Random Boxing Thoughts/News v. 7

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 hours ago, Liam said:

Two questions that somewhat go hand in hand:

Are there any boxing magazines worth subscribing to? Fancy reading up a bit more on current fight game stuff.

Also, how far back does the digital The Ring archive go back (if anyone knows due to being a subscriber)?

Cheers

It's been a minute since I looked at a boxing magazine. I'm pretty sure there are a few out there, but I believe most of the writers have moved most of their content online (The Athletic being a big one since it's big name writers across all sports). It may be different with the UK because the domestic scene has managed to be bustling despite covid-19. Plus, I don't think boxing right now is big enough to support anything out of The Ring here in the United States.

Some research shows there was Boxing Monthly (which was discontinued earlier this year) and also Boxing News. However, it looks like the latter covers the sport from a historical sense with most of the content looking at classic fights and rivalries. It does look like it's at least bi-monthly.

For current stuff, I'm going to assume The Ring is your best bet. As for the digital archives, it would probably be best to use the contact email they have to ask. It would probably depend on how far you want to go back.

[Jiji]

Golovkin looked good but Szeremeta offered up next to nothing so it's hard to gauge GGG really. Brother was slipping Szeremeta's 3 or 4 punch combinations with just head movement like he's Sweet Pea, lol. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Golovkin looked good but Szeremeta offered up next to nothing so it's hard to gauge GGG really. Brother was slipping Szeremeta's 3 or 4 punch combinations with just head movement like he's Sweet Pea, lol. 

Grisham asked Chris Algieri what was different in Golovkin since leaving Abel Sanchez and joining Johnathon Banks. Algieri's response was basically, "er..uh...not much."

And you know what? I completely agree with that. He hasn't changed anything up really. He always had crafty defensive skills and always had great punch selection which is amplified by his punching power. The only difference now is he's much older with diminished stamina. He was whooping Szeremeta's ass so bad through the first 3-4 rounds that he had catch his wind. In his heyday with Abel Sanchez, he never had to do that. This fight would have been over after the first two KDs max. He's still better than most middleweights, but he's clearly not the same fighter anymore. Say what you want about Canelo, but he doesn't take many rounds off cause he's tired. Maybe later on in his career we'll probably see that (maybe sooner rather than later) cause Canelo has racked up a ton of mileage on himself already. However, Golovkin is far past that point clearly. He has about three maybe four good rounds in him before he slows down. Then we get to see him fighting in short bursts. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

The best you can say for Callum Smith is he didn't get stopped. Matter of fact, that's really the only thing.

[Jiji]

Catching up on that right now and the biggest surprise is that, after looking at how many people are in the floor seating sections, COVID must be over. What the fuck? 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Catching up on that right now and the biggest surprise is that, after looking at how many people are in the floor seating sections, COVID must be over. What the fuck? 

I'm guessing the Alamodome was set up for around 13 percent capacity seeing as Gervonta Davis-Leo Santa Cruz was about 9,000 in a 72,000 seat stadium. Even with that, the protocol seemed a bit arbitrary as some folks were wearing masks but the folks closer to ringside were wearing masks. Like Floyd had one on for the most part but it would be on or off depending on when he was cheering for Gervonta Davis. For Spence-D. Garcia at AT&T Stadium, I don't think there was a mask requirement because I saw the Charlo twins just chilling out between fights on floor level without any masks with some of their friends.

I wasn't paying as close attention last night but the venue wasn't as lit as those two fights. Davis-LSC seemed to be more spread apart but I really don't have much evidence outside the eye test. It being Texas, the protocol may be as long as you stay six feet apart, you are good to go mask or no mask. However, it doesn't seemed to be enforced at all.

[Jiji]

I just laughed when I saw the relatively big sea of humanity for North America in 2020, many people without masks, and then there's a row of people ringside in hazmat suits. 

