AEW Dynamite - 12/11/2019

[Niners Fan in CT]

Nitro on its worst day had higher viewership than current WWE..  I don't think ratings are the metric we want to use.  TV is dead. 

[sydneybrown]

What is the metric then?  If TV is dead, why did everybody lose their shit when TNT picked them up?  If TV is dead, why did AEW even bother trying to get on a network in the first place?  Why didn't they just go all streaming like other organizations have?

I say this as someone who works in TV.  If it's live (sports, news) the audience is still there.  

[Niners Fan in CT]

The audience is there for live sports and news yes (kind of even NBA is down 20% this year) but the TV executives wrongly thought wrestling would be DVR proof,  that hasn't been the case really.  

AEW is a brand new company of course they would be over the moon to be on TNT but this was never going to end up like Impact on Spike TV where they were pulling in over a million viewers... just because.  Those days are dead for everything.   

TNT felt 500,000 would be good for them and they've exceeded that.  

[Phantom Lord]

TV has changed so much in the last 18 years since Nitro/Thunder were on against RAW/Smackdown. I'm sure some people look at the ratings from this week and they think "well, shit...it's over". The overall rating doesnt matter. They only care about those demos. 

Personally I believe broadcast and cable television will be pretty much gone soon. Every network will have their own streaming service (I mean they do now) and a show's success will be how many subscribers it brings in. I'm not particularly worried if AEW and NXT tie in ratings. It's all niche at this point. If your supporting AEW you're watching them. If you support NXT you're watching them.

As for AEW they need that heel that people will tune in to see get his ass kicked. MJF is going to be mega for them in 2020 if they don't screw it up. He's really channeling Piper in 1985 with some of his heat and that's gonna be a good thing.

[Niners Fan in CT]

That's where it's going.   Disney will have Disney+ and ESPN+ and Hulu/ABC,   you'll probably be able to stream your ABC local news or whatever.  

Warner Bros. will have HBO MAX and all their content streamed from that platform including TBS/TNT,  CNN, Adult Swim etc. 

Comcast will have NBC/Universal with the Peacock streaming service  

CBS will have their streaming service plus I think Viacom networks  

Then you'll have Netflix,  Amazon,  Apple+  

If you decide to buy all of them then buddy you are still paying for cable.  If some smaller services strike deals with larger services then they will up the price and you're still paying for cable. 

If you don't think you want Peacock then don't worry,  Comcast will just make sure to increase your internet bill.  '

If you don't think you want HBO Max,  don't worry AT&T will raise your internet,  phone bill and whatever else.  

[John from Cincinnati]

2 hours ago, sydneybrown said:

What is the metric then?  If TV is dead, why did everybody lose their shit when TNT picked them up?  If TV is dead, why did AEW even bother trying to get on a network in the first place?  Why didn't they just go all streaming like other organizations have?

I say this as someone who works in TV.  If it's live (sports, news) the audience is still there.  

I dunno. I don't work in TV. What is the metric? 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

2 hours ago, sydneybrown said:

What is the metric then?  If TV is dead, why did everybody lose their shit when TNT picked them up?  If TV is dead, why did AEW even bother trying to get on a network in the first place?  Why didn't they just go all streaming like other organizations have?

I say this as someone who works in TV.  If it's live (sports, news) the audience is still there.  

The media still treats TV as a big-deal because most of the media has a pretty direct interest in keeping TV alive as long as possible. And TV still *feels* significant to many people, even if they themselves hardly watch or never watch it.

[Elsalvajeloco]

10 hours ago, sydneybrown said:

What is the metric then?  If TV is dead, why did everybody lose their shit when TNT picked them up?  If TV is dead, why did AEW even bother trying to get on a network in the first place?  Why didn't they just go all streaming like other organizations have?

I say this as someone who works in TV.  If it's live (sports, news) the audience is still there.  

Moreover, especially for live sports, you cannot insure that bubble won't burst in the near future forcing you back onto linear TV. In order for TV to be dead eventually, you need everything regarding OTT services be running smoothly and efficiently without losing your ass financially. And what makes anyone think that's going to happen anytime soon (or during the lifetime for anyone here)? Netflix has over 12 billion dollars in debt and it's only growing. That's the market leader. All these services Niners mentioned are going to likely cannibalize each other. Once the honeymoon phase is over, it's going to be a fucking bloodbath. So on that alone, television is going to be very much alive and stay alive for the foreseeable future.

