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DECEMBER 2019 WRESTLING CHAT.


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Just now, OSJ said:

*Yawns*

No, seriously, I asked a question on a point you made twice and you got snarky, I was genuinely curious.  I mean, if you *want* to be an ass that misread something, then sure...

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3 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'm trying to picture that NJPW-Impact cross-promotion situation that Craig suggested, and it's weird. Rich Swann or Ace Austin mixing it up with some of the juniors would be okay. But at the main event level, it's not like Impact is even big enough to merit a visit from the tippy-top dogs. So what does that leave us with? Sanada vs Rhino? EVIL vs Moose? I doubt there's any combination that's likely to be a huge shot in the arm for anyone's business. It'd probably be as flat as the ROH relationship unless they wanted to do something crazy like feed Suzuki to Tessa, but nobody's ever going to agree to that and I should definitely stop thinking about it and wanting it. 

New Japan working with half dead WCW that had big name talent on top during various points in the early to mid 90s wasn't even a shot in the arm and at that point they didn't need it anyway. This is just the same thing except you don't have the allure of having a Ric Flair or the Steiners or whomever. They wouldn't even respond to their email correspondence. 

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7 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Forget Tana.

Shooter Stevens vs Yano is the match. 

Shit, that's the first match I'm gonna sim when I play Fire Pro tonight.  And the other matchups sound quite wonderful as well so I'll be busy tonight.

Though I would pay good money to see Yano versus Question Mark.

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8 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Everyone sleeps on the classic Kojima vs. Big Daddy Yum Yum match from a few years ago.

I know objectively that's a real wrestler and I've seen match footage with my own two eyes but every time I see someone mention the wrestler named "Big Daddy Yum Yum" my first response is still "that sounds made up."

 

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1 hour ago, Raziel said:

I'm curious as to what other National promotion they should've partnered with when the groundwork for expansion was laid.

Didn't mean to get snarky, but the very idea of ROH as a National Promotion is somewhat laughable. ROH was/is an Eastcoast thing, they are at best the Eastcoast equivalent of Pro Wrestling Guerrilla (which I'd much rather watch). 

NJPW's sin was looking for a partner instead of going balls to the wall on their own. They have/had TV, they have major stars that speak English, the only real knock is that they would need to adjust their booking for US tv, that's hardly a big obstacle. As it is, they go down as a great missed opportunity. 

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'm trying to picture that NJPW-Impact cross-promotion situation that Craig suggested, and it's weird. Rich Swann or Ace Austin mixing it up with some of the juniors would be okay. But at the main event level, it's not like Impact is even big enough to merit a visit from the tippy-top dogs. So what does that leave us with? Sanada vs Rhino? EVIL vs Moose? I doubt there's any combination that's likely to be a huge shot in the arm for anyone's business. It'd probably be as flat as the ROH relationship unless they wanted to do something crazy like feed Suzuki to Tessa, but nobody's ever going to agree to that and I should definitely stop thinking about it and wanting it. 

Look...You can get the possibility of Matt Taven vs anyone from NJPW or you can have Cage, Moose, Callihan, and various tag teams mixing it up with dudes from NJPW. Personally, I'll take SANADA giving the Skull End to Callihan and becoming Impact world champion.

No matter what though, they're still on access so nothing is going to improve business that much, but at least it's better than what ROH is now. 

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40 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Didn't mean to get snarky, but the very idea of ROH as a National Promotion is somewhat laughable. ROH was/is an Eastcoast thing, they are at best the Eastcoast equivalent of Pro Wrestling Guerrilla (which I'd much rather watch).

So by your reasoning there wasn't really a national promotion back then asides of WWE?

