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Random Boxing Thoughts/News v. 7


Elsalvajeloco

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9 minutes ago, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:

So called woYou live in some bizarre world where suddenly Wilder is going to suddenly develop even marginal boxing skills all of a sudden in his mid 30's.  

I live in this bizarre world where he was world champion for like five years. It's crazy on this world.

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7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 Plenty of people felt like Pacquiao, having moved up several weight classes and against much bigger fighters than JMM, could take Marquez's power. What happened in the last fight against Marquez? Something that didn't happen in the first three fights. Manny went down and didn't get back up. 

I mean... JMM kinda showed up to that fight late in his career with an all new physique and muscles where he never had muscles before. I think if we are honest with ourselves we can figure out a reason why he suddenly had the power to drop Pacquiao beyond "hey, in boxing sometimes things happen".

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15 minutes ago, username said:

I mean... JMM kinda showed up to that fight late in his career with an all new physique and muscles where he never had muscles before. I think if we are honest with ourselves we can figure out a reason why he suddenly had the power to drop Pacquiao beyond "hey, in boxing sometimes things happen".

Re: Memo Heredia

It's not like Marquez was feather fisted prior to that fight. He showed he had the ability to stun Pacquiao in the three previous fights. Manny made the cardinal sin of running directly into a punch.

Edit: Also, let's not act like Manny hasn't been accused on being on something. So worst case scenario, it's guy on PEDs vs. another guy on PEDs. JMM hasn't fought in several years now. Manny Pacquiao is still a top five welterweight.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I also recommend everyone watch Unforgivable Blackness just for Keith David's amazing narration along. We are coming up on the 110th anniversary of Johnson/Jeffries on July 4th.

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28 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I also recommend everyone watch Unforgivable Blackness just for Keith David's amazing narration along. We are coming up on the 110th anniversary of Johnson/Jeffries on July 4th.

Not only is Keith David's narration fantastic but you've got Samuel L Jackson reading Johnson's quotes. Wow.

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Stanley Crouch in Unforgivable Blackness is the best. He just says something insightful and hilarious every time he's on the screen. This documentary is like 10/10 and I'm only 30 minutes in.

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1 minute ago, Oyaji said:

Stanley Crouch in Unforgivable Blackness is the best. He just says something insightful and hilarious every time he's on the screen. This documentary is like 10/10 and I'm only 30 minutes in.

You might want to get a count on how many times the term "gandy dancer" is used.

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After enjoying the Jack Johnson documentary, I finally got around to watching the Showtime documentary on Liston from last year. Fantastic, as expected. Sonny Liston was America. While Jack Johnson fought so hard to upend the society in which he lived (for personal reasons, not selfless, broader reasons beyond himself), Liston was nothing if not a mirror.

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  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Jiji said:

That is going to be great. I'm excited for that.

Hopefully....this could be a Hatton/Kostya Tszyu situation where Lomachenko has so many miles on his body (from his amateur days) that he is no longer the same fighter he once was. If so, then we're about to see Teofimo Lopez ascend to the thrown.

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1 hour ago, Jiji said:

Thomas Hearns 2.0? Of course the boxing side is the least important but fuck. 

I didn't get to see much of Maizon (just a few bouts here and there) so I don't know if the Hearns comparison sticks, but I do know that Golden Boy in the post Haymon era doesn't veer outside their Mexican and Mexican-American prospects. You may get a handful from Central Asia/Russia/Ukraine and like a Blair Cobb, D'Mitrius Ballard, or Lamont Roach Jr.. However, plenty of those names like an Eddie Gomez are holdovers from before the split with Haymon that weren't advised by Haymon. They don't really go outside the box with many of their signees. So the guy had to be talented. Gone far too soon in any respect.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I had somehow never seen Taylor/Chavez I before. I had heard all about the controversial ending and how it's an all-time classic, but man... Taylor looked so good through 9 rounds. He was beating Chavez at his own game, inside fighting, landing three punches for every punch Chavez landed. How in the fucking hell did one judge have it for Chavez?! Anyway, Taylor's legs were gone by the end of that 9th maybe even earlier. He was strictly fighting on the inside because he couldn't stay on his toes anymore. I'm sure the odd Chavez body blow and some of those cleaner headshots helped that along but dude had thrown well over 1000 punches going into the 12th and most of them in combination. Even though pretty much all of the drama comes in the 10th and 12th round besides the initial shock of Taylor's ass whipping he handed Chavez initially, I can certainly see why it's considered so damned great. Thoughts on the Steele stoppage?

