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JANUARY 2020 Wrestling Discussion


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25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Dumbass, they already go back and  re edit shows for little and legal reasons. All the shows from the past on the network aren't in original form. If you go out of your way to replace copyrighted  licensed music, remove commercial,  edit out certain segments out of every shows, etc., Chris Benoit can be gone from the network.

Poor DDP is on 500 WCW shows from the early 90s till their demise and Self High Five is not on one show on the network. If you're going to that level of trouble to not piss off the folks who own the publishing rights to Smells Like Teen Spirit, erasing a murderer would be slightly more important.?


It isn't about who is or isn't pissed off - the music is edited because it could potentially cost them millions of dollars. Swapping out music also doesn't irreparably alter 12 years of storylines spread across the most popular years in the history of both major companies. There isn't much point in putting old shows up on the network at all if they are restricted to that degree.

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3 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


It isn't about who is or isn't pissed off - the music is edited because it could potentially cost them millions of dollars. Swapping out music also doesn't irreparably alter 12 years of storylines spread across the most popular years in the history of both major companies. There isn't much point in putting old shows up on the network at all if they are restricted to that degree.

A MOTHERFUCKER KILLED TWO PEOPLE AND HUNG HIMSELF! FUCK YOUR STORYLINES!

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Also - the majority of people w/ WWE network watch the WWE network for live programming and not these old shows. I know I'm out of the loop on WWE but I am going to hazard a guess and say that Benoit has nothing to do at all with any current storylines in WWE/NXT/NXT UK/205 Live. Unless there are a whole bunch of wrestling fans who were under a rock for several years, didn't have access to the interwebs, or who studiously go through every show in modern wrestling history chronologically, I don't think past storylines being on the network are that important especially when Google and Youtube are right there for further research.

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1 hour ago, Pete said:

I've always been partial to "Massa Saito."

Now I need to see a guy use that name with the gimmick of being a Japanese plantation owner.

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4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Also - the majority of people w/ WWE network watch the WWE network for live programming and not these old shows. I know I'm out of the loop on WWE but I am going to hazard a guess and say that Benoit has nothing to do at all with any current storylines in WWE/NXT/NXT UK/205 Live. Unless there are a whole bunch of wrestling fans who were under a rock for several years, didn't have access to the interwebs, or who studiously go through every show in modern wrestling history chronologically, I don't think past storylines being on the network are that important especially when Google and Youtube are right there for further research.


The board is full of people that do this, so if you're trying to sell the idea that it's not important, you might be in the wrong place.

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1 minute ago, MORELOCK said:


The board is full of people that do this, so if you're trying to sell the idea that it's not important, you might be in the wrong place.

Dude with the way the network number is collapsing, these few motherfuckers on the board will be the only ones watching the WWE network. That's a terrible fucking argument.

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Since we don't seem to have a dedicated social media thread anymore - "John Cena" is trending on Canadian twitter and I don't know why. Clicking on it didn't help much. Apparently he said some positive things about "BTS"? What's BTS?

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Just now, tbarrie said:

Since we don't seem to have a dedicated social media thread anymore - "John Cena" is trending on Canadian twitter and I don't know why. Clicking on it didn't help much. Apparently he said some positive things about "BTS"? What's BTS?

K POP BABY!

If something is trending for unknown reasons, it's either black Twitter (as a member I can say this) or K Pop related. There you go.

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I don't know the answers to these things personally. My gut says that you can't watch Benoit wrestle without thinking about what he did. And I don't know that thinking about the tragedy is a bad thing. 

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3 minutes ago, Goodear said:

I don't know the answers to these things personally. My gut says that you can't watch Benoit wrestle without thinking about what he did. And I don't know that thinking about the tragedy is a bad thing. 

My thing isn't necessarily if people WANT to watch his matches now. It's the fact that they outright (and was the right thing to do) erased him from history, and then flash forward to the network launch where it is OPERATION SUPER PROFIT. They actively made the decision to keep him there and it definitely wasn't OH STORYLINE PURPOSES or satisfying completist wrestling fans. Fucking Jim Fullington and Jerome Young have all their character aura removed because Enter Sandman and Natural Born Killaz can't be played on the network and you have to listen to generic ass music for several minutes. With that said, that's not as important as someone killing somebody in real life. WWE is not a mom and pop operation straining for cash. They can take him off in a day.

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I feel like you are mixing arguments for unclear reasons.  Let me see if I can steel man you.

A) Chris Benoit should be erased from the WWE Network because he murdered his family. 

B) WWE not removing him from the WWE Network means they are trying to generate profits from him being on those shows.

C) If they can overdub licensed music from ECW, or WCW they can certainly cut out entire segments where Benoit appeared. 

C is where you lose me.  I don't think anyone believes that WWE is unable to delete segments from the network, just unwilling since Benoit is all over three different promotions including several title matches, main events,  storylines, and factions. I don't think bringing up C helps your argument even if I agree with points A and B.

