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Raw is The Boss-Hug-Chair Connection - 9/2/2019


Overly Critical Man

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I'm not on the Seth Rollins hate bandwagon but after watching the new Smackdown commercial man he does stick out like a sore thumb as a top act, no?  Actually, I'm not buying him OR Braun.  That was part of the reason I said Sasha/Becky should close.   

Roman Reigns is getting great reactions finally,  I wonder how long before they pull the trigger on him because Seth ain't it..  

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Becky's on the cover of the game. She's positioned well in all these outside media things. When the producers of Billions pick up the phone and ask for a cameo next season, they'll be asking for Becky (I'm going to keep repeating this until I will it into existence). She's clearly top babyface over Seth. Might as well let her biggest match since Mania go on last, especially one against an opponent getting some buzz. Especially since Seth and Braun's stale "Can they coexist?" story is going on twice that night. I'm assuming the matches won't be back-to-back like Seth's Sting/Cena double-header a few years back. Is it gonna feel like a main event when they cart Seth and Braun out for a second time? Maybe to some people; what little audience is paying to attend these shows seems to like them. But it doesn't feel bigger than Lynch-Banks.

I'm trying to think of an argument for Kofi actually closing one of these things. As much as I like Orton's work, even I can't make those mental gymnastics work. 

The reactions Roman is getting are decent, but I think that support is a lot softer than some people realize. People are still playing nice with him because cancer sucks and he's not been thrust back into the title picture. When they flip that switch, we'll see what people really feel about him. I hope I'm wrong, but that babyface reaction he's getting now doesn't have that same visceral energy as those mixed reactions he's been getting the last few years. 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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Nobody is ever going to give a flying fuck about King Corbin, Constable Corbin, Flight Attendant Corbin, or even Maitre D' Corbin, because the stupid, petty, wishy washy company itself already proved how little faith they have in him when they chose to have him bungle the Money in the Bank cash-in. If the company ever wanted people to take him seriously, they never should have yanked the rug right out from under him like that. From that point on, he was the opposite of a made man. 

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I watched that Sasha/Becky promo segment just now.

Becky actually threw out some truth bombs, like Sasha being the center piece of NXT, Regal/HHH/Stephanie/etc giving her flowers after a match with Bayley, main eventing RAWs and PPVs with another person who has it all (Charlotte) - but when someone else gets the attention, Sasha throws a little fit.

Sasha comes out and responds with.. "nobody cared about you until Nia Jax broke your face" (not true) and "you'll be the Boss' bitch" at the end. In what fucking world did Sasha eviscerate Becky? Am I watching the wrong segment? Is it because Sasha said bitch? At least when Rhea Ripley did it on NXT it didn't sound so fake, because Rhea Ripley is a scary fucking woman.

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7 minutes ago, Casey said:

I watched that Sasha/Becky promo segment just now.

Becky actually threw out some truth bombs, like Sasha being the center piece of NXT, Regal/HHH/Stephanie/etc giving her flowers after a match with Bayley, main eventing RAWs and PPVs with another person who has it all (Charlotte) - but when someone else gets the attention, Sasha throws a little fit.

Sasha comes out and responds with.. "nobody cared about you until Nia Jax broke your face" (not true) and "you'll be the Boss' bitch" at the end. In what fucking world did Sasha eviscerate Becky? Am I watching the wrong segment? Is it because Sasha said bitch? At least when Rhea Ripley did it on NXT it didn't sound so fake, because Rhea Ripley is a scary fucking woman.

Truth is great, but you still need conviction when talking to the audience. Becky did not have any of the same level of conviction she had against say Charlotte or Ronda. There is a reason Rock was able to get away with saying the dumbest nonsensical shit for years.

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I mean, yeah, fair point. It's always felt like Becky was just playing a character - instead of growing into it and wearing it like a second skin (or, conviction, like you said) - when she's on the mic since all of this THE MAN stuff started. Sasha feels the same way, she's actually a better promo as a face (to me), and Bayley is just.... kinda there. Not good, but not bad. Just bland. Charlotte is far and away the best on the microphone and living inside that character.

