WWE Network Conversation

[odessasteps]

36 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Yeah, my excitement over the Wrestling II/TA angle has sorta overshadowed the awesomeness of Butch Reed and Jim Neidhart spearing each other while wearing football helmets, which I regret.

Wait until you get to the Doc vs Duggan football helmet matches. 

[SirSmUgly]

Great American Bash '97 notes:

• Ultimo Dragon/Psicosis was a decent opener. I like that Sonny Onoo offering Psicosis a business proposition after a Nitro match a few weeks ago actually got paid off in not only this matches, but two six-man tags that pitted these men against one another in the build-up. This was better than their Uncensored match from earlier in the year, and the crowd was really hot for it, too. Onoo inserts himself into the match one too many times and Psicosis pays for it; he eats an Onoo kick that leads him directly into a Dragon Sleeper for the submission loss. 

 

• Harlem Heat/Steiner Brothers was a solid match with lots of clubbering. Booker did a Spinaroonie --> sidekick, and it got a mild face pop, so he should maybe stop doing that until he's actually a face. Just as Scotty hits a top-rope Frankensteiner on Booker and looks poised for victory, Vincent runs in and drops an elbow on Booker, ripping what looked like a certain win - and number one contendership for the tag titles - away from the Steiners on a DQ. I can live with the anticlimactic finish because I like the "Hall and Nash are ducking the Steiners after getting beat by them at Souled Out" storyline so much. The Steiners' beatdown of Vincent is pretty good, especially when they casually stomp him on their way out of the ring. 

 

• Konnan/Hugh Morrus was easily the worst match on the card. It quieted the crowd down and was really awkward. It was below-average as a match, but the production truck did a good thing (?!?) by cutting to a camera angle similar to Scott Dickinson's that explained why, even though we could see Konnan's illegal hair pulling on the wide camera, Dickinson couldn't see it from his angle in the ring. Tony S. goes out of his way to point this out as an example of why it's harder to ref than it seems. I loved that bit of reality-building. Good work, Craig Leathers?!? Anyway, Konnan pops up and knocks Morrus off the top rope, then locks on a Tequila Sunrise for the KO win. 

 

• Public Enemy cut a truly dire promo with Mean Gene. Just awful. Now that the Nasty Boys are off TV, PE has picked up in their stead as a team that cuts weak promos and has the same shitty garbage brawl every match.

 

• I stopped watching AEW pretty early in their run, maybe five or six months in, but long enough to see the beginnings of the Codyverse. While the Codyverse apparently ended up having few positive returns, from what I gather, I sort of like the idea. I think it can work. My reasoning? The Glacierverse is weirdly fun! Glacier's opponent, Wrath, shows a little something in this match. He hits a senton from the apron to the floor and a nice diving clothesline, and in general has some fun control in this match. Kanyon is handcuffed to the ropes as a stip for this match, but he makes himself known by tossing a chain to Wrath. His toss misses Wrath by quite a few feet! Glacier picks up the chain and clobbers Wrath with it for three. Post-match, Vandenberg and his men handcuff Glacier to the ring and beat him down. Where's Ernest Miller? Weird that he wouldn't have a run-in here. Maybe he's down in the ole Power Plant learning how to throw better worked kicks?

 

• I cannot believe I'm saying this, but Madusa/Akira Hokuto was damned good, maybe even great! After Madusa fights off an early Hokuto flurry, the match is worked around a Madusa knee injury (same knee she blew out against Wendi Richter, says fellow former AWA-ite Lee Marshall on commentary). Madusa does a FANTASTIC job of selling the knee injury, crumpling when she puts too much weight on it, having to power through to get a couple of big moves off before she can't stand on it anymore, and generally selling it like she blew an ACL. Hokuto does some cool offense, including a surfboard, to work the knee, and Madusa eventually can't stand on the leg anymore and eats a brainbuster for three. I didn't remember anything about the lineage of the WCW Women's Championship, so I assumed she'd finally win it here, but nope!

 

• The crowd is into this enough that when post-match, Gene Okerlund harasses Madusa about choking away her career in this career vs. title match while she's in incredible pain and being helped down the aisle, the crowd starts a small LEAVE HER ALONE chant. Okerlund is such a scumbag, my goodness! 

