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DECEMBER 2019 WRESTLING CHAT.


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8 hours ago, MapRef41N93W said:

What do you mean? That seems like a huge obstacle!

What's so hard about cutting twenty-minute matches down to ten? Or minimizing the silly eight and ten man tags? I wouldn't think making such adjustments would be at all difficult for someone with Gedo's smarts.

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5 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


This is a great question for the agents at WWE and AEW.

Well the answer at AEW is get Kenny to quit making grotesque faces for ten minutes of camera time and you've got it!

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52 minutes ago, OSJ said:

What's so hard about cutting twenty-minute matches down to ten? Or minimizing the silly eight and ten man tags? I wouldn't think making such adjustments would be at all difficult for someone with Gedo's smarts.

The other view is.. if I wanted to watch a US TV product, I'd watch one of the 4 promotions in the US with TV.  I watch NJPW because I want to watch NJPW, not a US product with Japanese wrestlers.

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1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:


This is a great question for the agents at WWE and AEW.

For WWE it's more of a result of HHH and Shawn Michaels being hands on in NXTs inring product over the years. How many matches has HHH had on these Major Shows that's under 20 minutes. There is no excuse for Hunter to have the longest match on a card and this point. That's just his mentality. He feels he Needs 20 minutes to tell a story. Its that Harley Race/Ric Flair NWA world title match mentality he's had. He and Shawn have that same psychology in agenting these matches. Alot of these NXT Takeover main events have the same overly dramatic tropes of HHH/Taker and the Last Taker/Michaels WM matches. 

Alot of it too is the "Women's Evolution" sorta came about because the Women not getting enough time for their matches , what WWE doesn't realize is there's a difference between 2 to 3 minutes and 15 to 25 minutes and that not everyone knows how to work or pace themselves to go to long. 

Edited by Ziggy
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39 minutes ago, Raziel said:

The other view is.. if I wanted to watch a US TV product, I'd watch one of the 4 promotions in the US with TV.  I watch NJPW because I want to watch NJPW, not a US product with Japanese wrestlers.

Come now, who is being obtuse? I was speaking hypothetically about how one might adjust booking from the NJPW model to something more familiar to US casual fans. I watch NJPW because I like NJPW and consider it far and away the best promotion in the world. I didn't say anything about actually wanting to watch a US product with Japanese wrestlers.

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On 12/27/2019 at 10:08 AM, MORELOCK said:

The Elite leaving pretty much sank the possibility of a successful American expansion, and Omega and the Bucks used their NJPW-created stardom as a launching pad to start a rival organization that helped to kill the aforementioned expansion. And NJPW is supposed to promote and thank them? Ridiculous.

I agree, its pro Wrestling. If your the ELITE why not spin it like your the Babyfaces especially to your loyal fanbase.

At least this expansion got New Japan to focus more on building more gaijin talent through the LA dojo and now they have one in Australia too right? They have a nice crop of young lions. They probably wouldn't have focused so much on developing guys outside of the homeland as they have been so that's a plus. 

They'll be fine just doing a handful of shows spread out throughout the year like they've been doing. 

It seemed like NJPW wasn't really into using ROH talent other than Omega. I dont see them being to interested in any IMPACT talent or any other Promotion, they already have access to Moxley and Jericho with out having to work with AEW. I could see them trying to get Scurl but that's it.

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2 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Yes, he wore this in the ring once, I can't find the image right now.

njpw-hiroyoshi-tenzan-japanese_1_016a5fa

Sweet tap-dancing jeebus! WTF is wrong with some Japanese people?

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I assume that was his look when he first got back to Japan if not before. He got the name from the Tien Shan mountains from Tokyo Joe, so I'm sure there's something to it culturally.

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40 minutes ago, Ryan said:

OH MY FUCKING GOD. Lets get weird, everyone.

Tenzan appeared in the video for "Yonaoshi Good Vibration" by Japanese metal band Sex Machineguns.