As for the Wednesday Night War (or whatever you want to call it), it's not really a war and I don't see it being a war because there are no catalysts there for it to turn into war. I think people have to compartmentalize what you have here. I don't think AEW as a fledgling company is going to look like what it does now in about two or three years. I do think they have a chance to grow their overall audience, but not now when it's incredibly easy to get burned out on the sheer amount of wrestling content available. If you can create one or two big stars w/ casual fans, then you're in business. Having legit draws and attractions can counterbalance ANYTHING, however, it's going to be incredibly hard to create them. As for NXT, there is a reason why WWE was hesitant for so long to put it on actual television and I don't think they were waiting for the right opportunity. Speaking as a casual wrestling fan, I don't think the overall presentation is appealing enough to grab an audience greater than a million or two million viewers on a regular basis. You need something more than one or two great wrestling matches and a whole bunch of filler with vanilla personalities every week. With WWE having a vice grip over wrestling for so long, I don't think there is a potential new audience that is desirous to see an extension of that vice grip or a "third" brand. It's a very high level, functional developmental territory. There is a clear ceiling there. It's going to peak when there is brand crossover (although you can argue diminishing returns because you would think having everyone, their mom, and other kinfolk from Raw and SD some weeks back would draw a crazy high rating), but I don't see it being much higher than that. At some point, if things don't turn around, WWE is going to fashion it into something else which is going to make for an interesting power struggle with Paul Levesque. It's also going to piss off the niche audience it currently has.

As for overall rating vs. key demos, if Dynamite next year started drawing 1.2-1.5 million avg every week but was now losing 18-49 every week to NXT drawing 750-900k avg, no one at TNT would be like "Fuck, we're getting our asses kicked in the 18-49 demo...we gotta do a complete overhaul." That is utter bullshit that overall rating doesn't matter. If the overall rating doesn't matter, then the demo doesn't matter. If both shows are dropping below the dashboard in avg viewers week to week, then what's the point of saying you won the key demo if the number in that demo is so alarmingly small? You're going to have a bunch of people in corporate and advertisers trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Elsalvajeloco

[paintedbynumbers]

14 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

So what you're saying is that your constant creepy, borderline illegal slutshaming and doxxing of her wouldn't be as tolerable had she worked at least 3 matches you found acceptable?

Get the fuck out.

how is anything I said creepy or illegal?  Slut shaming?  Christmas is coming ask for a dictionary . If she wasn't dating Cole she wouldn't be in the spot she's in  period. Half of the roster is better looking than her and more than half of the roster can cut a better promo and give a better match. I'm just asking to be proven wrong. Nobody has so far. I'm not looking to start any shit on here yet you people continue to say shit such as "get the fuck out" yet you can't disprove a thing I've said. 

[MORELOCK]

50 minutes ago, paintedbynumbers said:

how is anything I said creepy or illegal?  Slut shaming?  Christmas is coming ask for a dictionary . If she wasn't dating Cole she wouldn't be in the spot she's in  period. Half of the roster is better looking than her and more than half of the roster can cut a better promo and give a better match. I'm just asking to be proven wrong. Nobody has so far. I'm not looking to start any shit on here yet you people continue to say shit such as "get the fuck out" yet you can't disprove a thing I've said. 

The creepiest part is that you *will not stop*, no matter how many people tell you what a fucking weirdo you're being. Nobody is taking the initiative to "prove you wrong" (which literally can't be done because good matches are subjective) because nobody here actually thinks Britt is a good worker and no one said she was. It's also very clear that even if someone bothered to list three of her matches they liked, you still wouldn't stop talking. We aren't telling you to shut up because we're Britt Baker fans, we're telling you to shut up because you're coming off like an enormous creep. Find some self-awareness.

If you aren't looking to start any shit on here, LET IT THE FUCK GO. We all know how you feel because you go on for pages about it every time she's brought up. Nobody cares. Move on.

[paintedbynumbers]

7 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The creepiest part is that you *will not stop*, no matter how many people tell you what a fucking weirdo you're being. Nobody is taking the initiative to "prove you wrong" (which literally can't be done because good matches are subjective) because nobody here actually thinks Britt is a good worker and no one said she was. It's also very clear that even if someone bothered to list three of her matches they liked, you still wouldn't stop talking. We aren't telling you to shut up because we're Britt Baker fans, we're telling you to shut up because you're coming off like an enormous creep. Find some self-awareness.

If you aren't looking to start any shit on here, LET IT THE FUCK GO. We all know how you feel because you go on for pages about it every time she's brought up. Nobody cares. Move on.

I am more than willing to let it go but people bring it back up and tell me to "get the fuck out" I am going to defend myself.  So yeah let's change the topic.  What matches do you want to see at the ppv?  What can AEW do as a company to make you spend the $$ to order?    Would a card headlined by Jericho-Moxley   MJF-Cody  and Page-Omega be enough?           

 

On the flip side of things,  what if we get more AEW guys showing up at the NJPW dome show?  We know Mox and Jericho will be there, do you think we get anyone else?  Do we maybe get some NJPW stars to come in to AEW in return?

[Raziel]

AEW and NJPW isnt happening outside of Jericho and Mox who are on separate contracts done before their AEW deals.  Both sides have said as much multiple times.

[Goodear]

PPV wise I'm not really the market in that I'm not spending $50 on a show period if I'm not going to be in the building.  That goes for everything including concerts, boxing matches, mma, etc.  There is too much content out there that I can't keep up with to justify that purchase.

I don't think New Japan is a draw in the United States outside of the crowd who would already be invested in AEW.  I think they have that market covered so working with them seems pretty pointless to me.

 

[JonnyLaw]

9 hours ago, Oyaji said:

AEW is already outdoing WCW business prior to the nWo, are they not? 

AEW is more successful than WCW if you arbitrarily only consider the time before WCW was successful! 

