LoneWolf&Subs Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, Edwin said: Peak goalpost moving. Please, I’m using advanced Sabermetrics to figure this out. I would share these with everybody here, but now I’m not gonna. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 If this was WWE, Orange Cassidy and Isaiah Cassidy would somehow be relatives lol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 In a tag match, two people win and two people lose. In a trios match, three win and three lose. But in a four corners match, three lose but only one wins. So booking lots of three way and four way matches makes the roster overall accumulate more losses than wins and turns everyone's record to shit. So there's a good reason not to have many of them. Good. Overexposed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edwin Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: Please, I’m using advanced Sabermetrics to figure this out. I would share these with everybody here, but now I’m not gonna. Alright, that was a fun way to keep entertained at work for 45 minutes. Love you folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I think that gets to what I don't like about the records. If you're the one taking a pinfall in a three or four way match then you should show a loss on your record. Everyone else probably shouldn't. I think. More than that, I tend to disagree with showing the overall record. I think that confuses things more than anything else. Over a long enough period of time, that overall record is going to look like shit for most people outside of a couple wrestlers. If you show a singles or tag record then fine. Maybe the commentary points out what someone's overall record is to give some additional weight to a match, but don't show that record on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I still think the on-screen promoting of wins/losses are going to eventually go away once they realize how genuinely cumbersome of a device it is to use in the context of a weekly wrestling show. As mentioned earlier, EVOLVE abandoned it after a while back when they were still only running 1-2 shows a month. That said, once Cody gave the explanation that it's like college football rankings, that made how they are handling things make a little more sense, if only because I am numb to college football rankings outside of the Top 4 at the end of the season seeming incredibly random and arbitrary on who drops how many spots each week after a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, clintthecrippler said: I still think the on-screen promoting of wins/losses are going to eventually go away once they realize how genuinely cumbersome of a device it is to use in the context of a weekly wrestling show. As mentioned earlier, EVOLVE abandoned it after a while back when they were still only running 1-2 shows a month. I think this is what eventually happens as well. Honestly, it's all a little backwards. Showing wins and losses this early is kinda dumb because most of these people haven't had more than a few matches. Like, when UFC started, they're not showing everyone's MMA record because there wasn't one to show. I don't even think on screen records were shown for everyone on the card until much, much, much later when things are more established. And I don't see how they don't find it to be cumbersome eventually, whether they're showing the records now or if they actually started it later. It's just going to be a mess. The best thing to do is to eventually treat "wins and losses matter" like how NJPW does. That's essentially what I want - the NJPW model. I just want this to eventually resemble NJPW and you don't need to show wins and losses for everyone to do that. So maybe eventually they stop showing those or only show those records in certain instances, but for now, I'm not going to be too concerned over who's challenging who this early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octopus Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Finally watched Dark. Big fan of its presentation. Tony sayin badabing, then match. Fun watch to start my morning today. Orange Cassidy is going to be big. Keep him as the sideman to Best Friends and that’s money. All his spots lead to big pops. JR did not care about half the matches. You can tell when he doesn’t get it. But in a weird way it kind of puts the guys over. Of course this old timer isn’t going to get the bits, type of feel. Excalibur did a good job to spin it and get JR back on track or to inadvertently praise what’s going on. The only thing I don’t like is him calling out people “standing around” just to crap on the moment. Spin it better to say that might be costly or if it’s a young guy that their inexperience is showing. Not just that everyone is standing around. The Hybrid 2 is a garbage name. But I loved how pricking they were. Jack Evans cockiness leading to a face dive when he entered the ring was priceless. They just look hatable with their bright green jackets. Lucha Bros are hella over. Private Party is fun. I’m excited to see all they’ll do in the future. Lots of potentially good segments. The women’s tag was great, but the crowd was pretty dead. Did they shoot this after the show? Allie has charisma. I was really impressed with her. Great facial expressions. Brea Priestly was great too. I could see her becoming the main heel of the division. Looks strong but manages to still do great heel hiding behind ropes work. I was really irritated with her head kick botch from the PPV, but this match showed me a better side of her. I’m starting to see what people were complaining about with Brit Baker. Very monotone face. Mainly how awkward her color commentary on Dynamite came across. But I finally noticed it in the match. She’s all business, which isn’t bad. But is noticeable when you’re with such visually expressive people. I’m still interested in the character and enjoy her new finisher of pulling teeth. Penelope is money. I could see her being popular down the line. Darby vs CIMA was very good. I really liked how they made it apparent that he never actually landed the Coffin Drop. I when it was finally hit and ended the match, I popped. I really like CIMA’s roll in the company. An acknowledged legend that can still go but is maybe past his prime. Great to put over Darby and give Kenny one of his few wins. Jurassic Express is great. That is all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, Craig H said: I think this is what eventually happens as well. Honestly, it's all a little backwards. Showing wins and losses this early is kinda dumb because most of these people haven't had more than a few matches. Like, when UFC started, they're not showing everyone's MMA record because there wasn't one to show. I don't even think on screen records were shown for everyone on the card until much, much, much later when things are more established. And I don't see how they don't find it to be cumbersome eventually, whether they're showing the records now or if they actually started it later. It's just going to be a mess. The best thing to do is to eventually treat "wins and losses matter" like how NJPW does. That's essentially what I want - the NJPW model. I just want this to eventually resemble NJPW and you don't need to show wins and losses for everyone to do that. So maybe eventually they stop showing those or only show those records in certain instances, but for now, I'm not going to be too concerned over who's challenging who this early on. I don't know it's so much cumbersome (I mean even the smallest boxing and MMA promotions can get on BoxRec or MMA.tv or Sherdog), but you have to have forethought as to why this person's record is what it is. I still like that on ShoBox, Steve Farhood will tell if this guy has fought all taxi cab drivers, why this guy has no knockouts on his record, or why this guy has not fought in 2 and 1/2 years because he does bricklaying on the side or various promotional issues. He does the thinking and analyzing for you so it's just not a graphic on the screen. That's the whole purpose of it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Infinit said: If this was WWE, Orange Cassidy and Isaiah Cassidy would somehow be relatives lol Knowing Vince’s love of Irish wrestlers / gimmicks then there’s every chance they would have been ‘The fighting Irish Cassidy boys’ ”Goddamit pal, re-hire Big Cass right now.