WWE Network Conversation

[SirSmUgly]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:05 AM, odessasteps said:

Mid-South was good at cutting bait. Look how fast Master G George Welles got pushed down the card when they realized he was not the new JYD. Of course, it didn't stop Watts from repeated trying. 

Yo, I just got through the 9/22/84 episode. That was the wrestling version of Poochy joining the Itchy and Scratchy cast. It's a credit to how much goodwill Watts had built up with his fanbase that they didn't shit on Welles for being that overpushed in one show. 

Watts is a damn shambles. 

And he tried with Brickhouse Brown before bringing Welles in. This dude legit is just bringing random black wrestlers in and pushing them at the upper-midcard level immediately before trying with another one. It's kind of insulting. Just turn Butch Reed face if you're that desperate. He's better as a heel, but he's Butch Reed, and therefore he rules. 

[odessasteps]

Imagine if Butch had "sent JYD packing up north" and that's how Watts turned him face. 

[SirSmUgly]

This man just momentarily fought off Buddy Landell, the MX, Butch Reed, and Ernie Ladd. Fuck outta here. 

[odessasteps]

11 hours ago, Matt D said:

Renee and RJ have pitched “Dinner and a Match.” 

I like Renee fine, but she’s no Annabelle Gurwitch.

[SirSmUgly]

I did some Googlin' to see when Vinnie Jr. decided to run Mid-South's territory with JYD on a card and immediately ran into the commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ICvXljlMGg

That 1986 show drew a little over 12K. Disappointing for JYD at the Superdome, but I guess a combination of economic downturn and the in-ring action in '80s WWF being not exactly the same stylistically as Mid-South were the issue. I would assume JYD was as hot as he was ever going to get in 1983, for that matter. It felt like he was slowly cooling off through these 1984 Mid-South shows, though of course I only have TV to tell that tale and can't see what his reactions were like on the loop or in those Superdome shows beyond what they show in clipped matches. 

[Mister TV]

35 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

I did some Googlin' to see when Vinnie Jr. decided to run Mid-South's territory with JYD on a card and immediately ran into the commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ICvXljlMGg

That 1986 show drew a little over 12K. Disappointing for JYD at the Superdome, but I guess a combination of economic downturn and the in-ring action in '80s WWF being not exactly the same stylistically as Mid-South were the issue. I would assume JYD was as hot as he was ever going to get in 1983, for that matter. It felt like he was slowly cooling off through these 1984 Mid-South shows, though of course I only have TV to tell that tale and can't see what his reactions were like on the loop or in those Superdome shows beyond what they show in clipped matches. 

12K is pretty good, remember house shows at domes used the basketball set-up that sat around 15,000, they weren't going into that show thinking they'd be drawing a massive crowd.

[SirSmUgly]

1 minute ago, Mister TV said:

12K is pretty good, remember house shows at domes used the basketball set-up that sat around 15,000, they weren't going into that show thinking they'd be drawing a massive crowd.

Ah, see, I was thinking they would have the whole thing opened up (or most of it) and be shooting for around 30K on a card with Hogan main-eventing and JYD high on the card. Thank you for correcting me in my ignorance. 

[clintthecrippler]

On 4/18/2023 at 9:06 AM, SirSmUgly said:

8/18/84 Mid-South is the first post-JYD episode. Watts didn't initially go in as hard on JYD as hard as I thought he would. I'm looking forward to him going increasingly off the rails as business slows down, though. 

The crowd started a JYD chant while Duggan was getting attacked, but it died out once they remembered/figured out that he wasn't exactly going to show up. 

Mike Jackson is one of those dudes that you can't help but root for. I saw him wrestling an X-Division title match in his 70s, and apart from the times that I was hoping he wouldn't, like, die or anything, I was very into hoping that he'd set a record for oldest X-Division champion. 

Dude is a very good underneath wrestler. 

One more edit: Then again, Brickhouse Brown squashing Buddy Landell twice in a row probably indicates what's to come w/r/t Watts desperately trying to find another black main eventer pretty well, huh?

That first six weeks of TV after JYD leaves is some incredible "stages of grief" television from Bill Watts. I was shocked that first week by how almost conciliatory he was and mostly complementing/thanking JYD for his time in Mid-South, and then as you get another 4-6 weeks down the line (and like you, assuming seeing JYD actually on WWF TV) the more antagonistic approach and framing of Butch Reed as "the man who ran off JYD" begins. 