Smith took his beating well enough but he either has no power to trouble Canelo or wasn't able to let rip as the announcers suggested. Canelo looked good, but the Spence callout overshadowed it. That's a fairly big weight disparity, isn't it? Moving up from 147 to 160 to fight somebody who just won titles at 168. I like it if not just for being the antithesis of what most boxers and management teams do in the sport these days even if it isn't the safest or smartest fight. Big money though and he's got a built-in "excuse" should he lose.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

I just laughed when I saw the relatively big sea of humanity for North America in 2020, many people without masks, and then there's a row of people ringside in hazmat suits. 

It's nothing compared to some of the NFL games in Texas, Florida, and like parts of the midwest. Not even close. Now the hazmat suit shit surprised me when I saw it because it looked like something out the Beastie Boys Intergalactic video or the film Arrival.

5 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I just laughed when I saw the relatively big sea of humanity for North America in 2020, many people without masks, and then there's a row of people ringside in hazmat suits. 

Smith took his beating well enough but he either has no power to trouble Canelo or wasn't able to let rip as the announcers suggested. Canelo looked good, but the Spence callout overshadowed it. That's a fairly big weight disparity, isn't it? Moving up from 147 to 160 to fight somebody who just won titles at 168. I like it if not just for being the antithesis of what most boxers and management teams do in the sport these days even if it isn't the safest or smartest fight. Big money though and he's got a built-in "excuse" should he lose.

I think Spence's ceiling is 154 whereas Canelo has been a full fledged middleweight and super middleweight for several years now who is talented enough to beat light heavyweights. He just never fought at 168 until a couple years ago and then the Callum Smith fight. The problem is Canelo is too much of a puncher for Spence to handle when you have that big of a weight disparity. At least with something like RJJ (a guy who spent the better half of his career as really a SMW) vs. Tito Trinidad (a guy whose optimum weight was 154), Jones didn't have much punching power left by then. So it was target practice, but he didn't really have Trinidad in trouble at any point. The similarity would be that Trinidad's punches were like nats landing on Jones. It was like Roy was being hit by a small child. 

I think it was Sergio Mora who brought up the Ryan Rhodes fight last night in reference to when was the time Canelo had a 12th round KO. Honestly, that version of Canelo would have been more fairer matchup for Spence because he was at least a junior middleweight then. He was half as good as he is now, but the weight was close to what Spence is. However, that was like a decade ago. Canelo is a full grown man now. He has fought several guys much bigger, stronger, and hit harder than Errol Spence who truly is a welterweight who could one day be a very good junior middleweight. 

It's funny because I was watching an old Floyd fight some months back, and Merchant brings up Floyd calling out Oscar who I think had start campaigning at 154. Floyd was probably at lightweight at the time, and Merchant made it seem like Floyd just had no chance against Oscar. However, in hindsight, it's clear people overrated Oscar's quickness and punching power. I don't think there was any version of Oscar that Floyd couldn't beat. Oscar always had a strange build to me and one that doesn't exist in boxing anymore (long and lanky with a tampering torso and crazy reach) in the smaller weight classes. If you watch the Ike Quartey fight, it was evident Oscar wasn't going to fair well against guys who could go punch for punch with him. Now usually smaller guys who weren't as active as him, he could utterly obliterate them as the much bigger fighter. I think that created an unwarranted aura around Oscar that he could be just this destroyer. Canelo is the complete antithesis of that. He's a much thicker built dude who has become a much better and more dynamic finisher as he moved up weight. Back when he was starting to fight better opposition, he was struggling back to get dudes out of there (for example, Matthew Hatton) or be consistent round to round. It was like he was stuck in first gear. Some of that would show up later on in other fights (against Trout and Lara specifically). That's why I wasn't so high on the training of Chepo and Eddy Reynoso. However, from the Kirkland fight on, he's shown people what he is capable of. The problems he had the first Golovkin fight, he was able to rectify in the second Golovkin fight. He's shown he can adapt.

