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AEW Dynamite - 10/9/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

He feels for JR hurting his credibility calling a Jimmy Havoc match, but he's not above taking what little money Court Bauer throws at him to call Sami Callihan matches. 

Jimmy Havoc looks like garbage and his work sucks, but I don't need Corny to tell me that. 

...but having his face shoved in Vince's ass and Bells Palsy mocked didn't? Cornette just seems sour to me over not getting a job in AEW.

The second part...we'll never agree on. I think Havoc's in ring work is fine and his look his great. It's part of what makes him unique.

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Cornette's review of Riho vs Nyla was the worst. Just awful. Refused to actually watch most of the match but said it was ridiculous to have Nyla bumping around for Riho because of the size difference. The story of the match made sense if he watched it. He just wanted to rant about Kenny Omega having a Japanese Schoolgirl fetish.

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"Unique" isn't always good. Jimmy's an aging sad sack who never grew out of whatever scene it is he's part of. Which would be fine if I found him vaguely threatening or athletic. He should be parked in strictly death match stuff and do things shocking enough to make me forget how hideous and lacking-in-credibility he is. He's too unpleasant to be on national television, and he's of such abyssal quality that I could imagine WWE not seeing any value in signing him to keep him away from the competition. Cody Rhodes should go back to his roots and put a paper bag over this guy's head.

I can accept his presence in MLW because I'm there for a lot rent show featuring fat LA Park. On national television though? He's there because WWE hoarded so much talent that he made the cut. 

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He's an asset on the mic as a heel and he excels at hardcore shit. I don't think he's without value in wrestling matches but he's not going to shine without build and heat. As a babyface with little screen time he's not going to get over. He should be the miserable prick he was at the height of his Progress run. I don't think they can do a carbon copy of that run though where he felt like he was forced into death matches and turned as a result.

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On 10/9/2019 at 4:39 PM, Rehabilitated Rick said:

Ryback is awesome and with some retooling could be a valuable asset to the mid-card. If we're willing to give Hager a shot (who does nothing for me) then why not Ryback? Because CM Punk said he was a clumsy oaf? So is Goldberg and Goldberg is the best. 

Ryback was one of the first casualties of WWE's reluctance to strike when the iron is hot. He was hanging by a thread and not even Heyman could heat him up again, so he took to social media and figured it out for himself. It was working for a while, too. 

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Give him a shot.

He was always a guilty pleasure in the sense that I wouldn't think I wouldn't expect to be a fan of his like I was. The only problem is he's been out of the ring so long and for someone with no experience outside of WWE, that's not good. Ryback is one on these guys that if WWE was all the way on board with him he'd have been a big enough star for them.

They've slotted Swagger nicely into the roster, He's best inring work was at the end of the WWECW when he came in working people like Finlay, Christian , Borne and Dreamer. MLW used him nicely having him work sorta the Josh Barnett Bloodsport type style. If they bring in Harry DBS Smith jr and other guys like that , that would be cool for him to have guys to work that style. Honestly I'd like to see that style on mainstream TV. Guys that work like Riddle

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21 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

He's an asset on the mic as a heel and he excels at hardcore shit. I don't think he's without value in wrestling matches but he's not going to shine without build and heat. As a babyface with little screen time he's not going to get over. He should be the miserable prick he was at the height of his Progress run. I don't think they can do a carbon copy of that run though where he felt like he was forced into death matches and turned as a result.

Well I hope they do something, because he carries no goodwill with me for a run from (based on a few Youtube videos I've seen) five years ago. 

I know these guys are all about the evolution of things and what professional wrestling looks like in 2019. But sometimes the results of the eye test are so damning it's hard for me to give someone the benefit of the doubt. That's 100% how I feel about Jimmy Havoc. He looks dopey at this level, like they just pulled some dude off the street. I hope a real story can turn me around on him. Either that or go full boar with death match stuff so I can be entertained by the carnage. 

You're right about him not getting over as a babyface with minimal screen time. He's DOA till they find him something to do. 

Why would you say they can't do a carbon copy of that particular run? TBS probably having an upper limit for how much death match stuff they want? Or it would just be too predictable? 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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4 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Well I hope they do something, because he carries no goodwill with me for a run from (based on a few Youtube videos I've seen) five years ago. 

I know these guys are all about the evolution of things and what professional wrestling looks like in 2019. But sometimes the results of the eye test are so damning it's hard for me to give someone the benefit of the doubt. That's 100% how I feel about Jimmy Havoc. He looks dopey at this level, like they just pulled some dude off the street. I hope a real story can turn me around on him. Either that or go full boar with death match stuff so I can be entertained by the carnage. 

You're right about him not getting over as a babyface with minimal screen time. He's DOA till they find him something to do. 

Why would you say they can't do a carbon copy of that particular run? TBS probably having an upper limit for how much death match stuff they want? 