 

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NJPW World is pretty light on stuff from the early 90s, isn't it? I'm guessing there's no Benoit matches there. The Super J Cup third stage was actually the first one now.

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2 hours ago, Goodear said:

C) If they can overdub licensed music from ECW, or WCW they can certainly cut out entire segments where Benoit appeared. 

C is where you lose me.  I don't think anyone believes that WWE is unable to delete segments from the network, just unwilling since Benoit is all over three different promotions including several title matches, main events,  storylines, and factions. I don't think bringing up C helps your argument even if I agree with points A and B.

 

No, that is to what MORELOCK is talking about and the whole it's just too much work/unwilling part.

Imagine this: If Paul Levesque was on a conference call and some mainstream, super reputable media outlet made a giant fuss over Chris being on the network, how much of a PR nightmare disaster would occur if Paul thinking on his feet responded with "We cannot possibly remove Chris Benoit from the WWE Network because he is too critical to past wrestling storylines"? If you thought he caught hell over the Paige joke recently....OH BABY you ain't seen nothing yet. Levesque would have to resign and the whole WWE public relations department would quit (partly out of revolt). A Dumpster Fire thread because of that would be made here.

Benoit being on the network was clearly some internal memo shit. As long as people don't say anything....we won't say anything. If something had happened PR related in the past several years when improving the network number is such a big deal, they would have put two or three interns on it and he would have vanished like he was never there in the first place inside of 48-72 hours max. It's not that they are making money hand over fist with Chris Benoit matches, but they knew when they launched the network this dude ain't in just five or six different shows. He is all over the place, but they still very much could remove him from the network. They made the decision not to do it for financial purposes. End of story. Whether you make 5 dollars or 500,000 dollars, that's still profiting.

 

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

K POP BABY!

If something is trending for unknown reasons, it's either black Twitter (as a member I can say this) or K Pop related. There you go.

You may be underestimating how old I am. What's "K Pop"?

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2 hours ago, Goodear said:

I don't know the answers to these things personally. My gut says that you can't watch Benoit wrestle without thinking about what he did. And I don't know that thinking about the tragedy is a bad thing. 

A weird thing I find with the Network is that I'm perfectly ok watching WCW and ECW stuff from him, but once the Radicalz jump to the WWF I go into "holy shit that guy's a psycho murderer" mode and fast forward. Not for any moral reason or blame on WWE, it's completely subconscious, I just find it interesting and don't know what it says about me.

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Just to play devil's advocate: search results for "Benoit" on the WWE Network: 0, search results for "Bruiser Bedlam": 4 matches and 13 further segments, search results for "Invaders": 3 matches and I don't think I have to tell you the results for "Jimmy Snuka". They removed Benoit from the search index / directly naming him in the title as that might get picked up by other media and get them into trouble (and no serious news outlet will have any idea who Bruiser Bedlam was or Jose Gonzales is and with Snuka they can always play the "we was not convicted" card), they don't think (or rather care) one step further.

Edited by Robert s
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Pretty sure I remember when the Network came out and the Benoit question was asked, they said that while they were not editing him out of shows anymore (which they did do on the old WWE 24/7 channel, I believe), they would not explicitly promote his segments or matches anywhere on the Network. Thus, he will not be involved in search results or advertised in the descriptions of any shows or PPVs. Outside of going back to completely taking him out of the shows, I feel like that's the best way they could handle it.

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2 minutes ago, MonteCarl said:

 they would not explicitly promote his segments or matches anywhere on the Network. 

They weren't going to do that anyway. That's the standard operating procedure answer.

 

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2 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Since we don't seem to have a dedicated social media thread anymore - "John Cena" is trending on Canadian twitter and I don't know why. Clicking on it didn't help much. Apparently he said some positive things about "BTS"? What's BTS?

Yesterday, he was showing up on Twitter because some kind made some portrait of Cena out of Rubiks Cubes. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Robert s said:

Just to play devil's advocate: search results for "Benoit" on the WWE Network: 0, search results for "Bruiser Bedlam": 4 matches and 13 further segments, search results for "Invaders": 3 matches and I don't think I have to tell you the results for "Jimmy Snuka". They removed Benoit from the search index / directly naming him in the title as that might get picked up by other media and get them into trouble (and no serious news outlet will have any idea who Bruiser Bedlam was or Jose Gonzales is and with Snuka they can always play the "we was not convicted" card), they don't think (or rather care) one step further.

Search: Lex Luger

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How do other online distribution channels handle cancelled performers? If you wanted to stream a bunch of R Kelly or Gary Glitter (or Lostprophets) songs, would Spotify, iTunes or Tidal be happy for you to listen to paedo music? Could you watch Aaron Hernandez' NFL highlights on any official NFL archives? Or O J Simpson's?

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