But that doesn't answer the question of "in what world did Sasha eviscerate Becky?".

Edited by Casey
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All this bullshit crowd blaming. Somebody help me out here because I'm not watching weekly TV, but it seems to me that the crowd has no problem booing Daniel fucking Bryan most of the time. Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm not then I'm not really hearing any of these arguments.

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6 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Don't know. There is a reason why I like posting here and I don't go anywhere near places like reddit. 

The Murderers Row of Trash Takes should leave this stuff over there. ?

You're about the last guy who gets to rag on anyone for "trash takes."

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10 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Before Nia 

giphy.gif

After Nia

tenor.gif?itemid=12874589

So I guess we're retconning how over Becky was after she beat the piss out of Charlotte after that triple threat match at SummerSlam 2018. Gotcha. This Nia shit was in November, from August up until that moment in the gif, she was already over as fuck. Look at the lead-ups to Hell In A Cell and Evolution and tell me it was "crickets chirping". I know myself and @West Newbury Bad Boy have the custom flairs of "WE STAN ______" but good god if there was ever a stan for a wrestler on this board, it's you. I love Becky and other female wrestlers like Liv Morgan, but I can at least admit their flaws and discuss them. That's... not how it is with you, at all. And I think everybody here realizes that, and it's why you get so much shit for your fandom.

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10 minutes ago, just drew said:

You're about the last guy who gets to rag on anyone for "trash takes."

The only time we've ever interacted on here to my recollection is to discuss women's wrestling and in particular your hatred for the way Sasha told her employer to shove it. We discussed that at length.  You still bring it up weekly but we ran that horse over with a Mack truck. 

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1 minute ago, Casey said:

So I guess we're retconning how over Becky was after she beat the piss out of Charlotte after that triple threat match at SummerSlam 2018. Gotcha. This Nia shit was in November, from August up until that moment in the gif, she was already over as fuck. Look at the lead-ups to Hell In A Cell and Evolution and tell me it was "crickets chirping". I know myself and @West Newbury Bad Boy have the custom flairs of "WE STAN ______" but good god if there was ever a stan for a wrestler on this board, it's you. I love Becky and other female wrestlers like Liv Morgan, but I can at least admit their flaws and discuss them. That's... not how it is with you, at all. And I think everybody here realizes that, and it's why you get so much shit for your fandom.

Uh no, Becky has gotten solid reactions in the past but we're going to pretend that wasn't THE moment in her career to this point?  She was struggling on SDL for a long time and that was her big break. 

I get shit for my fandom because they don't like the way Sasha Banks walked out and I argued with them about it.  Then because they were mad about that,  pretend that she's now a bad worker or not over etc.     Don't blame me for it.   I can discuss flaws but why bother when the same people are trying to make believe the women who clearly need work are now good. Pointless. 

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54 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Uh no, Becky has gotten solid reactions in the past but we're going to pretend that wasn't THE moment in her career to this point?  She was struggling on SDL for a long time and that was her big break. 

I get shit for my fandom because they don't like the way Sasha Banks walked out and I argued with them about it.  Then because they were mad about that,  pretend that she's now a bad worker or not over etc.     Don't blame me for it.   I can discuss flaws but why bother when the same people are trying to make believe the women who clearly need work are now good. Pointless. 