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, OctopusCinema said: The women’s tag was great, but the crowd was pretty dead. Did they shoot this after the show? That and the two tag matches were filmed after the show. Darby/CIMA was before the show. Which makes me wonder if they should re-think the dark match structure. Between dark matches and TV it was about three hours which I guess is the norm now for wrestling shows (prefer shorter if possible) I wouldn't be mad if they cut a match for timing sake but if they must do three then make the last match be all out crazy. For example with last week I'd have swapped around the 8-man and 6-man tags so you end the night on a strong note. Or maybe even have two dark matches before TV and two after. Whatever method is use to help keep the audience engaged would be fine with me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSC Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Un-named faction is twitter-official now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Craig H said: Or you could, I don't know, not care so freaking much about how it's determined. They're pretty much inviting this by pretending it's going to make sense. All told, it's fine that they're setting up a match to elevate a midcard guy for a title match on TV and it's fine that they don't want to touch any of the real legitimate contenders right now. I'm just tickled that every time they'll want to do this, people will need to tie themselves into knots to justify it through the lens of the win/loss system they seem to think is brilliant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Has anybody on here once said it's brilliant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, CSC said: Un-named faction is twitter-official now. I meant to point this out last night. I was setting up my recording, and my cable company and/or TSN had Jericho and Guevara described as members of a faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Oyaji said: Has anybody on here once said it's brilliant? Not to my knowledge. I'm more putting this on whichever EVP is out there doing the twisting. And I don't know what goes on in their heads. Rather than think it's brilliant, they may already be tired of spinning paper-thin "logic." Be interesting to see where we are in six months. Edited October 9, 2019 by West Newbury Bad Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I like that they have win/loss records but it’s wrestling so kayfabed rankings are fine by me too. There’s space between mathematically determining the next challenger based on TV matches and having someone who’s been losing or not even on TV suddenly get a title shot, that’s where AEW has to live or things will get complicated. I watched Dark on my lunch and it was pretty great. I understand some of the criticisms with the women’s match but they didn’t bother me too much since there was some cool stuff in there and Allie showed up finally. I still think Scorpio Sky should spin off the SCU for a singles run sooner than later given his age. Jurassic Express rules too and I feel like they have more legs as a unit than SCU at this point. Stoked for Dynamite tonight! Wrestling finally feels like appointment viewing again. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Wins/Losses: maybe in the long run this won't work, but I see nothing wrong with the company choosing two wrestlers to fight for the number 1 contender spot and giving a reason based on their performances. That's a lot more than wrestling fans are used to. Further there's nothing wrong with a discussion over whether or not those two are worthy, and if maybe another wrestler is more worthy. Count me on board with this somewhat unorthodox idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 The only reason I’d want them to have a win/loss record is if leads to some sort of playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I am going to put this in this thread just to boost the signal Quote There is a chance that a portion of tonight's AEW show will not air on TNT tonight. Today's St. Louis Cardinals vs. Atlanta Braves baseball playoff game starts at 5:02 p.m. Eastern and will air on TBS. There is also a Washington Nationals vs. Los Angeles Dodgers came on TBS scheduled to start at 8:37 p.m. If the Cardinals game goes past 8:37 p.m., unlikely but possible, one of the two games would be put on TNT with the other on TBS until the Cardinals game ends. To offset this, AEW is scheduled to air live on both TNT and Tru TV for the two hours, which, with airing on two stations, would increase the potential audience. If the Cardinals game goes long, there could be a period where TNT goes to baseball, and AEW would only air on Tru TV. But TNT would return to the AEW show from Boston as soon as the first game ends. The complete two hour show will be replayed at 10 p.m. Eastern on TNT. And considering they have yet to complete two innings... the 1st game is running long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Bottom of the sixth now. I can see it done on time with a few quick innings, given that it's a blowout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 If this game were being played in Hell in a Cell, the umps would have called it by now. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 (edited) Didn't EVOLVE or DG-USA try wins and losses stats for a while? I think TNA even had a rankings system for a while during the Eric Bischoff but they ultimately abandoned it because well they are TNA and were/are utterly incompetent. Edited October 10, 2019 by TheVileOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: I think TNA even had a rankings system for a while during the Eric Bischoff but they ultimately abandoned because well they are TNA and were/are utterly incompetent. I think they only did that during the Bound For Glory series, which they dropped when Bischoff was done there. It was... not the best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: I think they only did that during the Bound For Glory series, which they dropped when Bischoff was done there. It was... not the best. I dug this up. It's from April 2010. I think these were the rankings where fans could vote the Top 10 contenders for the world title, then when guys like Desmond Wolf (Nigel) and Samoa Joe were getting all the votes it crimped their shitty booking style. And then I think when Desmond Wolf was regularly getting No. 1 he finally got a world title match and it was like a 3 minute throwaway match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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