And yeah, the really cynical side of me had that thought too about the Brickhouse Brown debuting with "job guy" presentation and beating Buddy Landell twice in a row on that very first episode after JYD is gone. And that cynicism is honestly a discredit to Brickhouse, as during his return in spring 85 after a few months hiatus he settles into a solid "plucky midcard underdog" role that he is genuinely really good at and his TV matches during that time period are a highlight.

The presentation by commentary of Mike Jackson in Mid-South may be one of the all-time best "he's probably losing but he's a credible threat if one break comes his way" presentations of a job guy ever.

And much like you, the Fantastics run here really reinforced that they genuinely aren't praised as much as they should be for being an incredible tag team and "credible pretty boys".

Quote

EDIT: Watts seeing JYD on WWF shows triggered the FUCK out of that guy, hahaha. Here we go. I love it, and I'm looking forward to an increasingly deranged Watts cutting matches to make it look like JYD lost clean to all the heels and showing Kamala matches from like 1983 in which he lost to a current Mid-South performer and...hey, did he ever do this sort of thing to any non-black wrestlers?

2X EDIT: Maybe Orndorff?

This never aired on regular weekly Mid-South TV, but when Power Pro started up in Fall 1984, one of the early episodes aired a 1983 Houston match with Ted Dibiase going over Tito Santana, but newly dubbed commentary by Bill Watts presents it as a "current match" featuring "current WWF Intercontinental Champion Tito Santana" and notes that it is a non-title match, outright stating that Tito perhaps had self-doubt about granting a title defense to Dibiase after repeated matches against softer competition up North.

I can't remember, when did you start your Mid-South TV watch @SirSmUgly? Because there is a multi-week stretch in 82/83ish where he is salty about both Orndorff and The Wild Samoans jumping to Georgia where be buries the wrestlers for leaving when "the competition got too tough" but also rants about how "the cable wrestling out of Channel 17 in Atlanta" never books competitive matches on their TV show.

[odessasteps]

Id think the Fantastics feud with the Sheepherders was the equivalent of the Fabs feud with the Moondogs that showed fans they were not just pretty boys. You can prob add RnR vs Russians in there too.

[SirSmUgly]

18 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

That first six weeks of TV after JYD leaves is some incredible "stages of grief" television from Bill Watts. I was shocked that first week by how almost conciliatory he was and mostly complementing/thanking JYD for his time in Mid-South, and then as you get another 4-6 weeks down the line (and like you, assuming seeing JYD actually on WWF TV) the more antagonistic approach and framing of Butch Reed as "the man who ran off JYD" begins. 

And yeah, the really cynical side of me had that thought too about the Brickhouse Brown debuting with "job guy" presentation and beating Buddy Landell twice in a row on that very first episode after JYD is gone. And that cynicism is honestly a discredit to Brickhouse, as during his return in spring 85 after a few months hiatus he settles into a solid "plucky midcard underdog" role that he is genuinely really good at and his TV matches during that time period are a highlight.

Brickhouse is definitely a fun worker, so I don't mean anything against him when I critique Watts being thirsty as fuck for another black main eventer after Dog left.

Quote

I can't remember, when did you start your Mid-South TV watch @SirSmUgly? Because there is a multi-week stretch in 82/83ish where he is salty about both Orndorff and The Wild Samoans jumping to Georgia where be buries the wrestlers for leaving when "the competition got too tough" but also rants about how "the cable wrestling out of Channel 17 in Atlanta" never books competitive matches on their TV show.

I started watching where Peacock's collection starts, which is back end of 1981. I certainly remember Watts getting aggy about them jumping, particularly Orndorff. I also knew about the Tito and Kamala matches that Watts pretended were current, which is why I was wondering if he did that to Orndorff at any point, too. I might have to watch a bunch of Power Pro on Youtube when I'm through all the Mid-South weekly shows that Peacock has. 

