harder to show she cant be pushed around. The fans recognize that and have put her over.

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1 hour ago, Godfrey said:

It's funny you bring this up because I've been thinking about the ref dynamics. The shorter bald ref (Bryce? Mike Posey?), for instance, hasn't backed down from Pentagon threatening him in a few matches and has even gotten in his face back and that does Penta a huge disservice since he's supposed to be a wild, arm-breaking psycho prize fighter. Aubrey can be the forceful one, I don't mind that, but if the refs are going to have personalities then she should be the only one. Rick Knox is the one who's loose with the rules hence the lack of tags and unlimited double teams in his matches. Earl Hebner is the one selling shirts in the parking lot. Everyone has their role. But I agree, ultimately they're not supposed to take attention away from the wrestlers so maybe they should reign that stuff in.

They've also put over on commentary that the different refs have different match specialties with Aubrey always refing the title matches and Knox? being the "tag match ref specialist". For a promotion trying to be a major player and put on a quality product, refs having actual personalities and notable characteristics isn't exactly a huge deal.

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1 hour ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Aubrey is a female referee for men's wrestling. Just by the law of human sexuality she has to work 150% harder to show she cant be pushed around. The fans recognize that and have put her over.

 

If she's getting over, she isn't doing her job. The wrestlers are supposed to be the ones getting over. The referees are there to get the matches over, not themselves. 

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You do realise this is the company where even the ring announcer has merch, right? Just because something has always been done one way, doesn't mean it always has to be done that way. Besides which, who is the Tommy Young spot supposed to get over, Young or Ric Flair?

The thing about the refereeing is, before Dynamite started and AEW was just a PPV company that ran 4 shows in a few months, they were constantly putting over how the refs were doing a great job (because there were no bullshit finishes on the shows). But since TV started, they have started doing referee manipulation spots, outside interference behind the ref's back (sometimes taking ages to set it up Penelope Ford) and guys cheating and not getting DQ'ed in matches that theoretically could end by DQ. So now they aren't talking about how good the refs are any more, except Aubrey seems to be the more protected ref, so she's getting over as the toughest referee.

If one ref starts being ultra strict and DQing everyone, doing super fast five counts and that, they might get over as a heel. Like how the fans booed Pac vs Mox going to a draw ages ago.

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Since you bastards are having a conniption, I want Referee Aubrey to go full Sable overshadow and come out to ref a match with pasties on.

I want everyone to Google "Steve Willis boxing" and have fun. Until her antics start going viral across the entire internet, I don't want to hear anyone bitching.

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37 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

 

If she's getting over, she isn't doing her job. The wrestlers are supposed to be the ones getting over. The referees are there to get the matches over, not themselves. 

She's the worst ref since Kyohei Wada, I tell ya. Fuck's sake.

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4 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Let them cheer for who they want. 

I can't stop them. But to paraphrase Tommy Lee Jones, I cannot sanction their buffoonery. 

4 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Lets start complaining when we have a Red Shoes or a Tirantes on our hands, and when the fans go full NXT. 

I didn't notice anybody cheering for referees on the superior wrestling show this week. Full NXT might be a step up. 

3 hours ago, AxB said:

You do realise this is the company where even the ring announcer has merch, right?

I want the people who buy those to feel great shame. But I realize that in order to reach a point so low, you need to be beyond most shame. 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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26 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I didn't notice anybody cheering for referees on the superior wrestling show this week.

Didn't know you watched MLW.

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The same people who get annoyed when the crowd "goes into business for themselves" or chants for referees or whatever are the same people that likely get upset about things like heels being cheered and faces being booed. I've got no time for that kind of nonsense. They paid money to attend the event, as long as they aren't hurting anyone physically or emotionally - do what you want, have fun. If you get a kick out of chanting for Aubrey Edwards, go for it. If you mark out and chant and cheer when Justin Roberts does his Cena intro for Moxley, more power to you. If you want to cheer for MJF because you hate Cody, be my guest. Fans don't have a role to play in the product presented to us on television beyond reacting to what they see, for better or for worse. If that effects booking plans, great, I say listen to the fans, I'm not like some people on here who are dead set against listening to the fans and rather see a company execute their vision, paying customers' reactions be damned.

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35 minutes ago, Craig H said:

My rule of thumb is that if it annoys or pisses off MORELOCK then it's working.

You fucking stick in the mud wet blanket motherfucker.

 

9 minutes ago, Casey said:

The same people who get annoyed when the crowd "goes into business for themselves" or chants for referees or whatever are the same people that likely get upset about things like heels being cheered and faces being booed. I've got no time for that kind of nonsense. They paid money to attend the event, as long as they aren't hurting anyone physically or emotionally - do what you want, have fun. If you get a kick out of chanting for Aubrey Edwards, go for it. If you mark out and chant and cheer when Justin Roberts does his Cena intro for Moxley, more power to you. If you want to cheer for MJF because you hate Cody, be my guest. Fans don't have a role to play in the product presented to us on television beyond reacting to what they see, for better or for worse. If that effects booking plans, great, I say listen to the fans, I'm not like some people on here who are dead set against listening to the fans and rather see a company execute their vision, paying customers' reactions be damned.

