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[SEPT 2019] WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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1 hour ago, Six String Orchestra said:

I think I need to go on a wrestling sabbatical or something. I used to really enjoy it, just watched NXT UK Takeover and the NXT on USA debut, felt bored out of my mind. Clash of Champions iv couldn't even bring myself to watch. 

You'll find that it's not the end of the world to stop watching for a few months or a year or more. The only thing you lose is the current stuff, and it's easy enough to catch up. Memphis and Georgia and NWA-WCW and ECW and 90's AJPW and anything else you might like aren't going anywhere.

Only the new stuff is affected. And in fact, it occurs to me that there's something to be said for letting other folks sift through all the junk on new TV, leaving behind the best recommended matches and angles. 

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15 minutes ago, nate said:

Round one of King Of Trios has a team with Scott Steiner facing a team with Nick Gage.

They had a dream singles match earlier this year iirc.

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13 minutes ago, Captain Kronos said:

You'll find that it's not the end of the world to stop watching for a few months or a year or more. The only thing you lose is the current stuff, and it's easy enough to catch up. Memphis and Georgia and NWA-WCW and ECW and 90's AJPW and anything else you might like aren't going anywhere.

Only the new stuff is affected. And in fact, it occurs to me that there's something to be said for letting other folks sift through all the junk on new TV, leaving behind the best recommended matches and angles.

I was going to post Orson Welles clapping here.  Use your imagination.

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9 minutes ago, cool arrow said:

I was going to post Orson Welles clapping here.  Use your imagination.

Modernity is for the birds. Progress is a pernicious fallacy.

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Some notes from the Calgary house show last night.

Opener and match of the night was Ricochet vs. Cesaro. Both got loud pops. Cesaro was wearing the skinny pants and running shoes again so I guess that's his new look now and not just "the airline lost his ring gear" like I thought when watching Raw. Both guys work great together and are hopefully bigger stars in a year from now.

Dana Brooke & Tamina vs. Alexa Bliss & Nikki Cross - I didn't even know Tamina was still working lately. Has she been on the road the whole time or is this the beginning of a comeback? I feel sorry for the people who get very little screen time and therefore have to walk out in front of a mostly quiet crowd amid hushed tones of "who's that?" Brooke did do some decent work in the match in terms of jawing with the crowd. Allow me just one moment of settledownitis to say that Alexa Bliss has a nice bum.

Viking Raiders vs Lucha Hose Party vs. OC - Decent match, not much to comment on

Robert Roode says he's glad to be back in Canada but pity it's in Calgary. Says Ziggler couldn't be bothered to come. Issues an open challenge and out comes Strowman for the loudest pop so far. This was the second best match of the night, not because of any ring work but just for pure entertainment. Roode did a hilariously ridiculous amount of cowardly stalling before finally locking up. I've always found him a bit dull so his comedy heeling impressed me here. Later, they did a seemingly unnecessary and unexpected spot for a house show where Strowman ran full speed and over the guardrail when Roode moved. Strowman is an absolute giant in person and sweats immensely, just pouring off him at the end. He was probably the star of the show, spending quite a while after the match with the fans signing autographs as he made his way back.

Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch - Both were over, but basically a nothing match. It seemed like they had a hard time getting coordinated with each other which is something I've noticed with Becky. She looks to be scrapping with people rather than working smoothly. Sasha brings in a chair, hits Becky with a weak jab to the stomach and gets the DQ. They tease a chair shot, but Sasha misses and Becky does her submission on her on top of the chair.

After the intermission, we come back to Cedric Alexander vs. Mojo Rawley. A dull match with Rawley in control mostly. Some boring chants broke out. I guess they figure a match like this is a good thing to put on after intermission as everyone gets back to their seats. I find Rawley dull as dishwater but he did a heel spot I've never seen before where he wiped sweat off the backs of his legs and flung it at the crowd which is probably the most memorable thing I've seen him do.