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1 hour ago, Jiji said:

I had somehow never seen Taylor/Chavez I before. I had heard all about the controversial ending and how it's an all-time classic, but man... Taylor looked so good through 9 rounds. He was beating Chavez at his own game, inside fighting, landing three punches for every punch Chavez landed. How in the fucking hell did one judge have it for Chavez?! 

That would help begin the feeling and sentiment that the fix was in for Chavez before several of his bouts later in his career. Chuck Giampa would make up for it by scoring the first JCC-Randall fight (SD for Randall) 116-111 for Randall, the widest of the three scores (114-113 on the other two cards).

Quote

Anyway, Taylor's legs were gone by the end of that 9th maybe even earlier. He was strictly fighting on the inside because he couldn't stay on his toes anymore. I'm sure the odd Chavez body blow and some of those cleaner headshots helped that along but dude had thrown well over 1000 punches going into the 12th and most of them in combination. Even though pretty much all of the drama comes in the 10th and 12th round besides the initial shock of Taylor's ass whipping he handed Chavez initially, I can certainly see why it's considered so damned great. Thoughts on the Steele stoppage?

It's been a while since I seen the fight (probably six or seven years). I don't remember having a super big problem with the stoppage, but then again, part of that is knowing Meldrick's condition later on in life. However, I would say it was still a bad stoppage. You can clearly tell it affected Richard Steele's officiating years later. The narrative for every big bout he reffed until he stepped away from boxing was, "Is Richard Steele gonna fuck up again?" It doesn't help the Tyson-Ruddock I stoppage was a year and a day after Chavez-Taylor I. So it was a double whammy.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I watched Benn/McClellan for the first time and it's one of those fights that makes you question why you're watching combat sports. Benn/Eubank fights are exquisite. Benn/Barkley was a mercifully shorter version of this fight with McClellan. Has to be one of the more violent displays in combat sports of the modern age. I get that this probably happened quite frequently back in the pre-War years in boxing, but my God. Benn bastardized Patterson's gazelle punch by adding some of Frazier's reckless abandon in there. He'd leap with a lead hook from out of range and hit McClellan with everything he's got multiple times. Little artistry, all guts 'n' violence in this. McClellan, you could tell, was the more skilled boxer but his power was too much for Benn early and he fell in love with it. He'd still throw jabs but not enough. I do wonder at what stage the blood clot developed. Probably in that vicious 8th round but both guys must've suffered several concussions each. Ferdie Pacheco, the guy who tried to save Ali's well being and career from himself, called McClellan out when the fight was going on but then was the first to realize how badly Gerald was when he slouched down in the corner after the fight. He quickly recognized it was either an orbital fracture, brain damage, or heart problem and that the dude wasn't okay. All the unnecessary seconds in boxing and the bodies around the ring swarming around Gerald post-fight... that's an ugly scene. Fucking Don King and his shitty little flags are over there with the dude getting emergency attention. One of his cornermen is slapping Gerald's face trying to wake him up. They went ahead with the Benn interview, with all of his people in the ring, while they're attending to McClellan. Shit is hard to believe, harder to watch.

On a lighter note, it doesn't get more mid '90s than this:

50131250113_9fb095d6d9_b.jpg

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I had no idea Michael Watson suffered a similar fate to McClellan, though thankfully he's regained much of his abilities in comparison. The fact that there were no doctors at the fight and it took 8 minutes for some doctors in dinner jackets to show up and start helping Watson in 1991, not 1901, just does not compute in my mind. What the actual fuck? Did they not have paramedics at fights in the States at this time?

Edited by Jiji
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