Other observations as I get nearer to closing out 1984:

• I think Mid-South's ring style brings the best out of guys who I was mildly bored by as a kid in WWF. Someone like Hercules Hernandez looks like a genuinely interesting prospect. He and Dr. Death feel like one of those short-term tag teams that I'm going to wish spent more time together, and I love Hernandez's heel control work. I know they wrestle the Rock 'n Rolls as well as the Fantastics, which I'm excited to see. 
• I would watch no wrestling except for every Tekno Team 2000 match on replay for a few days, maybe a couple of weeks, if it meant that Bill's kid Joel never showed up on commentary again. 
• If Buddy Landel were still alive, I would like a game show podcast where one of he, Steve Austin, or Eli Drake says a line, and then the contestants have to guess which one said it. 
• EDIT: One more - I am thoroughly enjoying Adrian Street's camp gay gimmick from a 2023 perspective, in that I am rooting for him as though he were a face. He's just SO FUNNY - Boyd announces a match between he and Chris Adams for the next week, and off-handedly, Street says, "Aren't you lucky?" while Boyd hypes the match. Yes, yes, we are all lucky. They're going to try to get this lame, boring lame-ass Terry Taylor over through a feud with Street, whose in-ring work I very much enjoy and who I think is such a snarky character that I cannot help but laugh out loud at least once with every promo or booth visit. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[Gorman]

Thoughts on November to Remember 95

Joel Gertner opened the show by introducing the Dudley Boyz. Little did he know that he would become a part of their act. Buh-Buh Ray and Sign Guy were part of the clan, with Buh-Buh as stuttering guest ring announcer (let's get ready to Ruh-Ruh-Ruh...). He and Triple H loved to spoof that line, but of course, Michael Buffer was laughing all the way to the bank.

Sabu returned, Paul E. hugged him, and all was forgiven. He beat Hack Meyers in his return to the extreme family.

Blue Meanie debuted by giving Stevie Richards a "Flock of Seagulls" half-T-shirt. Hey, that's the first band I saw in concert! Joey Styles asked, "Where did he come from?" Well, I'll tell you! Raven appeared on one of our Steel City Wrestling shows and added our moonsaulting big man, Brian Rollins, to the Flock.

Taz helped Bill Alfonzo beat Tod Gordon and then adopted Fonzie as his manager. Taz complained that everyone gave sympathy to Sabu, Terry Funk, and Tommy Dreamer when they got hurt, but nobody cared about Taz when he hurt his neck ... except Bill Alfonzo.

Sandman won a tag team match to earn a shot at Mikey Whipwreck's ECW title, but Steve Austin stole Sandman's title shot and cribbed his beer-drinking gimmick as well. For retaining the ECW World title over an unexpected opponent who became one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, Mikey Whipwreck is the MVP.  

Cactus Jack won the Top Two T-shirts award by starting with a homemade Dungeon of Doom shirt (Shark-Zodiac-Kamala) and later revealing an Eric Bischoff shirt. This allowed Tommy Dreamer to punch him right in Eric's face. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Gorman

[Curt McGirt]

I got to rewatch the Tales from the Territories about Mid-South (among several others) and it really feels like the best one. 

My pick off the Hardcore Homecoming show is the New Jack/Kronos vs. Pitbulls match. It's total garbage wrestling, but Kronos' crimson mask is 100%, New Jack breaks the rules by saying "ECW", and the scaffold that gets scooted out is pretty cool looking. 

[SirSmUgly]

WELP Adrian Street just slapped the hell out of Linda for enjoying a kiss from Terry Taylor, and even though I too am disgusted that anyone would enjoy kissing that lame-ass, I can't be rooting for that guy. I didn't see Goldust out here knocking the cigar out of Marlena's mouth, dammit. Or maybe I just blocked it out, considering it was the Attitude Era. 

Poor Linda. I forgot how much Street abuses that poor woman. Someone beat this bum up (but for totally unobjectionable reasons, mind you). 

A rail-thin Shawn Michaels shows up on the 10/20/84 Mid-South that the Street incident is on. I'm pretty sure that Herc and Michaels were part of at least one quality tag match against one another in WWF. Summerslam...1990, I think, without looking it up. Is Michaels/Dr. Death in their primes a singles matchup that I would love to see? Why yes, it is. 

[Kuetsar]

On 2/27/2023 at 3:03 PM, SirSmUgly said:

Mid-South in 1984 is proof that you can have run-ins on half the TV matches and still have a compelling show. It's just so much better at doing this than, say, late-'90s WCW or even Attitude Era WWF. Don't ask me how. 

The sheer amount of run-ins, fuck finishes, and cheap finishes should be a total turnoff, but it isn't. Maybe it's because the show is like twelve dudes who all hate each other and will jump each other at a moment's notice, so the fact that it feels like a locker room war that spills over into everything else works really well in a way it didn't in those companies? I don't know. 