Natalya obviously gets the loudest pop of the night. She beats Lacey Evans who had run down Calgary in pre-taped segment earlier. Brings her (presumably) nieces and nephews into the ring afterwards to celebrate. There was a guy following her the whole time filming - maybe just her personal videographer or possibly the subject of a WWE doc.

Seth Rollins gets another loud pop. Place goes dark for Wyatt's entrance. Everyone's hugely into it - cheers mixed with awe-filled apprehension, but man his entrance took forever. Images flashed across the tron for maybe a full two minutes before he comes out. His new look is impressive in a Slipknot way but it's still the same guy wrestling. He seems to have gained some super powers though as he would no sell the curb stomp and just get right back up. By the way, either the move is very weak or Wyatt just takes it badly. It looks much better on TV with commentary covering for lack of a thud and I guess the shakey-zoom camera thing helps too. Match ends in a DQ after Wyatt doesn't stop choking him while in the ropes. Very anticlimactic ending to the show with the crowd confused and booing. Rollins tries to get his heat back with more curb stomps to keep him down, maybe 5 or 6. Wyatt then recovers to get the mandible claw and the flashing lights and then goes to the back. Rollins, selling the finish, just kinda slinks to the back too clapping some hands as he goes and the show's over. Like I said, bad way to end the show and they should've just put on Natalya to finish on a high. I get that Wyatt (and Sasha) need to be protected but there's better ways of doing it surely.

This was our 4th time attending in recent years and these were the best seats we had. I only looked for tickets a few weeks ago and we ended up with centre ice tickets behind the player's benches for a similar price to what we've paid previously for higher up seats. That was awesome seeing the action up close. I don't know if it's just because it's a house show and they work looser but it was easier to notice a lot of moves not connecting and the cooperation involved in putting on matches. It always makes me wonder how adults could ever have thought this stuff was real back in the day.

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1 hour ago, Iron Moose said:

Are there any (or have there been any) tag teams where the big guy does the flips and the small guy is the angry brawling one?

Viking Raiders? At least that's what the commentary tells me.

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That house show finish sounds bananas. Should have put them on earlier and closed with Stroman or Becky or something else if they felt so compelled to protect Wyatt. On a house show of all things. 

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16 minutes ago, Swiftian said:

Place goes dark for Wyatt's entrance. Everyone's hugely into it - cheers mixed with awe-filled apprehension, but man his entrance took forever. Images flashed across the tron for maybe a full two minutes before he comes out. 

There's some fan cam footage out there and, yeah, they take way too long on the screen. They could have easily gone straight from the ramblin' rabbit bit to him coming through the curtain. It's different on TV. But when it's just a live crowd? Let's give them something live to look at. 

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1 hour ago, Edwin said:

They had a dream singles match earlier this year iirc.

I had totally forgotten about that.

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Just now, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

 

I would like to see if that officer would be willing to do a bit with Big E.

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5 hours ago, Swiftian said:

I don't know if it's just because it's a house show and they work looser but it was easier to notice a lot of moves not connecting and the cooperation involved in putting on matches. It always makes me wonder how adults could ever have thought this stuff was real back in the day.

I hate to sound like the old man yelling at clouds, but it really was less obvious that Johnny Valentine and Wahoo McDaniel were cooperating.

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1 hour ago, LP Steve said:

I hate to sound like the old man yelling at clouds, but it really was less obvious that Johnny Valentine and Wahoo McDaniel were cooperating.

The more complex that moves have become over the years, the more it looks like choreography. Doesn’t mean it’s not entertaining, but it’s definitely a lot less like an actual fight.

Edited by Captain Kronos
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Cooperation is more obvious and botches stand out more when Plan A is to do every spot "clean" the first time because [Jim Cornette & Lance Storm mode] Nobody Ever Struggles To Put A Hold On Anymore [/Jim Cornette & Lance Storm mode]


And how many times did Heenan's commentary cover for someone botching their finishing hold (or pre-rationalize kicking out of the finisher) by saying "he didn't get all of it, though!"