 

 

Guitar Wolf needs to give Ibushi a gig with them. After viewing this I will repeat my earlier query: WTF is wrong with some Japanese people?

Edited by OSJ
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1 hour ago, OSJ said:

Guitar Wolf needs to give Ibushi a gig with them. After viewing this I will repeat my earlier query: WTF is wrong with some Japanese people?

Nothing of note. They're just a speed metal band that used a visual kei theme at the time and wrote wacky songs. Don't ask me about the video plot. I assume Tenzan wrote it.

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:
Offered without comment:
 

Hey, I was at that card (this past Thursday in Philly). Mostly twink gymkata (see above) and meaningless fatboy death matches. Nice showings by Homicide, Dan Maff and Ophidian however, and a couple local standouts. As you can see, the small (18') ring fits snugly betwixt the bar and the stairs, leaving room for three standing rows on two sides to block the bathrooms. Indie intimacy...

- RAF

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5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

For WWE it's more of a result of HHH and Shawn Michaels being hands on in NXTs inring product over the years. How many matches has HHH had on these Major Shows that's under 20 minutes. There is no excuse for Hunter to have the longest match on a card and this point. That's just his mentality. He feels he Needs 20 minutes to tell a story. Its that Harley Race/Ric Flair NWA world title match mentality he's had. He and Shawn have that same psychology in agenting these matches. Alot of these NXT Takeover main events have the same overly dramatic tropes of HHH/Taker and the Last Taker/Michaels WM matches. 

Alot of it too is the "Women's Evolution" sorta came about because the Women not getting enough time for their matches , what WWE doesn't realize is there's a difference between 2 to 3 minutes and 15 to 25 minutes and that not everyone knows how to work or pace themselves to go to long. 

More of it seems to be a mutual problem with New Japan changing WWE and AEW, instead of the vice-versa.

New Japan has been on fire with a bunch of good long matches- and because they're on fire, they convinced the American audience that "long" equals "good". As a result, now people seem to believe a match has to be at least 10-15 minutes and go through at least one commercial break or it's inherently a bad match, and ignored the joy of a good sprint. 

End result- we get a bunch of weak 10-15 minute matches that mean nothing and will be forgotten about until next week's 10-15 minute rematch to eat up time between two people who don't matter onscreen...but the match is LONG! Long like the New Japan matches! That means it's good!

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14 minutes ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Hey, I was at that card (this past Thursday in Philly). Mostly twink gymkata (see above) and meaningless fatboy death matches. Nice showings by Homicide, Dan Maff and Ophidian however, and a couple local standouts. As you can see, the small (18') ring fits snugly betwixt the bar and the stairs, leaving room for three standing rows on two sides to block the bathrooms. Indie intimacy...

- RAF

Allie Kat looked pretty fucked up after her match too. Indie wrestling really kind of sucks now for the most part. Amazing with how hot it was just a couple of years ago. It's going to take a long time to build up some star caliber talent.

edit: Long doesn't always equal good but for the best storytellers you need time. However, we could all use more Giant vs. Meng type kaiju battles that are sub five minutes. And when a top guy is in there with a JTTS, you don't need to go 10+.

Edited by Oyaji
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2 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

More of it seems to be a mutual problem with New Japan changing WWE and AEW, instead of the vice-versa.

New Japan has been on fire with a bunch of good long matches- and because they're on fire, they convinced the American audience that "long" equals "good". As a result, now people seem to believe a match has to be at least 10-15 minutes and go through at least one commercial break or it's inherently a bad match, and ignored the joy of a good sprint. 

End result- we get a bunch of weak 10-15 minute matches that mean nothing and will be forgotten about until next week's 10-15 minute rematch to eat up time between two people who don't matter onscreen...but the match is LONG! Long like the New Japan matches! That means it's good!

Rock , Austin the main event matches of the late 90s was heavily influenced by Mid 00s All Japan, the were the first do kicking out of your opponents finishers or using your opponents finisher and a near fall it gotten more common as time went on

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