I thought there was a time where maybe Demetrius Andrade or one of the Charlos could make it a tough night for him, but I think that window closed or starting to close. Andrade is very talented, but he has fought too many creampuffs. I think that was sort of the issue with Callum Smith too. I just never understood why some folks wanted Canelo to fight Callum Smith when his best win was George Groves. People were talking about Callum being the best of the three Smith brothers, but Canelo beat him as badly as he did Liam. I think 2013-2014 Canelo would probably drop some rounds to Andrade, but what would Andrade do when Canelo just launches a salvo on him? Andrade was a 2008 Olympian. In the 12 or so years he's been a pro, he was never in the ring with someone the caliber of Canelo. I think Jermall would be interesting against Canelo, but I think Canelo would do the better work over time. Spence to me is just too much of a war of attrition type fighter when he is in there with another elite fighter or at least the best in the weight class. That works when you're in there with someone who has about the same or lesser punching power than you. He's a very good boxer, but Canelo isn't in there just wildly swinging at people. He also isn't going to let Spence systematically break him down. I see it being Spence being soundly outpunched and kinda beat up for twelve rounds. To me, Artur Beterbiev would be the toughest matchup out there for him. Even then, Beterbiev has stretches of inexplicable inactivity (both in and out of the ring). He was able to beat the shit out of Gzodyk because Gzodyk was a come forward, aggressive fighter at heart even though he was a world class boxer. He's a bully who got outbullied by Beterbiev. However, I don't think Gzodyk was nearly the same quality fighter pound for pound as a Canelo. So if I had to rank opponents for Canelo right now by my preference, it would be:

1. Artur Beterbiev

2. Jermall Charlo

....

3a. Caleb Plant

3b. David Benavidez

5. Errol Spence

6. Demetrius Andrade

7. Golovkin/Everyone else

[Jiji]

Beterbiev seems like a high risk/low reward type of guy that smart boxers with popularity would do well to avoid, right?

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Beterbiev seems like a high risk/low reward type of guy that smart boxers with popularity would do well to avoid, right?

Here is my thing with Beterbiev...back when Adonis Stevenson, I thought he got too much of the blame for not fighting guys when really that whole crew of LHWs weren't in a rush to fight each other. When Gvozdyk fought Stevenson, Stevenson was past it. When Eleider Alvarez fought Kovalev the first time, Kovalev was starting to be past it. Now Eleider Alvarez is clearly done as a fighter. Dmitry Bivol has virtually disappeared. The only reason Gvozdyk and Beterbiev fought was both were under the same promotional banner (Top Rank) and both their previous fights were so underwhelming that you might as well cut to the chase. At 175, the only people really willing to fight anyone at anytime were Joe Smith Jr. and Jean Pascal, two guys far from being the top guys at 175. Light heavyweight is/was a sad state of affairs. Yes, I would say Beterbiev is high risk/low reward. However, a lot of that is his fault like a lot of guys who have been festering around light heavyweight. I don't think there any reason for Canelo to avoid him other than he just isn't a big name.

[Serious Darius Bagfelt]

Canelo won't fight Bivol or Beterbiev. If he goes back to 175 it will be to fight a guy like Pascal.  Beterbiev is double tough but is unlucky and has endless promotion and management drama. His inactivity will have to trip him up as he enters his later 30s. Spence is more likely to face a Charlo or two in his future. Charlo will most likely will move up and down to take fights against non PBC guys since they will be easierto negotiate.  Golovkin 3 probably happens soon if not next.  Billie Joe Saunders is in play but I get the feeling Saunders likes holding his belt and doesn't want to take on a tough challenge and rather fights tge scrubby mandatory challengers.

[Serious Darius Bagfelt]

6 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Was/is a bad time for 175. Stevenson wasn't going to be able to fight anywhere outside of Canada. And a couple tough Russians who aren't bombers with heavy fists like Kovalev to get some mainstream attention. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:

Canelo won't fight Bivol or Beterbiev. If he goes back to 175 it will be to fight a guy like Pascal.  Beterbiev is double tough but is unlucky and has endless promotion and management drama. His inactivity will have to trip him up as he enters his later 30s. Spence is more likely to face a Charlo or two in his future. Charlo will most likely will move up and down to take fights against non PBC guys since they will be easierto negotiate.  Golovkin 3 probably happens soon if not next.  Billie Joe Saunders is in play but I get the feeling Saunders likes holding his belt and doesn't want to take on a tough challenge and rather fights tge scrubby mandatory challengers.