I feel like the authenticity would be lost if they just ganked a Progress storyline from, as you said, five years ago. Maybe they can and put a fresh coat of paint on it with a few tweaks, but he desperately needs something to feel aggrieved by to turn into a whiny dickhead. The greatness of that storyline was that they basically did a modern variant of the classic Cactus Jack vs. the ECW fans bit and it worked so well. He really did try to wrestle but he kept getting fucked over by opponents and goaded into hardcore wrestling by both opponents and the promotion that when he snapped it worked. I just feel like doing it over again would be lazy and uninspired. It may work but I think you'd get a lot of eye rolling from people who've already seen that movie before. 

edit: Coming to America brought up the same god damn idea (much more concisely).

Edited by Oyaji
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On 10/11/2019 at 12:58 AM, Cobra Commander said:

having done extemp speaking in HS Speech and Debate... I suspect there are some people who would flourish working that way, and some that would have a rough go of things (at least at first), and fucking up early might not be forgotten so quickly. But yeah, seeing Jericho and thinking, "why can't other people do this" is slightly unfair to the other people too. It's like watching Altuve and asking why more 5'6" dudes aren't in the majors.

although i'd hope the concept of "here's a topic, think it over for 30 minutes, and speak on it for a few minutes" would be a solid exercise for getting some people into that mindset

Why should it be a criteria for everyone to be able to talk.in that setting. If your not much of a talker than why should you have to be able to deliver verbiage in that setting. AEW is going to hold it against you or use that as a reason to not push you if you can't talk. It all depends on the angle and the setting. MLW does a great job with the ECW backstage style promos or even look at NWAs studio style interviews, those are different then we've been seeing on mainstream Wrestling tv for 25 years and that's what mainstream Wrestling needs, a different feel and formula. Some guys dont need to talk at all. I'm sure there are other guys that are just as good as Jericho on the mic in front of a live crowd. WWEs excuse to micromanage verbiage is not because they dont believe in the talent, even though they used the excuse because in every era there have been guys that are good talkers and guys that aren't. Gabe's era of Ring of Honor had a ton of excellent workrate guys that were excellent talkers as well. Why have we been brainwashed to believe that Wrestlers all of a sudden need scripts and writers?

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7 hours ago, Ace said:

Do we really need Jim Cornette's take every time on a company he has no involvement in?

Why not?

Are we going to silence those with differing opinions to ours now?

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Id say we dont them repeatedly posted when the people who want to hear him (of which i am one, but not about aew or nxt) know where to find him. 

But then, imagine how tiny the board would be if people here exhibited restraint in posting stuff. ? 

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I enjoy Havok’s finger biting offense. I enjoy the flips and the big moves of the other guys, but sometimes I just want a guy eating another guy’s fingers. I don’t need him to be a world champion or be in big storylines. Just to occasionally put mid-carders hands in his mouth. 

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If Marty is AEW-bound, I don't think an alliance with Jimmy Havoc would be a bad idea. Marty has turned up the heelishness since the rest of the Elite left and Villain Enterprises formed. The story is right there with Marty seeking revenge for The Elite abandoning him. Then, maybe you also get PCO and Brody King when they're free to join Marty and Jimmy. Villain Enterprises going after the Elite & friends and the Inner Circle would make for a lot of awesome, fun matches.

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8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

If Marty is AEW-bound, I don't think an alliance with Jimmy Havoc would be a bad idea. Marty has turned up the heelishness since the rest of the Elite left and Villain Enterprises formed. The story is right there with Marty seeking revenge for The Elite abandoning him. Then, maybe you also get PCO and Brody King when they're free to join Marty and Jimmy. Villain Enterprises going after the Elite & friends and the Inner Circle would make for a lot of awesome, fun matches.

Ughhhh, I really wish people would stop trying to will it into reality that fuckin’ PCO and Brody King will go to AEW. Let them stay in ROH - please.

If they go after anyone in the next few months, it should be Marty and Rush.

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Agreed 100%. Dragon Lee, Roosh (contract is up at the end of the year, I'd imagine the same for his brother), and Scurll should be the priority from ROH. Cobb too even if he has been officially deemed as Shit™ after a subpar G1. 

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Cobb's hit and miss on high caliber performance, but getting him into a flow with a character and an objective would help him greatly.  I'd have to assume that all these names being mentioned are on the radar.  Marty obviously being number 1, and very little doubt that he'll be wearing an AEW 'uniform' by year's end.  As far as his Enterprises - I wanna see Marty saddle up with a disgruntled Hangman (unless we can get a Dustin/Hangman tag team).  Rush and Dragon Lee, sure, they're good, but I think along with Marty and Cobb, that King is kinda the real get.  He's fresh and young (I assume?), and I don't think we've yet seen the best out of him.  Or Cobb for that matter.  And the big guys seem to be more of a need.  I think a year or so long PCO run to retirement would make for great TV.  Rush and Dragon Lee are both clearly talented with a lot of upside, and both would be nice signings, but the availability of good to great cruiserweights seems to be much more flush than the heavys.  

