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AEW Dynamite - 12/18/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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On 12/19/2019 at 9:39 PM, Craig H said:

Bully Ray had a good idea for what they should have done. They should have had the initial wave of creepers and then another 10 to 15 creepers run out after that to just really give the visual of strength in numbers and that they're an overwhelming horde.

Damn it. I don't want to like a Bully Ray idea, but that is a good idea.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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12 hours ago, Casey said:

Okay, so he's quoting something Bischoff said and used Duggan as an example, and now Meltzer is using that as a metaphor for Kenny Omega. But... still. I think @MORELOCK said it best - Meltzer's value is in being a wrestling historian, and nobody should put stock into his opinion on things like this, or matches, or whatever.

Meltzer and Cornette are pretty much the same person.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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On 12/18/2019 at 10:27 PM, Oyaji said:

That opening god damned 70 minutes was just perfect pro wrestling. Three good-to-great matches that were all different and all succeeded in getting people over. I adore that shit!

Then there was some stuff that happened. That's the problem. Those opening 70 were so great that it was only down from there. Main event was fine and I understand wanting to establish SCU as a top level team but they're what? The 5th or 6th most over team on the roster? But you don't want to cut them off at the knees with a shitty, short reign. I get it. But it's not clicking.

lol @ the main event ending with a job tag team angle, lol. I think they needed something more impactful than Jon Silver and  Alex Reynolds joining the Dark Order though it was cool to see the entire Elite try to put them over.

You've been correct all along concerning the SCU.  It's great that they want to give their first champions an opportunity to succeed, and I'm still for it.  That said, they had it right in the beginning of the promotion with the SCU working nice opening card matches - winning some, losing some.  Tho, I'm happy not to have to hear that worthless intro bit every time they're out there.  

Along with @Nice Guy Eddie, I've been on board with the Dark Order from the beginning.  They even seemed to be bringing a few ppl around on them with these oddball vignettes, but this main event angle felt like a real misfire.  Last week Reynolds, or Silver, took the fastest loss in the company's short history and this week he's paraded around in the show's important closing minutes?  I love the Dark Order, but I don't get AEW's persistence with making them a main event team.  Not to say I wouldn't love to see them with gold belts upon their beautiful shoulders and waists, but not now, not yet.  Let them flourish in the mid card making a name with their beautiful violence. 

I like this commentary team, but I could really do without Excalibur's overselling.  Dude needs to listen back to his work and ask himself who he's talking to.  He has his strong points for certain, but when he's trying to sell something it too often feels like he's talking to an audience of children.  And the demos aren't that strong for adolescents.  Or are they?  

The wrestling on this show mostly worked for me (save for that weak squash from Kong).  The angles on the otherhand all needed to be tightened up.  I'm not seeing much talk about the Pac-Kenny-Nakazawa segment, but that also felt like a misfire.  First, somebody showing up on the big screen from the backstage feels very WWE, maybe that's not entirely fair, but it is what it is.  The shot going directly to Pac rather than the audience seeing Pac first on the big screen from an arena shot was jarring to say the least - also that Page-Omega scrum felt very exciting and the cut away seemed too quick.  Further, what's the concern with Nakazawa?  That he's going to get yet another beating?  Nakazawa gets killed all the time.  To not follow up on this also felt really odd.  An Adam Page heel turn seemed like a much better idea a month or so back when he was stale.  The chip on his shoulder and 'Cowboy shit' has him in a good place.  Tho, a heel turn prolly isn't going to hurt that.      

The Nightmare Collective-Statlander angle was whatever.  I don't mind seeing them try something that doesn't work - like this, and the Pac-Nakazawa thing, and the Dark Order angle.  How this very young company follows up on these cross-the-board negatively received productions is what has me interested.  Thus far, they've done a really good job of listening and engaging with the audience, and I trust they will here too.  There's room for failure when your building to the future by learning how to recover. 

I really hope and do think NXT winning this week's ratings battle will inspire AEW to take a focused look at what worked and didn't.  I don't watch NXT regularly, but really dug the two matches I saw this week: Cole-Balor and that excellent Ripley-Baszler main event.  That NXT women's division is so strong - especially in comparison to AEW. 

p.s. Where does that neat looking drop to the knee walk around the ring thing that Butcher was doing originate from?  Feels very Buzz Sawyer.