I've seen quite a bit of this stuff before, like I've said, but never in a weekly format. I feel like it shouldn't work in a lot of ways, but it absolutely does. 

Part of it that it was advertising for the main product-come see these guys kick the shit out of each other at your local town. Where as late 90's stuff is the show itself. You feel cheated at the MNW stuff, its just a taste for the old territories stuff. That and the older stuff feels real. . . .

[SirSmUgly]

44 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Part of it that it was advertising for the main product-come see these guys kick the shit out of each other at your local town. Where as late 90's stuff is the show itself. You feel cheated at the MNW stuff, its just a taste for the old territories stuff. That and the older stuff feels real. . . .

That is an excellent point. You get the payoff live in the arena.

But ideally, PPVs/PLEs/whatever they're called would replace the live show as the "main product" that gives you the payoff.

I guess I'll go back to that old DVDVR standby. We need more jobber matches on TV, dammit! Save the big matchups for PPV!

(On another note, I was talking in some thread about how modern wrestling doesn't offer any catharsis, and that's also it, I think. Modern [American?] wrestling books to other goals - to swerve the smarts, to up value for shareholders, etc. It doesn't book to let me have an emotional release. In the 1980s, all these companies booked to let me feel feelings via an acceptable cultural arena.)

EDIT: Ernie Ladd beating TA for the North American Championship is pretty good. I love that he goes so far as to pretend that TA reversed a move even after he knocked TA out with a bit of chain-assisted strangulation. He falls backward with a KO'd TA on top of him and kicks out at two before getting the win with the double-legdrop. Some of the dudes in the crowd are over the squeeing for TA and start chanting ER-NIE ER-NIE and applauding when he is awarded the gold. I'm guessing TA is off for the Carolinas shortly?

Edited April 24, 2023 by SirSmUgly

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Holiday Hell 95: The New York Invasion

JT Smith fell off the top rope, landed on his head, and lost to Hack Meyers again.

Mikey Whipwreck won two more titles, beating "2 Gold" Scorpio for the TV and tag team titles. Cactus Jack helped Mikey and then helped himself to one of the tag team belts. That means Mikey is the MVP for the third show in a row. Is he going to win this thing?

Missy Hyatt made out with Stevie Richards in an attempt to get a date with Raven. It must not have worked because Cactus shouted her out in the crowd before the main event. 

Mantaur showed up as Bruiser Mastino and beat El Puerto Ricano, who was curiously billed from Quito, Ecuador.

Cactus tried to make his main event with Sabu into an Olympic rules match. Referee Pee Wee Moore painstakingly talked about all the rules and the scoring system, only to be chokeslammed and replaced as referee by 911.

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by Gorman

[Greggulator]

Just rewatched this for the first time in ages. It is seriously one of the best NXT matches in history. An absolutely joy of goofy wrestling comedy. All four commit so hard to their characters and use their shtick perfectly. A+ and one of the best comedy matches ever.

[SirSmUgly]

OK, I'm at the end of Mid-South 1984. Let me take stock of where I am with this show:

This looks promising!

• Skandor Akbar getting an ersatz Rat Pack together: I'm digging this heel group. Especially...
• Buddy Landel: I get why people thought he'd be a star. He's such a good scumbag heel with no redeeming qualities. Even Akbar doesn't like him that much. I feel like Landel in Mid-South is the sort of characterization that MJF is going for, but last I saw, was failing miserably at. 
• Adrian Street: Really fun in-ring, and goes from obfuscating softness and glamour to meanness in a second. His offense is varied and accentuates his propensity for meanness - he snaps pinky fingers and throws open-hand palms into Adam's apples and all that sort of good stuff. I doubt he'll be around for much longer, but maybe he will? Let's hope we get some of him in 1985 before he moves on. 
• The Mid-South Tag Team division: Midnights/Rock 'n Rolls/Fantastics is an elite base upon which to build any tag team division. I think the Rock 'n Rolls move on soon enough, but we're on deck for Midnights/Fantastics, one of the greatest wrestling rivalries ever. 
• Dudes in football helmets running into each other: Bill Watts found a way to make Hacksaw Duggan palatable. That guy was genuinely a booking genius in the '80s. And come to think of it, I loved 1992 WCW for that matter. 
• Butch Reed, main event babyface: Yes, he's better as a heel, but I'm ready to root this guy on to the North American Championship. Would he have gotten closer to replacing JYD as top black babyface had Watts turned him immediately upon Dog leaving the territory rather than waiting a couple months? I can't say that much, but I suspect he would have been more over if his turn didn't feel like it came out of nowhere, which it did when he finally got turned face in November
• Skinny Shawn Michaels doing jobs: The guy is wearing a cutoff MTV shirt to the ring and bumping like a nutbar. Come on, as corny as it is, it's must-see television for me.