Re-watching this week's show.  The atmosphere when they open up inside the arena is infectious.  Ppl tuning in and getting a taste of this will certainly help strike some curiosity and interest.  Following that up with an opening match like the Bucks-PP is going to help increase this fanbase.  It'll take some time, but they seem patient enough to let it happen.  Also, Mark Quinn's quad dives to the floor were incredible.  The last one being the reverse flip that just blows the roof off the place.  These moments are golden.    

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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13 hours ago, OctopusCinema said:

I enjoy Havok’s finger biting offense. I enjoy the flips and the big moves of the other guys, but sometimes I just want a guy eating another guy’s fingers. I don’t need him to be a world champion or be in big storylines. Just to occasionally put mid-carders hands in his mouth. 

 

So a poor man's Iizuka?

 

 

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15 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Cobb's hit and miss on high caliber performance, but getting him into a flow with a character and an objective would help him greatly.  I'd have to assume that all these names being mentioned are on the radar.  Marty obviously being number 1, and very little doubt that he'll be wearing an AEW 'uniform' by year's end.  As far as his Enterprises - I wanna see Marty saddle up with a disgruntled Hangman (unless we can get a Dustin/Hangman tag team).  Rush and Dragon Lee, sure, they're good, but I think along with Marty and Cobb, that King is kinda the real get.  He's fresh and young (I assume?), and I don't think we've yet seen the best out of him.  Or Cobb for that matter.  And the big guys seem to be more of a need.  I think a year or so long PCO run to retirement would make for great TV.  Rush and Dragon Lee are both clearly talented with a lot of upside, and both would be nice signings, but the availability of good to great cruiserweights seems to be much for flush than the heavys.  

Re-watching this week's show.  The atmosphere when they open up inside the arena is infectious.  Ppl tuning in and getting a taste of this will certainly help strike some curiosity and interest.  Following that up with an opening match like the Bucks-PP is going to help increase this fanbase.  It'll take some time, but they seem patient enough to let it happen.  Also, Mark Quinn's quad dives to the floor were incredible.  The last one being the reverse flip that just blows the roof off the place.  These moments are golden.    

Man, Roosh is a heavy and has more charisma than anybody on the roster besides Jericho. He's a star even if he gets complacent in-ring and mails it in from time to time. Dragon Lee is more of what you're talking about. He's still a gem and one of the better, more explosive high flyers out there but he doesn't bring a lot other than great matches. Conversely, Rush is so charismatic and good on the mic, you don't even need him out there trying to learn English. Just let him rip people in Spanish and if you want to subtitle him for YouTube or hype vids go for it. 

Brody King seems like the nicest guy and from everything I've been told this is truth. However, I've spouted my views on him pretty regularly, so I'll keep it short. He projects fake tough guy. He has time to improve but I'm not really a fan and going for King over Roosh is madness in my mind. You want the next big star Hispanic or not, you want Roosh. You want a guy who looks like a tattooed soft big man with angry faces, sure, go for King. His offense is way too complicated/fancy for what he's trying to portray too and is often delivered at half speed awkwardly. Maybe touring NJPW more could help him tighten his shit up.

If I could pick just two somewhat realistic gets, I'd go with Rush and Tessa. Both have undeniable star aura and could be significant draws.

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28 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

Man, Roosh is a heavy and has more charisma than anybody on the roster besides Jericho. He's a star even if he gets complacent in-ring and mails it in from time to time. Dragon Lee is more of what you're talking about. He's still a gem and one of the better, more explosive high flyers out there but he doesn't bring a lot other than great matches. Conversely, Rush is so charismatic and good on the mic, you don't even need him out there trying to learn English. Just let him rip people in Spanish and if you want to subtitle him for YouTube or hype vids go for it. 

Brody King seems like the nicest guy and from everything I've been told this is truth. However, I've spouted my views on him pretty regularly, so I'll keep it short. He projects fake tough guy. He has time to improve but I'm not really a fan and going for King over Roosh is madness in my mind. You want the next big star Hispanic or not, you want Roosh. You want a guy who looks like a tattooed soft big man with angry faces, sure, go for King. His offense is way too complicated/fancy for what he's trying to portray too and is often delivered at half speed awkwardly. Maybe touring NJPW more could help him tighten his shit up.

If I could pick just two somewhat realistic gets, I'd go with Rush and Tessa. Both have undeniable star aura and could be significant draws.

I don't disagree with what you're saying of King, but to me he seems to have some serious upside especially with that size and agility.  But yeah, he's definitely hit and miss.   

I don't see a lot of ROH and even less CMLL, so I don't quite get Roosh.  I think you're probably correct, but I'm curious what you, or anybody here, would recommended as far as Rush's best matches and a sampling of his promo ability.  I like the idea of promos in Spanish with english subtitles.  Have I underestimated his size - you seem to think he's a heavyweight?  Further, the look and style of Rush, from what I've seen, is kinda cornball and doesn't make him stand out to me as a rising star. From what I understand Rush is a huge draw in Mexico, so I assume you're correct on the potential of Next Hispanic wrestling superstar.      

It's neither here nor there, but both he and especially his brother Dragon Lee sport tights that don't leave a whole lot to the imagination.  A very homoerotic tandem - 'not that there's anything wrong with that'. 

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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