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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There are three heel stables, and they're all doing a "we're recruiting" storyline. Although the Dark Order is recruiting anyone they can get, whilst the Nightmare Collective and the Inner Circle have specific high ranking individuals they're trying to draft. Meanwhile the only babyface stable is falling apart - although I actually like the way they're slow burning that. Hangman telling the Bucks he's done with the Elite, but Kenny being too wrapped up in his own shit to notice, I like that. I think with them going with Cody as singles ace for now, they need some way to occupy Kenny, to have a legit kayfabe reason why he's not being the epic World beater he was in 2018. And having him going through confidence/ mental health issues, that's an interesting way to do it. Once he does overcome them (assuming it's a storyline and not actual issues he's having IRL) and starts having the incredible main event World title matches again, that's going to be a powerful thing. Although you do wonder who he's going to have them against. Who in AEW can have a Tokyo Dome main event level match against Omega?

Also, some of the undercard babyfaces need to look at all the heel gangs forming and establish a "You watch my back, I'll watch yours" relationship with each other. No reason for Best Friends, Jurassic Express and Private Party to not decide that they can collectively be 'Refreshing Ocean Breeze' or something. Then all turn heel and be 'Deluxe Ocean Breeze'.

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5 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

p.s. Where does that neat looking drop to the knee walk around the ring thing that Butcher was doing originate from?  Feels very Buzz Sawyer.

It does have a very Buzz Sawyer-y vibe.

I have done it as a grappling drill. Pro Wres grappling, not actual feasible fighting technique. It's the beginning of a go-behind so you can grab a waistlock. If you play Tekken, King's sidestep to multithrow starts with a similar movement, except without the descent all the way to one knee.

If you don't, then disregard all the nerdy shit I just said about Tekken.

Edited by grilledcheese
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5 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Further, what's the concern with Nakazawa?  That he's going to get yet another beating?  Nakazawa gets killed all the time.

 

Oh man, if they had shown Pac creep up on Nakazawa only to slip on baby oil and knock himself out, Nakazawa completely oblivious to the whole thing with his headphones on, I would have sincerely enjoyed that.

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44 minutes ago, grilledcheese said:

It does have a very Buzz Sawyer-y vibe.

I have done it as a grappling drill. Pro Wres grappling, not actual feasible fighting technique. It's the beginning of a go-behind so you can grab a waistlock. If you play Tekken, King's sidestep to multithrow starts with a similar movement, except without the descent all the way to one knee.

If you don't, then disregard all the nerdy shit I just said about Tekken.

That's why JR name dropped Buzz Sawyer in the match 

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6 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:



I really hope and do think NXT winning this week's ratings battle will inspire AEW to take a focused look at what worked and didn't.  I don't watch NXT regularly, but really dug the two matches I saw this week: Cole-Balor and that excellent Ripley-Baszler main event.  That NXT women's division is so strong - especially in comparison to AEW. 

 

 

I agree. I think the downside of having no writers and letting guys do their own thing is that things can be redundant. Like the simultaneous cult gimmicks. And things that are obviously not going to work are allowed to go on like the Dark Order. 

At least with Brandi Rhodes, she’s attractive, so you can understand how she’d get people in the door. Evil Uno isn’t believable as a cult leader. I could see the Dark Order as henchmen for a Ministry of Darkness type stable.but not as leaders of it. They just don’t have the charisma to pull it off. As should have been evidenced by the fact that they used an actor to drive the cult vignettes.

And what was the end game of this angle? Are the Young Bucks going to lose to another team in hopes of getting them over?

And hiring local talent or actors or whoever those masked jobbers were that didn’t know what they were doing (that viral gif of the dummy missing Dustin’s head by a foot on camera is so embarrassing) to beat up most of your top faces and tag team champions was an idiotic decision. Hopefully, they’ll only use those people to get beaten up in the future.

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I haven't had a chance to really watch anything yet other than the Dark Order beat down but this was brought to my attention listening to Jim Cornette and Brian Last.

u0dpmt95ph541.jpg

Like seriously, how can anyone defend the constant production errors on this show?  This is months of sloppy, bush league errors where I don't think I've seen a whole show come off without something getting messed up.  

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1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Dark Order, Nightmare Collective, and BBB all have to be interconnected by one leader in a huge reveal. Maybe it's Marty Scurll, maybe it's someone else, but that's the only way any of this even almost works. Otherwise, I'm just not digging it. 

The return of Supervillain Cody. 