This looks ominous...

• Terry Taylor: Watts seems determined to push this guy. I don't know the North American title lineage, but I fear we're going to get a shitty Taylor run somewhere in here. How this bland dude was seen as someone to push in multiple companies is beyond me. It never worked, and for good reason. 
• Bill Watts's desperate hotshot booking of black wrestlers as JYD replacements: He has zero plan, really, over the back half of 1984. From the chatter here, he never really gets one. JYD is, IMO, a generational talent in terms of charisma. I'm not sure that Watts really has an immediate replacement. However, he doesn't have to megapush EVERY black wrestler who comes into the company. Organic builds make a push more likely to stick. 
• WWF and JCP beefing up for war: It's already tough for Watts to hold onto anyone, but these two bigger companies luring wrestlers over with bigger paychecks, plus the bottom falling out of the business because of regional economic issues, have me wondering if even a fairly flexible booker like Watts is going to be able to keep the company churning out high-quality shows through 1985. I know Duggan/DiBiase and Fantastics/MX are big for the company this year, but I do wonder what the company will look like heading into 1986, which is its final full year of shows IIRC. 

 

[Kuetsar]

Watched the royal  rumble 92 match with a Jim Cornette watch along. How in the hell did Hogan and Vince think that Hogan hissy fit was going to get a face pop?

[SirSmUgly]

Fall Brawl 1997 notes:

• The Eddy Guerrero/Chris Jericho opener is on one of those WWE DVD collections I have - maybe Eddy's Cheating Death, Stealing Life? - so I have re-watched it more recently than I've re-watched most 1997 WCW. It's a very good opener, and Eddy's got a lot of heat on him, so a title change is the right choice. The match is also quite good, which is no surprise. Jericho keeps Eddy grounded, which makes sense. He's the bigger guy, so he needs to lean on Eddy. Eddy was just the bigger wrestler on the previous Nitro against Rey, and Eddy works as the big man by hitting a series of bombs. It's cool to see that Jericho's work as a big man is more focused on leaning on Eddy and working him into pinning positions. Two different approaches for smaller guys being the bigger wrestler in the match, both effective. One of the nice things about this Cruiserweight division is that you could see how wrestlers would change their approach depending on whether or not they were the bigger or smaller cruiser in the ring, and it feels like each of these wrestlers has a distinct approach to each of those situations. That's a little something that makes this division work so well.

 

• Anyway, Eddy wins this with a Frog Splash after he reverses a Jericho superplex attempt. The Cruiserweight title had quite the journey in 1997, especially this Syxx -> Jericho -> Wright -> Jericho -> Eddy -> Rey series of switches that happens only over a few months. It works, though, because everyone is so good that it's believable that the competition would be tight enough to have guys straight up beat each other at a moment's notice. It also helps that the matches were no less than good and the one at the end of this series of switches is a stone cold classic. Not a Stone Cold classic, a la Austin/Angle at Summerslam '01, but a stone cold classic. 

 

• The Steiner Brothers and Harlem Heat have a decent match, though it's nothing special, and it feels like these teams have been feuding off and on for a loooooooooong time. The Steiner Brothers' tag titles victory has been held off for probably, what, a year almost at this point? Bischoff needs to move it along with some of these arcs. Scott Steiner and Booker T continue to build the chemistry that would carry through to their matches in 2000 and 2001, which generally delivered IIRC. Though I am somewhat cold w/r/t the entertainment level of this bout, I must say that the crowd is quite into the whole thing. I did fall for Harlem Heat getting a finish off the Heatseeker, but it's only a 2.9, and Stevie falls to a clothesline/bridging back suplex combo only seconds later. The Steiners are finally the number one contenders to the tag titles, which since they cleanly beat the Outsiders like six or seven months previous to this match, should have been their status way the heck earlier. 

