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JANUARY 2020 Wrestling Discussion


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16 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

Is Renee on a Fox contract like Punk or is hers still considered WWE?  

Someone said (in this thread?) She has an office contract. But I could see having a deal with Fox too. 

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Back in my day, wrestlers helped take down the ring and got a cold hot dog from the concession stand (if they were lucky), and they LIKED IT!

Some of the lower-card guys' broken bodies were used for kindling by the promoter if the winter was particularly harsh, and they LIKED IT!

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So much bullshit goes on in wrestling and the mainstream doesn't care because hey, it's just oiled up steroid freaks fake fighting in their underwear. It's a joke, right?  It's like the entire concept of wrestling is laughable so there's no way there are any kind of human consequences at play here.

If players in a major sport were treated the way wrestlers are, we'd have congressional hearings like we did when the SANCTITY~! of baseball was threatened by guys using PEDs.  The horror!  A few tainted records in America's Pastime is more important than a multibillion dollar company dodging labor laws to fuck guys out of money and enforce bad contracts. 

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2 hours ago, Log said:

Some of the lower-card guys' broken bodies were used for kindling by the promoter if the winter was particularly harsh, and they LIKED IT!

"Hey boss, it's cold back here, can we each get a piece of Flaming Wrestler?"

"NO. The Flaming Wrestler is for top talent. And no bottled water either."

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5 hours ago, hammerva said:

Well it doesn't help Gabe's argument when basically his boss Triple H is doing radio shows telling people that we are only going to kill indies that have bad rings (which has happened in EVOLVE a lot of times) and doesn't pay their workers in the right way.   Unfortunately what Gabe is doing is being done all over the indies paying guys on "exposure".    

This ties into another problem with these as well, though: If you pay the lower-tier workers too much on exposure, eventually you're going to insulate the business further. There's always got to be a little bit of "bet on yourself" in wrestling to say "okay. I'll take this lesser amount or work for free for this match to get my foot in the door so I can get some regular bookings and go further."

By contrast, if you're telling a big company "you MUST pay at least this much to every worker on the card", then for those low spots, the question becomes "do I take a chance on this unknown, or do I bring in this bigger name who I know for a fact will be worth the money?" End result, less people break into the business.

Same weakness for the unions- unionized wrestling works, but it will price the small promotions out of existence. Wait, did I say "small promotions"? I meant "any promotion that is not WWE, AEW, Impact, and ROH- the four promotions owned by big conglomerates who can pay what a union would demand." Hope you enjoyed the late 2000s developmental era where they ignored top indie talent in favor of finding a person who looked like a model, taught them how to pull their punches and maybe one nice move for a finisher, and sent them on TV, because those are the only people breaking in now.

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How has WWE always flown under the radar?  Is it because it's carny shit and nobody cares?  Of course now they have friends in high places but imagine all the PR disasters from Vince's trial to the Benoit stuff to concussions to whatever..   there's always something,  Saudi Arabia.  

They get called out from time to time but nothing ever really changes, only slightly.  They still continue to treat their "independent contractors" like crash test dummies and provide no medical insurance..    it's amazing how Vince can just do whatever the hell he wants for 40 years.  Nobody cares. 

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It's absolutely because it's carny shit and nobody cares. In the past, the stigma carried by pro wrestling was such that any politician or legal/law enforcement official trying to build any momentum on "cleaning up the business" would get laughed at and blown off, same as with sex work or travelling carnivals. The public perception there has changed, but the legal and political perception still hasn't; it doesn't make sense to those types to blow any goodwill or political capital on a "fake sport" followed by "rubes."

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3 hours ago, w. josh said:

It's absolutely because it's carny shit and nobody cares. In the past, the stigma carried by pro wrestling was such that any politician or legal/law enforcement official trying to build any momentum on "cleaning up the business" would get laughed at and blown off, same as with sex work or travelling carnivals. The public perception there has changed, but the legal and political perception still hasn't; it doesn't make sense to those types to blow any goodwill or political capital on a "fake sport" followed by "rubes."

It weird when you think about the fact that Vince has wanted Wrestling or at least his promotion to be treated serious by the Sports or Entertainment industry depending on the week that if it was and the Media did care about the Industry then they'd force him to change his business practices and cover the Wrestlers like these major sports leagues and entertainment agencies cover their talent.

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It’s also because the wrestlers keep lining up to be in that shitty situation. In fact, that shitty situation is their life-long dream! You don’t like it? There’s a hundred guys/gals dying to be in your place. 

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5 hours ago, Rehabilitated Rick said:

Call me an asshole but David Benoit should stay a million miles away from the pro wrestling business. Listening to the first few minutes, he seems to have a good gig already on the oil fields. Make your money kid and go start a family. 

Fuck that. His gimmick is a combination of New Generation real life occupation nonsense mixed with Bret Hart heel/face dynamic. He's a man working hard for his family on the oil fields, hated in liberal territories and adored in conservative areas. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLYE GO WRONG.

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1 minute ago, Oyaji said:

Fuck that. His gimmick is a combination of New Generation real life occupation nonsense mixed with Bret Hart heel/face dynamic. He's a man working hard for his family on the oil fields, hated in liberal territories and adored in conservative areas. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLYE GO WRONG.

I wanna throw a pair of truck nuts at you. 

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50 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

It weird when you think about the fact that Vince has wanted Wrestling or at least his promotion to be treated serious by the Sports or Entertainment industry depending on the week that if it was and the Media did care about the Industry then they'd force him to change his business practices and cover the Wrestlers like these major sports leagues and entertainment agencies cover their talent.

This is true,  if people started caring then he'd have to change so he's actually in the best possible position.  He makes tons of money, does what he wants and nobody cares. 

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Remember when they had those Capitol Hill hearings after Benoit and Vince was like "my rehab program's just for good PR lol" and Dixie Carter said TNA sells action figures not for kids, but for people "like that man from the 40 year old Virgin?" What the hell even ended up happening with that? I soured for a couple years after so I'm not sure how it panned out

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All these probes and inquiries aside, surely some lawyer would be able to make a potentially huge and easy case out of litigating their absurd definition of an independent contractor, right? 

I mean, they'd need clients to wanna die WWE but it's gotta be an extremely valid case. 

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3 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Fuck that. His gimmick is a combination of New Generation real life occupation nonsense mixed with Bret Hart heel/face dynamic. He's a man working hard for his family on the oil fields, hated in liberal territories and adored in conservative areas. NOTHING COULD POSSIBLYE GO WRONG.

"Chris Benoit Jr." + "Wexit gimmick" = Maybe the absolute worst possible combination on earth. It's so theoretically awful that actually, I've come around and am kinda impressed with it. 

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I'm thinking David Benoit isn't going to WWE as Chris Benoit Jr. Being as both the phrase "Chris Benoit" and the phrase "Junior" are banned from the company.

Looking at him, he's 27 already and whilst he said he's been working out and eating right recently, he must have just started, because he doesn't look like a guy who lifts. If you looked at a still from the video, you would assume Van Vliet was the aspiring Wrestler of the two. It's not like Thomas & Mark Billington starting their pro careers at 15 & 17, or Harry Smith (who was also 15; He's almost a twenty year pro already). Not many people who want to get into wrestling but wait until they're nearly 30, they aren't making it. Except DDP.

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28 minutes ago, Casey said:

The list of wrestlers who started their careers “late” has some pretty recognizable names on it, though.

30 minutes ago, Casey said:

The list of wrestlers who started their careers “late” has some pretty recognizable names on it, though.

 

If not DDP then definitely Batista as the latecomer gone furthest, no? 

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