[Technico Support]

12 hours ago, caley said:

I REALLY hate the Excalibur calls a move and JR and Tony make fun of him for it routine.  It’s bad enough when it’s a Japanese/Lucha move.  It’s completely moronic when it’s something like “Greco Roman lockup” (or was it knuckle lock?) that has been used for years.  

Yeah, this.  Excalibur is a great announcer and it's not his fault Ross spent decades under a guy who stressed that move names aren't important outside the ubiquitous "Whattamaneuver."  I think Schiavone just goes along with the ride because he's having fun.  Ross is the one who had bullying instilled into him as a way of life by Watts and McMahon.

[Jiji]

44 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

AEW is more successful than WCW if you arbitrarily only consider the time before WCW was successful! 

Right, let's then compare a startup to the prime of a company that had been around for decades in one form or another. Cool. Or, let's pretend that they were always as successful as they were at their  relatively short peak while this is the best of aew! 

[Jiji]

46 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, this.  Excalibur is a great announcer and it's not his fault Ross spent decades under a guy who stressed that move names aren't important outside the ubiquitous "Whattamaneuver."  I think Schiavone just goes along with the ride because he's having fun.  Ross is the one who had bullying instilled into him as a way of life by Watts and McMahon.

I feel like Excalibur is the type of guy to quietly tell them to fuck off when they are not on air going off his pwg commentary and interactions on highspots series. 

[Godfrey]

I’m stoked for the Feb PPV, I’m going to try to grab some good seats if they aren’t hugely expensive. I’m hoping that we’ll get The Match Beyond as some suspect or at least MJF/Cody or Wardlow/Cody in some form as well as Jericho/Moxley. I think SCU are kind of a dead act so I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bucks take the titles and we have PnP/Bucks for the belts in a big time gimmick match. They could do Dustin/Hager or Luchasaurus/Hager if he’s still employed by then. Maybe Riho/Shida/Statlander or something along those lines. Nyla Rose/Awesome Kong? A lot could change in 2 months but those seem like good ideas at this point.

AEW has been doing a good job of getting some angles going so the key in my book is to have a card that doesn’t look thrown together. Every match should be there for a good reason and I’d hope they keep the random multi-man train wreck matches to a minimum. Janella/Spears might not be a main event in any arena in the world but I’d much prefer those dudes paying off an angle than a 4-way tag with people flying everywhere but none of it means anything. With only a few PPVs a year, I imagine the show will be stacked though.

[Log]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, this.  Excalibur is a great announcer and it's not his fault Ross spent decades under a guy who stressed that move names aren't important outside the ubiquitous "Whattamaneuver."  I think Schiavone just goes along with the ride because he's having fun.  Ross is the one who had bullying instilled into him as a way of life by Watts and McMahon.

For fuck's sake. There's bullying and there's ribbing.  Ross and Schiavone are lightly ribbing Excalibur.  It's obviously an ongoing joke between the three of them.  Ross isn't abusing Excalibur in the shower or some shit.  

[Jiji]

But how do you know? 

[paintedbynumbers]

4 minutes ago, Log said:

For fuck's sake. There's bullying and there's ribbing.  Ross and Schiavone are lightly ribbing Excalibur.  It's obviously an ongoing joke between the three of them.  Ross isn't abusing Excalibur in the shower or some shit.  

Clue 2020 "it was JR in the shower with a BBQ sauce bottle"

[JonnyLaw]

46 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Right, let's then compare a startup to the prime of a company that had been around for decades in one form or another. Cool. Or, let's pretend that they were always as successful as they were at their  relatively short peak while this is the best of aew! 

You’re the one who threw that comparison out there. There’s no point to comparing AEW to a random point in WCW’s lifespan just to make AEW look good. 

[Jiji]

11 hours ago, alstein said:

At this point AEW feels like it's going to end up ECW-sized more than WCW-sized, unless it can get to a point it grows regularly and slowly.

No I was not. 

[Technico Support]

25 minutes ago, Log said:

For fuck's sake. There's bullying and there's ribbing.  Ross and Schiavone are lightly ribbing Excalibur.  It's obviously an ongoing joke between the three of them.  Ross isn't abusing Excalibur in the shower or some shit.  

Yeah making fun of the dude's commentary style multiple times a week every week is just gentle ribbing, the kind of ribbing the business is built on, brother! 

We don't need to be absolutist.  There's something between teasing and shower rape.  I feel like the constant making fun of the dude having the absolute temerity to call a move by its name is a bit much and you have to consider the (cranky, bitter) source the behavior is coming from. 

[Log]

I'm sure Excalibur cries himself to sleep every night thinking of Ross saying that mean stuff to him.  Dude choked an active wrestler out when he fucked with him.  I'm sure he's fine.

Listen, I'm no Ross apologist.  As much as Cornette gets shit on (rightfully so) for his outdated views, Ross is right there too.  On top of that, I don't think Ross has been good at all on commentary.  I'd rather see a 'Calibur/Tony booth myself.

I just think it's a little much calling a few little comments about "fancy" move names bullying.  Save that word for the real bad shit that most definitely goes on in wrestling.