 

• Alex Wright and Ultimo Dragon have a rematch of their Clash 35 TV title encounter. As good as that match was, this match is verging on dreadful. Commentary tries to find a narrative through line, though there really isn't much of one, at least in kayfabe. However, I wonder if the champ called each match. Dragon was the champ on the excellent Clash encounter, but Wright's the champ in the rematch, and it looks like he ran out of ideas pretty quickly. He has an awful, crowd-killing heel control segment that genuinely felt like it was twenty minutes long. Around the time he was two minutes into about eight minutes of working a shitty chinlock over two separate match segments, I felt like I could see it on the poor fella's face that he was out of ideas and trying to figure out what to do. This match was entirely too long, and while the finishing segment was fine in a vacuum (Wright counters a Dragon Sleeper and wins with a German Suplex), it did zero to get the crowd back. I didn't expect a match as good as the Clash match or anything, but this was well below any reasonable expectations that I had for it. 

 

• Gene Okerlund points out Tony Schiavone's lapse in throwing it over to him for a segment. Then, the nWo's "Arn Anderson Sketch Guys" (Nash, Syxx, Konnan, and Buff) storm through said segment, and Okerlund has the nerve to talk about how rude they are. Oh, as rude as pointing out a momentary pause that your buddy on commentary made when throwing it over to you? That level of rude? Anyway, the nWo knocked out Curt Hennig, but not really because it's a ruse (both in the kayfabe and shoot senses). The Horsemen are WCW's team for War Games tonight in a late switch by acting WWF Commissioner acting WCW Commissioner Roddy Piper, so the nWo countered by buying off Hennig. Oops! In Piper's defense, his decision was because Luger and DDP, two members of that team, have been beefing lately. 

 

• Jeff Jarrett comes to the ring to wrestle Dean Malenko because none of the other Horsemen wanted him in their group and chose to pursue Curt Hennig instead. Oops! Jarrett is not long for WCW - he'll be back on Raw in mid-October - so this is his WCW PPV swan song. For now, at least. It's a pretty good match, and really, watching Jarrett's whole run this past year has made me re-evaluate him. He was in a number of good bouts and a couple that were great, or at worst verged on great, against Giant and Benoit. He came in as a face who was excited about TRADITION, though, and that killed him dead almost immediately. The dude just comes off as naturally unlikeable, but he's a terrible heel and a great fighting babyface in the ring. The reverse is true in his character work (though his heel ringwork during this run was good, just not as good as his babyface work). When he comes back to WCW in 1999, he's going to get the biggest push of his life as a heel who kabongs dudes with guitars, and I can't blame him for then doing that for the next decade because he got over doing it. You do what gets you over, I understand that, but it's a shame because aesthetically, he's so much better working as a face. The caveat is that this comes from someone who thought his "sympathetic dad trying to hold things together for his kids" period in TNA after his first wife passed was far and away the best version of him in that company.

 

• I digress as much as Taz apparently does. Jarrett wins this match with the Figure Four and ostensibly gets another shot at Mongo McMichael and the U.S. Championship at Halloween Havoc, but that'll never happen. It's interesting that Bischoff booked Jarrett to win here when Jarrett was so close to being out of contract and hadn't agreed to a new one. 

 

• The "Arn Anderson Sketch Guys" cut a promo. They plan to retire the Four Horsemen in War Games tonight. Well, the Three Horsemen. Wow, these guys cannot settle on four active Horsemen for anything this year. 

 

• Wrath and Mortis vs. the Faces of Fear is a nice way to give Vandenberg's guys something to do besides wrestle Glacier and Ernest Miller, neither of whom have been on TV lately, come to think of it. This has been a good mini-feud on TV for the past month. People love that backdrop/powerbomb combo move the Faces of Fear do. It wakes them up a bit. This is another solid match. I love that Tony S. calls the ref "Shooter" Curtis, a little shout out to the Busaiku knee/facelock two-piece he served up to some bum who rushed the ring last Nitro. Vandenberg gets involved and his boys have some nice offense in control - the match is pretty much a bombfest starting about three minutes in - and we get a tower superplex spot that actually makes sense because Mortis, who is on top of the tower with Barbarian, is also hurt! It leads to a hot tag, and the desk talks about how the move backfired because Mortis didn't control his fall. Sometimes, people all sell that move, but it always seems so contrived and the selling is often cursory before getting to the next move. This one helped stitch the match together.

