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NOVEMBER 2019 WRESTLING CHAT.

The Natural

By The Natural
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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SorceressKnight

SorceressKnight

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Well, that, and some people who like Cornette for whatever reason can't just say, "yeah, he's shit, but I enjoy his work" or "yeah, what he said was too much, but I like his commentary/podcast in general" and move on. It's like someone attacking Cornette's behavior translates to an attack on the identity of the person who likes Cornette.

The modern American way of forging identity - the things that I like and consume are ME - is probably pretty unhealthy. 

But that's just my take. 

But the exact opposite is true as well- the modern American way of forging identity is also "the things that you like and consume are YOU", so that leads to the problem as well. 

As such, people who like Cornette can't just say "yeah, he's shit, but I enjoy his work" or "yeah, what he said was too much, but I like his commentary/podcast in general" because the response will become inevitably "You like Cornette and he's a shithead? Well, by liking Cornette, you agree with everything he says and you are a shithead too!"

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Ultimo Necro

Ultimo Necro

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Whodathunkit said:

What have Smackdown's ratings been like lately?  I remember seeing the numbers posted here for the first couple weeks but nothing since the FS1 episode.

They lost out to Frosty the Snowman this week according to Post Wrestling 

https://www.postwrestling.com/2019/11/30/smackdowns-number-drops-against-frosty-the-snowman/

 

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

But the exact opposite is true as well- the modern American way of forging identity is also "the things that you like and consume are YOU", so that leads to the problem as well. 

As such, people who like Cornette can't just say "yeah, he's shit, but I enjoy his work" or "yeah, what he said was too much, but I like his commentary/podcast in general" because the response will become inevitably "You like Cornette and he's a shithead? Well, by liking Cornette, you agree with everything he says and you are a shithead too!"

Sure, though I think the "ME" predates the "YOU." Get a bunch of fandoms of movies, gamers or, hell, pro wrestling fans together and they can be pretty toxic, which leads to assumptions of toxicity that are unfair on an individual level, but that come from somewhere. 

For example, I think Knives Out is a fantastic movie and I enjoy Rian Johnson's work in general, but inevitably on any article about that movie, Star Wars fans come in and go on and on about how terrible Johnson is and how he ruined Star Wars, which is obsessive enough in a weird and unhealthy way on its own, but that then also leads weird places about how Johnson is too hung up on female representation and personally must hate Star Wars fans a lot of the time, and that's pretty revealing about many of those fans. 

And I think that the assumptions about those fans that you mention comes from the initial weird overreaction to a fantasy film. Like, there's critique, and then there's being oddly personal about art that you don't like, and I think as humans, most people go there at least a few times in their life. Some people, however, make that a way of life.

---

The other issue is that your argument re: Cornette and his recent antics is not quite equivalent. I don't think that Cornette is any more racist than any other white dude from Tennessee. This society is racist, sexist, etc., and people are influenced by their society, but I don't believe that Cornette is actively, intentionally racist. He's just a dude who makes bad racist jokes because he's fucking old and slow to change. 

However, he does come off as a dude who loves the shock value angle and who, even after he got fired from Power, was putting up a podcast about snowflakes who can't take a joke and shit IIRC. He courts this stuff on purpose, and so you wonder: Who is he courting by defending his own racist jokes or telling people that they should be hanged for not wearing a tie or whatever? It really speaks to what type of listener that he believes that he can get by doing this stuff. 

I don't find it strange when someone questions Cornette defenders from that perspective. I don't mean to say that if an artist does or says things that one finds ethically unacceptable, we must all hate their art. HOWEVER, when someone goes out of their way to parse Cornette by pointing out that he just said that he thought someone should be hanged rather than that someone should commit suicide, so really, the LIARS are just out there lying to the SHEEP who should listen for themselves or that people who don't appreciate race-based jokes about fried chicken and East African famine in 2019 are just SNOWFLAKES, I'm not sure that you should be shocked that people make assumptions about the defenders. 

In general, our culture is going through political and social upheaval, and people can't relate to one another and some people don't like change or having to think about how they relate to others, and other people don't know or feel that their concerns are being heard, and so that seeps into everything, including our good old pro wrestling when really, we would probably all rather talk about how dope wrestling is. Because wrestling IS pretty dope. 

 

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nate

nate

Posted
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23 hours ago, ka-to said:

Baron Corbin should be getting over now that he is wearing the mandatory Baron cape. You can't take a Baron seriously without one.

I wonder if Darin Corbin gets pissed for being mistaken for Baron Corbin.

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Kang

Kang

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Whodathunkit said:

What have Smackdown's ratings been like lately?  I remember seeing the numbers posted here for the first couple weeks but nothing since the FS1 episode.

Still higher than the other American wrestling shows. And ok demos.

 

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bazzil

bazzil

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, AxB said:

OK. He said "He should be hung in the parking lot", so in other words, not that Smallman should kill himself, but that other people should kill Smallman. Because not wearing a Bowtie to announce is apparently grounds for lynching.

My problem arises from the fact that the entirety of the outrage about this was based off something that, as you have pointed out, he did not say.

Saying people should be killed in various ways for perceived crimes against the wrestling industry is pretty much a staple of Cornette. Given that, as far as I'm aware, none of the probably dozens of people he has said such things about have actually been murdered by someone in an Outlaw Mud Show tshirt I can only assume that even his most ardent fans take it as the hyperbolic dark humor its obviously intended to be. If you or anyone else has a problem with him using such speech then thats fine and I wont be wasting too much of my time arguing about that, but I do take issue with it when what are nothing less than lies about what he said are reported and subsequently repeated.

 

15 hours ago, Casey said:

Next thing you know this guy is going to say Cornette didn't say Justin Roberts looked like a pedophile.

Sounds like someone else here...

I dont think anyone has said he didnt say that and I wont be the first as I'm well aware that he did. But theres a big difference between making a joke about someones appearance and claiming someone is actually a pedophile. Cornette did the first but it was dishonestly reported that he did the second. Again, its the complete misrepresentation of what he said that I have a problem with.

It's like someone attacking Cornette's behavior translates to an attack on the identity of the person who likes Cornette.

Attacking Cornettes behavior is fine. Attacking Cornette, or anyone else, based on made up, dishonest representations of their behavior I dont think is fine

Edited by bazzil
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sabremike

sabremike

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Would you really expect any different from The Sandman?

I love the guy but let's remember he was so legendary for getting completely fucked up before matches and was so dangerous that Mick Foley didn't want to work with him (also remember the infamous house show in Florida where he got naked in the ring. Remember the late Doug Gentry talking about it saying "They say there are no more hour long matches in wrestling, but that sure felt like one"). (And yes, I know the irony that Mick accidentally knocked him cold with a frying pan).

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Jenalysis

Jenalysis

Posted
Posted
7 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Jordynne Grace getting the new month started early.

 

Taya always delivers match of the night at Wrestlecade shows. (and she was in that match).   She's also one of the nicest people I've ever seen at the shows.

I want Taya and Johnny in AEW more for Taya than I do Johnny, and Johnny's a natural fit (Johnny+Jack+Angelico+Kip+Taya+Penelope would be such an awesome group).

Got to hear a lot of interesting and surprising things from Eric Embry today as well.  I think he was glad folks remembered him. 

That said, the only person I didn't get a real strong impression of personally was Pillman Jr, though he's young and I don't think he's a complete jerk or anything.  I can see why he's not in AEW though right now.  Get him away from Teddy Hart ASAP.  I suspect Teddy's a bad influence (DBS Jr is cool though)

 

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