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It would be different if New Japan lived and died on the money they made from expansion or was hard up for cash, but they are not. This is basically who makes for the best fantasy booking scenarios and if that's the case, no partnership really makes sense. One talent raid or two talent raids later, and people would be arguing about who New Japan needs to partner with next. Maybe I'm jaded working for Walmart on the ecommerce side, but I imagine business partnerships aren't dictated by snapshots in time. AEW can either be stone cold or red hot in the next six months, but they definitely do not have a body of work that suggests they will continue on the same path for a long time. A US expansion won't meant shit if guys are having five star classics in front of 5,000 people in a venue that seats 12,000+. "Well it's better than what they have..." They are not using Ring of Honor as a host to leech off of to stay alive. They ain't AWA or Watts' UWF at the end. New Japan will be around and stay around for the foreseeable future. I can't say that about any company in the United States headquartered outside of Connecticut.

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The IWGP so transparently having to change trajectory in early 2019 after Kenny neglected to mention his plans to leave makes it easy to forget how much of a let down his 'me against my friends' 2018 reign was after being so hot chasing and how badly the dome main event was sabotaged. The US expansion could never have existed and AEW turning Kenny's ear would still be looked back on as the point when New Japan's recent golden age came to an end. They've yet to regain that lost momentum.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

Look...You can get the possibility of Matt Taven vs anyone from NJPW or you can have Cage, Moose, Callihan, and various tag teams mixing it up with dudes from NJPW. Personally, I'll take SANADA giving the Skull End to Callihan and becoming Impact world champion.

No matter what though, they're still on access so nothing is going to improve business that much, but at least it's better than what ROH is now. 

Sanada was already in Impact, a good while ago. He was a protege of The Great Muta, and then in a stable with James Storm and Mahabali Shera.

If we're booking NJPW vs Impact dream matches, Ospreay vs Swann would be a good one.

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54 minutes ago, Salads said:

The IWGP so transparently having to change trajectory in early 2019 after Kenny neglected to mention his plans to leave makes it easy to forget how much of a let down his 'me against my friends' 2018 reign was after being so hot chasing and how badly the dome main event was sabotaged. The US expansion could never have existed and AEW turning Kenny's ear would still be looked back on as the point when New Japan's recent golden age came to an end. They've yet to regain that lost momentum.

I have a hard time writing an obit on NJPW's "golden age" when they still have Tana, Naito, Jay White, etc. etc. etc. Okay, maybe the plans for major US expansion got back-burnered, but that's hardly the end of the world. I'd venture to say that they didn't lose a single hardcore fan as a result of the aborted expansion. And before anyone jumps in babbling about the casual fans, that isn't NJPW's market in the States and never has been. The hardcores (like me) are the ones buying merch as fast as they can get it, NJPW is just fine as a Japanese promotion with a strong niche fanbase in the US.

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It would be different if New Japan lived and died on the money they made from expansion or was hard up for cash, but they are not. This is basically who makes for the best fantasy booking scenarios and if that's the case, no partnership really makes sense. One talent raid or two talent raids later, and people would be arguing about who New Japan needs to partner with next. Maybe I'm jaded working for Walmart on the ecommerce side, but I imagine business partnerships aren't dictated by snapshots in time. AEW can either be stone cold or red hot in the next six months, but they definitely do not have a body of work that suggests they will continue on the same path for a long time. A US expansion won't meant shit if guys are having five star classics in front of 5,000 people in a venue that seats 12,000+. "Well it's better than what they have..." They are not using Ring of Honor as a host to leech off of to stay alive. They ain't AWA or Watts' UWF at the end. New Japan will be around and stay around for the foreseeable future. I can't say that about any company in the United States headquartered outside of Connecticut.

Well said. What needs to be remembered is that the US market is just icing on the cake for NJPW, it isn't necessary for survival, not by a long shot.

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3 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

I know objectively that's a real wrestler and I've seen match footage with my own two eyes but every time I see someone mention the wrestler named "Big Daddy Yum Yum" my first response is still "that sounds made up."

 

"Big Daddy Yum Yum" sounds like the sort of person who hangs out in the Castro district that you would probably want to avoid... 

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