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It’s super depressing to go back to ROH matches from 15 years ago and see entire matches built around stuff like struggling to hit a brainbuster and then look at where we’re at now.

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Everyone is right here. Yes, today's stuff is more intricate and obviously choreographed. Yes, commentators of today generally do a lousy job of putting over the 'struggle'. Yes, they did a better job back in the day of making it look like a fight. But an Irish whip is still an Irish whip and stomping the mat when landing a strike has never been realistic. It has always been necessary to suspend disbelief.  

Edited by Execproducer
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I dunno. So much of the traditional American style is cartoony as fuck. Like Arn Anderson is a god around these parts and I love him and all but his selling was so over the fucking top and silly. It was shtick/schlock called on the fly because it was easy and it worked most of the time vs overly complex bullshit that can look like dancing.

Then there was UWF.

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10 hours ago, Six String Orchestra said:

I think I need to go on a wrestling sabbatical or something. I used to really enjoy it, just watched NXT UK Takeover and the NXT on USA debut, felt bored out of my mind. Clash of Champions iv couldn't even bring myself to watch. 

MLW has a weekly show on Youtube. All Japan and New Japan both have streaming services for under 10 bucks a month that are simple enough to navigate through even for a non japanese speaker. NOAH puts a lot of their shows up on Youtube as well. The NWA is about to run their first TV taping. AEW is just a couple of weeks away from starting weekly on TNT. Still lots of options out there even if you wanna abandon ship on WWE (which I don't blame you for, I did the same a few months ago and have not missed it one bit). 

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2 hours ago, Oyaji said:

I dunno. So much of the traditional American style is cartoony as fuck. Like Arn Anderson is a god around these parts and I love him and all but his selling was so over the fucking top and silly. It was shtick/schlock called on the fly because it was easy and it worked most of the time vs overly complex bullshit that can look like dancing.

Then there was UWF.

I guess you could call it that but it's a heck of a lot better than whatever the hell it is people like Rollins and Ospreay are doing.  Their offense comes across as feathers blowing in the wind and then they'll get dropped on their head or their knee crumbles and 20 seconds later they're on the top rope doing a 1080 

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3 hours ago, Execproducer said:

...stomping the mat when landing a strike has never been realistic.  

To be fair -- that is much better than the blatant thigh slapping everyone does now.

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3 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

MLW has a weekly show on Youtube. All Japan and New Japan both have streaming services for under 10 bucks a month that are simple enough to navigate through even for a non japanese speaker. NOAH puts a lot of their shows up on Youtube as well. The NWA is about to run their first TV taping. AEW is just a couple of weeks away from starting weekly on TNT. Still lots of options out there even if you wanna abandon ship on WWE (which I don't blame you for, I did the same a few months ago and have not missed it one bit). 

And if you got the FITE app you get all kinds of free weekly wrestling...

 

Championship Wrestling from Hollywood,Reality of Wrestling,ROH,MLW and even the Mississippi based SWA.

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It's really quite sad. If you had told me 5 years ago that there would be a promotion that had Ricochet, Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Shinsuke Nakamura, Cedric Alexander, Rey Mistero, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens and Cesaro all in it and that I would be completely bored with and uninterested in it I would have told you that you were nuts because how could anyone not put on a red hot show with that much talent. But here we are. 

Edited by BrianS81177
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I can say this with a straight face: the fans are the problem. The difference isn't in suspension of disbelief but instead what fans in 1983 wanted relative to fans in 2019. Wrestlers react accordingly.

Edited by Matt D
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What is it you think the fans want, that is ruining wrestling? Because I would have said 'Good matches' and therefore the blame would be on any promotion that is unwilling or unable to put good matches on. If you think the fans buy tickets just to be on telly and act like dicks, then yeah, that's on them. Although the TV production style that says when you go to a crowd shot, you don't do a long shot, you do a close up on one fan member of the universe, that does encourage the ringsiders to think that they can go there and get themselves over.

In entertainment, you don't always get the fans you want, but you pretty much do get the fans you deserve.

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