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9 minutes ago, Goodear said:

I haven't had a chance to really watch anything yet other than the Dark Order beat down but this was brought to my attention listening to Jim Cornette and Brian Last.

u0dpmt95ph541.jpg

Like seriously, how can anyone defend the constant production errors on this show?  This is months of sloppy, bush league errors where I don't think I've seen a whole show come off without something getting messed up.  

Um, pretty sure that was intentional.  Page has had goofy stuff on that line the past few weeks. He worked a drunk angle on the last episode of BTE.  Possibly related.

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

The return of Supervillain Cody. 

Thats the kind of thing I'm talking about. Have it end up that he's the one controlling all three "dark" stables and suddenly it makes slightly more sense why you'd have three of them, other than just it simply being one negative aspect of the shows so far. The reveal would be massive. I legitimately think that's an awesome idea.

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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I've watched a few of Omega's New Japan matches. He's always been animated. But he's a full-blown cartoon now, with the gesturing and flailing hands. It feels fake. On the other hand, Page comes across as properly serious and actually trying to win the match. Page has a lot of potential, but he's not going anywhere with iffy booking and having to compete with Omega's antics. Having PAC kidnap Nakazawa seems out of left field. 

Cody/Darby vs Lucha Bros. was pretty good. Darby's Coffin Drop still makes me cringe. He's not going to have any working vertebrae in five years. Not sure if beating Butcher & Blade that neatly in their second match was the way to go. But since they're the appetizer to the main course of Cody-MJF, it's probably not a big deal.

Jericho-Jungle Boy was the best part of the show. Doing a short interview with Jungle Boy worked wonders to give a better sense of who he is and how he sees himself as a wrestler. I'm still not keen on Marko Stunt being part of Jungle Express. It works better with just Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus, IMO. Jericho did top-tier work in building sympathy for JB. I liked how Jericho doubled down on being a jerk heel with bullying his way into five more minutes before leaving in a huff when JB started getting the best of him. Jericho is the central battery for AEW. He's holding the entire operation together.

I like what I've seen from Kris Statlander.  She's raw and the alien gimmick needs to be fleshed out, but I have no issues with it so far. Her potential is really high. The match with Britt Baker was just OK, but I like how they had Kris power out of Britt's submission maneuvers. Someone backstage has got to tell Brandi her gimmick is missing the mark. I don't mind the idea of her being a seductive witch, luring people into her dark web. Kong as part of the act is also fine, though we all know she talks perfectly well, so having her be mute isn't for much. But even by wrestling standards, it's cheesy. More like Velveeta, really. 

Dark Order, HOO BOY. The execution of this has been bad. They first appear with zero fanfare. As course correction, we get vignettes where they become self-help quasi-religious cult gurus. Now they're beating down everyone in The Elite, save for Hangman Page, who looks smart for leaving the group. Is he going to become part of Dark Order? They need a bigger name if this is ever going to work. Meanwhile, they're recruiting guys who get beat in nine seconds. Their presentation is awful. Everything about them feels low-rent. It's not clicking enough to have them on TV regularly and be involved with AEW's top stars. Having a bunch of random nobodies in black sweatshirts hovering around as they deliver phantom punches and poorly done 'bloody' mouths is a terrible way to end the show and 2019 for AEW. Why does the leader wear such a cheap suit?

I think Dynamite has good things going for it, but also has some repetitively bad gimmicks that need to move quicker to make any sense.

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1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

I've watched a few of Omega's New Japan matches. He's always been animated. But he's a full-blown cartoon now, with the gesturing and flailing hands. It feels fake.

Do you think it's gotten worse? His facials have always been so goddamn goofy. Like Davey Richards / Tessa Blanchard / Seth Rollins silly. I'll have to go back and see if I see an evolution towards cartoon. I feel like it might be hard to draw a line as to when he went all the way over the top. 

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I have to be honest..  Dave does make excuses for WWE but I've heard him a lot of times say the booking sucks or simply used the phrase "it sucked.."  during these reviews.   

Bryan is right about a lot of the criticisms but they both look the other way when it comes to their favorites like Charlotte.  

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8 hours ago, Goodear said:

I haven't had a chance to really watch anything yet other than the Dark Order beat down but this was brought to my attention listening to Jim Cornette and Brian Last.

u0dpmt95ph541.jpg

Like seriously, how can anyone defend the constant production errors on this show?  This is months of sloppy, bush league errors where I don't think I've seen a whole show come off without something getting messed up.  

I thought them showing Riho for literally 2 seconds was way worse than any other flub.  That was to challenge her on the “season premiere.”  Its like they forgot about showing her in the crowd. 

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