FTR, you get shit for your fandom bc you say delusional things like "Sasha is a top 5 female in ring of all time." And then when people rightfully call you on what a ludicrous statement that is, you point to nonsense like how many instagram followers she has as some sort of excuse for her behavior offscreen while refusing to even address the salient points others make about the many negatives Sasha brings to the table. I'm as big a Bayley fan as you will find anywhere, but I can willingly admit there was a BIG lull in her career where I thought she probably deserved to get released. She got lazy in the ring and became actively bad. I'm happy she's had her resurgence, as she is a talented worker and works hard to improve her promos, but I am under no illusions that the criticisms others have voiced here about her are just because people don't like me or her. That's the difference, and that's why so many people give you shit for your "fandom." You refuse to admit that Sasha the character and/or Mercedes the worker are in any way less than transcendent, when that is nowhere near the case. She's had great moments, and she's had truly awful ones. Same as everyone on the roster. But sitting out for four months because she didn't get her way should be brought up whenever the discussion of whether or not she deserves a top spot is broached. It's unprofessional and points to a severe lack of maturity. And, since you ignored it before, I'll say it here too; I don't find her character believable. She's Vivica A. Fox, wagging her head and sassily finger pointing because it's how she thinks urban young women are supposed to express attitude. There's nothing at all "legit" about her character. I've lived in and around Atlanta my entire life, and I know what "wanna be hood" looks like, and Sasha is the poster child. That's why I don't see value in her character, not some imaginary "me and sasha vs the world" scenario that you've cooked up in your head. 

 

 

 

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See,  you disagree with me and that's fine but your opinions are just that.. just like me.    Instead of saying that's crazy and I'm crazy you could offer a counter to the argument. 

I don't know what other issues you have..  Look at the NXT thread in the network section.  Her whole heel run is being discussed right now.  She is playing the same exact character now that she was in NXT and it was hugely popular..  I don't even know how anyone could say it wasn't unless you weren't paying attention.  

If you have a problem with me saying Sasha Banks is a top 5 WWE women's performer of all time..  okay cool..  offer a counter to that.  Give me the 5 that are better. That's what I said too,  I didn't say ever in the world,  I said in WWE.  

She's had the two classic matches with Bayley.  She's had a host of classic matches with Charlotte. She's had an excellent match at Takeover with Becky. She had probably Ronda's best match.  She was the standout performer in the NXT Fatal 4 Way.  She was great in the Royal Rumble match.   I'm not going to list everything..   

Who has a better resume than her?  Charlotte? Maybe Asuka?  I don't even know right now..  I can't see an argument how she isn't top 5. 

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16 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

See,  you disagree with me and that's fine but your opinions are just that.. just like me.    Instead of saying that's crazy and I'm crazy you could offer a counter to the argument. 

I don't know what other issues you have..  Look at the NXT thread in the network section.  Her whole heel run is being discussed right now.  She is playing the same exact character now that she was in NXT and it was hugely popular..  I don't even know how anyone could say it wasn't unless you weren't paying attention.  

If you have a problem with me saying Sasha Banks is a top 5 WWE women's performer of all time..  okay cool..  offer a counter to that.  Give me the 5 that are better. That's what I said too,  I didn't say ever in the world,  I said in WWE.  

She's had the two classic matches with Bayley.  She's had a host of classic matches with Charlotte. She's had an excellent match at Takeover with Becky. She had probably Ronda's best match.  She was the standout performer in the NXT Fatal 4 Way.  She was great in the Royal Rumble match.   I'm not going to list everything..   

Who has a better resume than her?  Charlotte? Maybe Asuka?  I don't even know right now..  I can't see an argument how she isn't top 5. 

No, because people have done that multiple times, and it's still a "bu-bu-bu- instagram!" response with you. And again, you make no attempt to counter the criticisms made. You just spout off subjective nonsense. But, since you asked, here's a list of five better;

Charlotte

Bayley

Trish

Madusa

Beth Phoenix.

These are just the first five off the top of my head, and aren't in any particular order. She isn't special. She's just another in a long series of acts that got lost in translation once they started playing to actual audiences that weren't just gathered to celebrate how "in the know" they are. And none of the "bests" you listed change that. Sorry.

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2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Before Nia 

giphy.gif

After Nia

tenor.gif?itemid=12874589

 

Before Charlotte/after Charlotte you mean, right?

 

After the Nia thing she could main event Mania, but she was already getting the best reactions in the company for a few months by that point.

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3 minutes ago, just drew said:

No, because people have done that multiple times, and it's still a "bu-bu-bu- instagram!" response with you. And again, you make no attempt to counter the criticisms made. You just spout off subjective nonsense. But, since you asked, here's a list of five better;

Charlotte

Bayley

Trish

Madusa

Beth Phoenix.