 

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I'm not trying to shit on anyone, either. @West Newbury Bad Boy and @MORELOCK are among my favorite members of this board, but I just don't agree with them on this. Fan chants and reactions have never played into whether or not I actively enjoy a show or not (although, the only reason I watch the RAW after WrestleMania is BECAUSE of the fans, really). I just can't imagine myself caring about something like that. If someone does, then fair enough, but it's always taken a back seat to other things that I'd have complaints about when I'm watching a WWE show or NXT or AEW.

However, I will say the only time I can remember being actively pissed off when fans have chanted something was a women's match on RAW, I believe, where all they did was chant for the women's husbands/boyfriends and I wanna say it was Nikki Bella they did a "You Suck Cena" chant towards.

On the flipside, though - the beach ball thing from a few years ago that people were hating on. I never cared about that. To me, it was the same as chanting for CM Punk during a boring segment. It's the audience showing their disdain for what's going on. But, hey, it did lead to Cesaro ripping apart the ball, so there's that.

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For me, wrestling is about emotion first and foremost. If people are sitting on their hands when they're supposed to be engaged, something has gone wrong. Either the wrestlers have failed, the booker has failed, or the fans have failed. If they're running a big angle where Moxley is supposed to be maimed by the Inner Circle and the crowd is mostly invested in a referee, that's not a good look. And I liked the angle. Refs should have a personality but they shouldn't be the centre of attention. I don't like Tommy Young when he did that shit, can't stand Hebner, Red Shoes drives me nuts, and modern Kyohei is awful. 

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I thought the crowd seemed into the angle. It's Saturday and I didn't even notice the crowd was chanting for Aubrey until, what, an hour ago, when it was brought up. I'll have to go back and watch it, but I don't think it's like they were sitting on their hands for the entire thing until Aubrey showed up, then shut up again when she left. She's someone the crowd actually likes, they chanted for her when she appeared, but before and after that, the crowd was still very much into the angle.

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That's certainly fair and sorry if I implied they were. I should have made it clear I went from the general to specific. They were into it but they weren't hot. A truly hooked crowd doesn't go wild for the ref. I like Aubrey. She's from my area and I saw her at the local indie a bunch. I've heard she's a great person and she's very talented. I just think it would be wise if referees didn't do the finger wagging and backing up heels spot.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

My rule of thumb is that if it annoys or pisses off MORELOCK then it's working.

You fucking stick in the mud wet blanket motherfucker.

MORELOCK is generally okay. If that makes me a stick in the mud, happy to be one. Most of the time.

1 hour ago, AxB said:

Didn't know you watched MLW.

On and off. With the NWA, it makes good background noise when I get a backlog of it and there are some people there I like a lot. Have I missed a bunch more cool fireball spots? 

49 minutes ago, Casey said:

I'm not trying to shit on anyone, either. @West Newbury Bad Boy and @MORELOCK are among my favorite members of this board, but I just don't agree with them on this. Fan chants and reactions have never played into whether or not I actively enjoy a show or not (although, the only reason I watch the RAW after WrestleMania is BECAUSE of the fans, really). I just can't imagine myself caring about something like that. If someone does, then fair enough, but it's always taken a back seat to other things that I'd have complaints about when I'm watching a WWE show or NXT or AEW.

This is an A+ reasonable post. For the record, the Aubrey chants don't greatly affect my opinion of Dynamite. On the whole, I enjoy Dynamite. But I felt it was worthy of discussion, so into my keyboard it went.

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Referees SHOULD scold heels for dastardly tactics like the ones Inner Circle engaged in. And the more reprehensible the actions, the larger the scolding should be. It's not Aubrey's fault the fans chose to chant for her(albeit, VERY briefly). 

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I love that AEW crowds and NXT crowds (most of the time) are fucking lit. I love it. They're active and engaged, they're having fun, they're enjoying themselves, and it's such a fucking breath of fresh air compared to watching Raw, SD, and PPVs and seeing fans just completely beat down and dejected to the point where even their shows in Chicago don't sell out anymore and those crowds are quiet. That is completely sad.

So if these fans want to feel themselves and cheer for someone like Aubrey then it doesn't bother me in the least bit. I'll never understand the bitching about something as small as cheering for a ref because the crowd is that much into what they're watching. Not only that, but they chanted for Aubrey for what was seconds.

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11 hours ago, Craig H said:

My rule of thumb is that if it annoys or pisses off MORELOCK then it's working.

You fucking stick in the mud wet blanket motherfucker.


I'm not sure that someone who has been shitting on every single WWE show in every single WWE thread for at least a decade has any room to throw that particular stone. You attacked Greggulator until he stopped posting in the RAW threads, solely because he was positively reviewing shows. I believe "pumping sunshine" was your expression. There seems to be a lot of that sort of thing in the AEW threads, too, but I'm not going to join in with the "best show and promotion EVER" talk. I can see flaws in the presentation, so I'm going to point them out. And it isn't out of anger, either - I genuinely want AEW to put on better shows so I can be more entertained.

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