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JANUARY 2020 Wrestling Discussion


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12 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I was thinking that last night because I had the 92 Rumble on when I went to bed. If Flair/Hogan drew in Oakland (or whatever the truth is) things look a lot different 

Warrior getting fired (twice). Jake getting fired. Vince losing faith in Flair. Hogan and Piper not sticking around. Bulldog getting fired. Bret nearly going to WCW. Sid getting fired. Jannetty's issues.

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8 hours ago, nate said:

Really, the argument comes down to "who had the more successful singles career"/ "who would have had the more successful singles career"?

And I'll also add "Nightmare" Kenny Wayne.

If you're using those standards for best "other guy"...by that logic, wouldn't it be a tossup between John Morrison, Christian, and Matt Hardy (the only three "other guys" who also managed a World Title reign on their own merits)?

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17 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

If you're using those standards for best "other guy"...by that logic, wouldn't it be a tossup between John Morrison, Christian, and Matt Hardy (the only three "other guys" who also managed a World Title reign on their own merits)?

Yeah but none of those guys were around in the 80's.

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6 hours ago, Execproducer said:

I agree but there are a variety of reasons why someone is in "the other guy" spot regardless of whether they are less, equally, or more talented. Perception is reality and Gagne was clearly positioned as the #1 and team spokesman. I know the question was probably more narrowly defined as who was the consensus lesser worker of a team but "the other guy" is "the other guy".

This is kind of how I understood "the other guy" criteria. Ricky Morton is the one that got his nose rubbed into the concrete. This is after he got goaded into a confrontation because he was always the one Flair directly addressed by name when dissing the Rock N' Roll Express. Of course, that could just be because even the Four Horsemen weren't low down enough to make fun of Robert's lazy eye.

Supposing that every tag team consisted of the standout and "the other guy", wouldn't that make Rick Steiner the other guy? For starters, there's the story that Scott was in line for a World Title run, which he refused because he didn't want his brother, the Dog-faced Gremlin, to be left begging for scraps as a mid-card singles act. Besides not knowing how much truth there is to it in the first place, I believe this was a Watts thing, even though Scott had already faced Flair for the title in a Clash main event before he bolted with the big gold belt in 1991. That doesn't necessarily mean anything though since Eaton also faced Flair for the title in one of those one-off Clash main events. Rick also challenged Luger for the title as a placeholder opponent between Ron Simmons and Sting.  

Rick was more of a character with the goofy headgear (and not so subtly being portrayed as mentally challenged to varying degrees). You can be the judge on whether or not Scott was better off being the one that barely talked during promos. Even though both of them clotheslined and suplexed their opponents to hell and back, Scott was my favorite as a kid because of the Frankensteiner, whatever that standing flipping slam was called, and having an overall wider variety of suplexes. Even though Rick was more capable than Anvil, their team dynamic wasn't too different than the Hart Foundation. I realize that point is very uneven since both Steiners' whole identity was being high level collegiate wrestlers, but Scott's offense was unique enough (and more varied than Rick's) for him to be the technician and Rick the powerhouse lunatic, not unlike Bret and Neidhart. 

Scott also had that sweet, sweet mullet. There. Take that, Rick's goofy ass looking wrestling head gear.

Edited by FluffSnackwell
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Yeah, I think Rick became "the other guy" the moment Scott hit that first Frankensteiner. I also think being "the other guy" more often than not has more to do with who came out on the wrong end of a popularity contest whether that means girls preferring Ricky to Robert or dudes  wanting to see Nikita take someones head off and could give fuck all about Uncle Ivan's bear hug.

Edited by Execproducer
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41 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Rick Martel never won gold after becoming The Model.

Obviously, booking was different back then. But he should have gotten a quick IC run during that square off with Razor prior to Shawn coming back.

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Tangentially related to this discussion, but it's always blown my mind that Bret kept his tag team look when the Hart Foundation split up rather than reinventing himself. It was obviously a smart move as it was an iconic look but I can't think of anyone else who took that route and excelled

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I understood Dan's post to be about in-ring work because of the examples used: Rock N Rolls, Midnights, Fabs, Fantastics, Rockers. All generally "workrate" teams.

If the conversation is to be expanded to include general stardom, you'd need to include teams that aren't necessarily darlings: Studd/Bundy, Superpowers, Shiek/Volkoff, the aforementioned Demos and LOD

The criteria would also change the discussion completely when it comes to teams like:

Freebirds: Hayes had the charisma, but if we're talking about in-ring work he was easily the worst of the three.

Bulldogs: In-ring discussion will generally make Davey the other guy though I think it's closer than most think - discussion of basically anything outside of in-ring work would make Dynamite the other guy.

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40 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Freebirds: Hayes had the charisma, but if we're talking about in-ring work he was easily the worst of the three.

Hayes is only the worst of the three because the other two were so good.

As for Martel and Santana, I started watching wrestling in 1990 and I had no idea that Martel was a "World Champion." I knew that Tito was a former IC champion though. With Doom, there was probably a point at the very start of 91 where Simmons and Reed were at about the same level with one on the rise and one on a decline. I'd take 1984-5 Reed over any version of Simmons though. 

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If Gaylord Peacock is a perfect name for a "Colourful Extrovert" what name would be a good name for a "Colourless Introvert"?

Catweazle and TV Jackie Pallo matches are my goto when watching World of Sport on YouTube, both are way more entertaining than Big Daddy squashing wrestlers with Irish names.

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2 hours ago, BurningBeard said:

Tangentially related to this discussion, but it's always blown my mind that Bret kept his tag team look when the Hart Foundation split up rather than reinventing himself. It was obviously a smart move as it was an iconic look but I can't think of anyone else who took that route and excelled

Roman Reigns 

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2 hours ago, BurningBeard said:

Tangentially related to this discussion, but it's always blown my mind that Bret kept his tag team look when the Hart Foundation split up rather than reinventing himself. It was obviously a smart move as it was an iconic look but I can't think of anyone else who took that route and excelled

I don't think Jeff Hardy changed his look all that much from his tag-team run with Matt to his singles run. He's pretty much been wrestling in the same type of gear for about 20 years now.

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Edge also never really drastically changed his gear after splitting with Christian. Although to be fair, Edge had a decent singles push before becoming a tag wrestler whereas Bret and Jeff were tag guys almost from the beginning of their WWF/E careers and never had a chance to get a signature "look" as a singles guy before being put in a tag-team.

Edited by cwoy2j
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More recently theres the case of American Alpha. Now,depending on who you talk to will vary on who the other guy was. 

We all loved Gable, and knew that the only reason why that team was over was because of him. But if you were to talk to management- it was always all about Jason Jordan.

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3 hours ago, BurningBeard said:

Tangentially related to this discussion, but it's always blown my mind that Bret kept his tag team look when the Hart Foundation split up rather than reinventing himself. It was obviously a smart move as it was an iconic look but I can't think of anyone else who took that route and excelled

Roman Reigns is probably the most recent I'd say. Maybe Bubba Ray Dudley's weird time as a singles in 02 when Rev D-Von was happening on SD

 

Edit: that's what I get for not refreshing the page before I post. Cheers @MonteCarl

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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Gentle reminder that there are a whole world of other threads/forums around here and it would be swell if - as best as possible - things get posted in their proper spot.

I just moved the last 4 posts in this thread because they all had very specific homes (that aren't here)

Especially with some of the subject matter - I would rather be able to keep my eye on one thread than 8 

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