 

• Meng double-Tongan Death Grips Vandenberg and Mortis, but while he's doing that, Wrath dispatches of Barbarian and catches Meng from behind with a Death Penalty for three. Vandenberg really does whatever he needs to when it means that his guys will win. Top-class manager, that guy is. 

 

• Oh no, Benoit does a ton of talking in this Three Horsemen interview. I like that he just delivers his pitiful attempts at insults as though they're really good ones, so maybe people will also think that they're good insults, I'll say that much. I mean, he doesn't fool me. They stink. But I appreciate the "fake it 'til you make it" approach. 

 

• WCW is always down a man in these big matches against the nWo. This is like the third time this has happened in a major match on a WCW PPV in 1997. The Giant had to wrestle the Outsiders alone, WCW was down a guy in that big triple-threat elimination match against the Horsemen and the nWo, and now this. Plus we got a tag title match that ended up being one-on-one for the tag titles when Scott Hall went to rehab and Scott Steiner got removed from the match in a stupid way to even it up. Bischoff really loved this booking trope, huh?

 

• The Giant is wrestling Scott Norton? They really have nothing better to do with LE GEANT~? Vinnie McMahon Jr. booking the Big Show like ass for a huge chunk of Show's run there is a fairly common talking point, but I'm not sure the booking of WCW babyface Giant, who is very over, is pointed to as a massive error like it should be. Bischoff is wasting this guy. Not that this matchup is bad. It's another solid match. The Giant suplexes Norton on the floor, and it rules. But look, the Giant deserves better. He already killed Savage off, sure, but there are other options. The Outsiders have been ducking the Steiners. The Steiners have wrestled Harlem Heat about five hundred times the last few months. Why not shunt Hall or Nash into a quickie feud with the Giant? Hall's probably the best option as a) he can eat a loss and be just fine, and b) he is excellent when he's wrestling small against a bigger babyface. So, the match: The Giant does a kip-up and a dropkick and the crowd loves it and it's pretty great! Chokeslam, three, huge pop for the big man. Can we give him something to do that isn't "uh, we're all out of ideas, I guess let's turn him heel again?" 

 

• Lex Luger and Dallas Page have our second Clash 35 return match of the night; they face off against Scott Hall and Randy Savage. The crowd is VERY into the face team. Luger kills the heels, but during DDP's FIP segment, Hall stomps Luger out in the no man's land between the two rings until Luger's wedged between the rings. Everybody else goes into both rings and does all sorts of fun spots to differentiate this tag match from the previous tag matches. Scott Hall knocks out Mark Curtis because why the fuck not, so Larry Zbyszko comes down and faces off with Scott Hall, which distracts Hall enough for Luger to pull himself out from between the rings and sneak up behind. Larry Z. shoves Hall backwards into a Luger schoolboy, then counts a quick three. The nWo does this sort of fuckery all the time to their benefit, so I'll allow it. 

 

• It's War Games! What was the last good one of these? 1994, yeah? 1996 was actually pretty decent, I think. That could ostensibly be the last good one. Or maybe tonight's War Games, considering that I remember zero about it! But probably not. Let's run through this thing. First in are Chris Benoit [Horsemen 1] and Buff Bagwell [nWo 1]. Tony S. whines about no one coming out to help the Horsemen and fill the open spot in the match. Hey, Ric Flair's ineffectual leadership made this mess, and they should have to deal with it. Benoit tries to finish Bagwell early, which makes a ton of sense! He whiffs on a flying headbutt, though. Oops! The crowd chants for Sting. Mmm, I think maybe the Horsemen have gone to that well and pissed in it one too many times at this point, WCW fans.

 

• The five minute period ends with, and you will be shocked to find this out, the heels having won the coin toss to enter next and hold a two-on-one advantage. The nWo feels right at home with a one-man advantage at this point. Konnan [nWo 2] enters in time to miserably fail at helping Buff beat up Benoit, at least for awhile. Finally, the heels are on top for the last minute of the period. Mongo McMichael [Horsemen 2] enters at the end of that period and cleans house with clotheslines and slams and clubberin' and such. The Horsemen basically dominate this period, and when it ends, Syxx [nWo 3] enters the match. 