These are just the first five off the top of my head, and aren't in any particular order. She isn't special. She's just another in a long series of acts that got lost in translation once they started playing to actual audiences that weren't just gathered to celebrate how "in the know" they are. And none of the "bests" you listed change that. Sorry.

Yeah....   I think we're done here.   Thank God.  ?

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He just offered you a counter to Sasha being a Top 5 all-time in WWE, and you immediately dismiss it and don't even try to engage in conversation over that. God knows I don't agree with @just drew on pretty much anything WWE, mainly due to his irrational hatred of all things Seth Rollins, but, I mean, you asked for a counter argument, and he gave it to you. And that's your response? Really?

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6 minutes ago, Casey said:

He just offered you a counter to Sasha being a Top 5 all-time in WWE, and you immediately dismiss it and don't even try to engage in conversation over that. God knows I don't agree with @just drew on pretty much anything WWE, mainly due to his irrational hatred of all things Seth Rollins, but, I mean, you asked for a counter argument, and he gave it to you. And that's your response? Really?

How was that a counter argument?  What are we basing this off of...  I laid out in short was Sasha's resume is..  I didn't list everything noteworthy but I listed a lot of the major stuff. His "counter" was listing 5 women sure..     whose resumes quite obviously do not compare.  Well,  Charlotte's does. Trish?  Beth Phoenix?  .... Trish is one of my favorite women performers but even I can't say that with a straight face that her work is any comparison. 

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@Casey What would you say are Trish's ten best matches?   She had a long rivalry with Lita that resulted in the first RAW women's main event. I like that match a lot.  They also had Trish's retirement match.   Trish had a street fight with Victoria that was pretty good.  She also had the WrestleMania 22 match with Mickie James that I felt was one of the better matches on that show.  I'm going to struggle to come up with an entire top ten.  I liked her comeback match vs. Charlotte.    I wouldn't place any of those matches above Sasha's top 5 matches at all. 

This isn't the entire argument either.  He didn't just say that Sasha is not as good as those 5 women, he also said she's just another girl on the roster.  So what's the rest of the current roster's resume look like vs. Sasha?  We really going to be that ridiculous here?  It's pointless. 

Edited by Niners Fan in CT
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Drew admitted Sasha's had some great moments. But all you seem to want to do is dismiss his opinion as some delusion because he doesn't want to "argue" with you. Or about her. When he knows what it's like.

Maybe you get the reaction you do because a lot of people have seen what happens when threads devolve into you re-litigating a handful of really good matches she's had that are mostly from 3-4 years ago. 

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12 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

How was that a counter argument?  What are we basing this off of...  I laid out in short was Sasha's resume is..  I didn't list everything noteworthy but I listed a lot of the major stuff. His "counter" was listing 5 women sure..     whose resumes quite obviously do not compare.  Well,  Charlotte's does. Trish?  Beth Phoenix?  .... Trish is one of my favorite women performers but even I can't say that with a straight face that her work is any comparison. 

You can't say it because it would require you admitting that Sasha isn't the best ever at everything of all time. 

btw, I thought of more women with better resumes than Sasha. You know, since the company had enough faith in them to allwo them at least one successful title defense on the main roster.

Paige

AJ Lee

Ivory

Jacqueline

Molly Holly

Asuka

Becky Lynch

Michelle McCool

Mickie James

Victoria

Bull Nakano

Wendi Richter

Moolah

Melina

Eve Torres

Natalya

Chyna

There's no objective measure that puts Sasha over the level of any of these women. And that's BEFORE you take into account the botches that have cost her ring time and ended Paige's career, the multiple broken noses she purposefully inflicted on Alexa Bliss because Sasha decided she and she alone was qualified to determine who was worthy of being in nxt and who wasn't, and the outbursts backstage. But she doesn't have to play by the same rules as everyone, right? 

Edited by just drew
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