I don't see why Canelo wouldn't fight Bivol unless Bivol turns it down. Bivol is just such a drab fighter to me. His fights are like watching paint dry. I think the only reason for Canelo to break free from being DAZN exclusive is to fight a Beterbiev because it makes more sense to fight him on ESPN or PPV. Moreover, just in general, there isn't entire crop of big name guys from 154-175 to fight. Canelo is by far the biggest name. If he fought Pascal, people would shit all over it. IMO Canelo broke away from his contract to go against the biggest available names people without being tied down in addition DAZN being able to pay him what he wants. In order to make the money he wants, he's going to have to take risks. Honestly, I don't there are many risks for him style wise but on paper there might be some out there.

[Elsalvajeloco]

7 minutes ago, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:

Was/is a bad time for 175. Stevenson wasn't going to be able to fight anywhere outside of Canada. And a couple tough Russians who aren't bombers with heavy fists like Kovalev to get some mainstream attention. 

The sport is always going to favor the A-side (if there is one) when it comes to how and when certain matches come together. Gvozdyk literally went from fighting Adonis Stevenson in front of several thousand people to fighting in front of a few hundred folks at ECW Arena. You would think the guys who weren't selling tickets would be in a rush to fight each other.

 

[Serious Darius Bagfelt]

Yes Canelo never struck me as a guy who would avoid a challenge even when he should have like Lara.  We will have to see.  Kovalev was used up and don't remember if he landed anything on Canelo that made him feel uncomfortable at 175. Canelo probably could beat a Bivol if Bivol comes in passive.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Serious Darius Bagfelt]

Nothing like rolling James Kirkland out on TV to get starched so we can watch brain damage happen in real time

[OSJ]

Jeebus fuck, why not just give Montiel a machete so he can fuck Kirkland up but good? Who the hell gives Kirkland a boxing license in 2020? I'm 63 years old and guarantee you I'm faster than he is.

[The Natural]

Still satisfying.

[Jiji]

That Ryan Garcia fight was a lot of fun but maaaaan did DAZN go all in with the Hail Mary to save their asses hyping Garcia up post-fight. I think the guys at the top of the division will be able to exploit his defense a lot more than Luke Campbell, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. Speaking of showing Luke Campbell no respect, the ring announcer dropping "A KINGDOM WAS CONQUERED."  Brother could've been out cold and he was going to drop that fuckin' line. Jesus Christ.

[Elsalvajeloco]

40 minutes ago, Jiji said:

That Ryan Garcia fight was a lot of fun but maaaaan did DAZN go all in with the Hail Mary to save their asses hyping Garcia up post-fight. I think the guys at the top of the division will be able to exploit his defense a lot more than Luke Campbell, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT. Speaking of showing Luke Campbell no respect, the ring announcer dropping "A KINGDOM WAS CONQUERED."  Brother could've been out cold and he was going to drop that fuckin' line. Jesus Christ.

They (DAZN) see dollar signs written all over him. With that said, I don't think he's the boogeyman they were making him out to be. It was impressive he got off the canvas because he got hit FLUSH. If that was someone with just a little bit more power, he would have been resting on the mat with no count needed. He's a very impressive combination puncher and Chepo Reynoso has him going down to the body like a Canelo. However, Canelo has a modicum of defense. Garcia will stand right in front of you and trade defense for more offense. If he does that against guys on his level and not just a high level fringe contender like Campbell, he's going to get stopped. 

[The Natural]

 

[Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

I hope to high heaven they get to fight in front of a packed house at least once.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Wrong thread, folks.