 

• You know what the issue is with this match? I don't buy the hatred. They needed more than two weeks to build this match up. They sort of hot-shotted the feud with the retirement and then the follow-up mockery of said retirement happening in such a compressed space. So, Syxx gets in and basically gets murdered; it might as well be three-on-three for 45 seconds of this period. Finally, Benoit is distracted by trying to wrap Syxx into knots, and the nWo grabs control of the match. Meanwhile, Curt Hennig comes down with his arm in a sling. It looks like he'll be participating. What courage, Tony S. says! That poor rube. 

 

• Ric Flair [Horsemen 3] enters the ring and WOOOs and chops and Syxx is in here getting his ass beat, pretty much. The Horsemen run both rings for the full two minutes, until Kevin Nash [nWo 4], gains entrance. Nash wrecks Flair, wrecks Benoit, and big boots Mongo off of Buff. Though Curt Hennig is at ringside, the crowd chants for Sting. Apparently, the only people with a shorter memory than Sting are WCW fans. The nWo keeps control until the period ends, at which point Curt Hennig [Horsemen 4] enters the ring and the Match Beyond begins. Hennig rips off his sling, takes out some handcuffs, and strikes the Horsemen with them. The crowd is making noise at this turn of events, but I feel like the noise is essentially, Hey, this is bullshit. This could just be my interpretation. Actually, they telegraphed the Hennig turn reasonably well over the past few weeks of shows, but we're in Winston-Salem, and I think this crowd just wants to see the Horsemen win. The nWo handcuffs Mongo and Benoit to the cage and then beat Flair down. Whenever Mongo or Benoit spits at an nWo member trying to get them to surrender, the crowd flares up with a cheer, but no, you're not getting any catharsis, Winston-Salem. The nWo basically obliterates Flair, and they threaten to crush Flair's head in the cage door before Mongo surrenders to save Flair...which of course doesn't work. Hennig slams the cage door on Flair anyway. The crowd is at an uncomfortably low buzz after that spot, but don't worry - the only thing that got killed tonight is Winston-Salem as a drawing town! 

 

• Riiiiiiiight HERE is where I've decided that WCW starts being inexorably booked into the ground. Not Starrcade 1997 or 1998, not the Fingerpoke of Doom Nitro, not Vince Russo's first turn as booker. Here. 

 

 

[Shartnado]

On 4/26/2023 at 5:26 AM, Greggulator said:

Just rewatched this for the first time in ages. It is seriously one of the best NXT matches in history. An absolutely joy of goofy wrestling comedy. All four commit so hard to their characters and use their shtick perfectly. A+ and one of the best comedy matches ever.

The best comedy match ever! If anyone has a better one, please show it to us, because I'd love to see it!

Also, at what point is Superstars at this point? I'm not signing up with the WWE Network again until Vince croaks, but I'd like to know anyway!

Edited April 30, 2023 by Shartnado
about that Superstars though...

[Gorman]

Thoughts on House Party 96

Rey Misterio Jr. & 911 is the tag team we didn’t know we needed. They beat the Eliminators by goading them into a chicken fight and Rey Jr. hitting a hurancanrana for the win.

Rob Van Dam looked great in his debut win over Axl Rotten. He’s another wrestler who moves in a completely unique way.

Taz is the MVP for bullying Joey Styles, mopping the floor with Hack Meyers, antagonizing 911, and calling Sabu a coward. ECW held off on the Taz-Sabu match for about as long as WCW did with Hogan-Sting.

Why is Mr. Hughes serving as the bodyguard for Jimmy DelRay? It’s just a prelude to the return of the Franchise, Shane Douglas, after a very brief run in the WWF.

Before leaving for WCW, Johnny Grunge declared that the ECW Arena was The House That Public Enemy Built. 

Philly fans at November to Remember: Please don’t go!

New York fans at Holiday Hell: You sold out!

Philly fans at House Party: You’ll be back!

[SirSmUgly]

Yo, I just realized that Ted DiBiase kayfabe learned the Million Dollar Dream through his association with Hercules Hernandez and Skandor Akbar. 

My mind is blown. 

[odessasteps]

Or he "learned it in Japan." Going to Japan and coming back with a new mobe/hold is classic territory booking. 

[SirSmUgly]

Herc's using the Million Dollar Dream and tagging with DiBiase in Mid-South, though. Then DiBiase shows up in WWF using that move as his finish instead of the Figure Four. The implication is that DiBiase lifted the move directly from Herc.