 

• I will go so far as to say that this match burned the crowd out a bit because they are muted for another very good Chris Benoit/Meng match that's built around Benoit trying to get the Crippler Crossface on for as long as possible as many times as possible to knock Meng out, which he eventually does. Meng has a couple good chances to win, but runs into a bit of bad luck. First, he covers Benoit and in the three or four seconds it takes him to be reminded that this is a match that ends on standing ten-counts, submissions, or KOs, finally backs off. Benoit stays down for nine. So close! After that, Meng locks on the Tongan Death Grip, but Benoit wisely flips over the ropes and breaks it by falling to the mats below. That's Meng's last big chance to win. Both guys do stretcher jobs post match, and it did feel like a war. 

 

• Kevin Greene/Mongo McMichael was solid. Greene got his mom, sitting in the front row, to slap Mongo in the face. That's always a pleasing spot, a family member of the face slapping or punching the heel. Jeff Jarrett came down with the 'burton, but didn't even look like he was trying to do anything but hit Mongo over the head with it. Greene pulled Mongo into it a bit, but he almost didn't need to. Debra finally got peeved at Jarrett because not only did he whiff, but he just rolled on out instead of sticking around to correct his mistake or at least cause a DQ. Greene got three off the suitcase shot; sort of a weak finish in the sense that this match was built up as Greene's ultimate revenge a year after Mongo hit him with the 'burton and went Four Horsemen. Greene should have at least been the guy to use the suitcase to win in a full-circle sort of deal. On the other hand, it's leading directly to Mongo and Jarrett finally settling their beef. Eh, there's gotta be a better possible finish that does both of those things at the same time.

 

• Twice tonight, Mean Gene has pimped his hotline with this rumor: Some wrestler who was pissed with the leadership of their company would maybe be showing up at Nitro in Chicago. If it's not a total work, my guess is Raven. Or is that too early? Man, my timelines are all off.

 

• The Outsiders/Piper and Flair was really about furthering whatever eventual Piper/Flair feud seems to be on tap. The crowd was hot for this and I think, based on crowd heat and chemistry, Flair/Syxx and Flair/Hall are the most interesting things that Flair should be doing right now. Eventually, Syxx (standing at ringside) kicks Piper in the back of the head, and Flair beelines for Syxx and brawls with him all the way to the back, leaving Piper alone. Not much longer after that, Hall picks up the relatively easy victory with a Razor's Edge. Well, at least Flair wasn't there to help Piper for a reason that makes sense, unlike a few weeks ago when Piper just chilling in the ring watching Flair get his ass beat by the nWo because, uh, who the fuck knows why? Oh, Piper thought Flair could handle that one-on-three himself; I forgot that this (this!) was his defense the next week. 

 

• Randy Savage/DDP was mostly typical crowd brawl for the era, but it was better than the typical crowd brawl for two reasons. One, it didn't overstay its welcome and was kinda short, but very nasty and brutish, as a Falls Count Anywhere match should be. Two dudes trying to kill each other shouldn't go more than twelve or fifteen minutes, IMO. and preferably not more than ten. Two, Savage barely being able to contain his propensity for violence worked really well in the context of this match. Anyone could get it: refs, cameramen, Kimberly. It got to the point that he was so distracted with trying to dish out beatdowns and piledrivers that it seemed like this would be his downfall. Since this Falls Count Anywhere match was no-DQ (though aren't they pretty much all no-DQ?), Scott Hall helped Savage get DDP in position for a Savage Elbow that got three. 

 

• This show ended up being really good after a series of strong Nitros, and stuff that I never would have guessed would work ended up working. If you had told me that Sonny Onoo, Akira Hokuto, and Madusa would heat up the Women's Championship match in about three weeks' worth of shows and then pull of a legitimately awesome match with a surprising finish, I wouldn't have credited it. Other than Konnan/Morrus, a subpar match for a subpar feud, everything on this show was good to great. 

[For Great Justice]

Oh man I just watched the Madusa match and Gene stuff on this show a few weeks go. What a dick!! Great match, great selling, great emotion by Madusa. Maybe her best performance. 

[Cobra Commander]

so what theory are we gonna do with for the fans in Union Jack shirts reacting to Nikolai's anthem on the 3/10/1984 Mid-South show...

1) Louisiana residents who like Union Jacks

1b) Louisiana residents who got really into punk music

or

2) Actual Brits who are in Shreveport for some reason (hey, there's a USAF base one Parish over from Shreveport so you never know)

Also, the back body drop into the backbreaker would be a cool move now, so imagine it in 1984.

[odessasteps]

Some version of 1B, but rock fans not necessarily punk fans.

(I think 1984 is slightly too early for Def Lepard to be mainstream popular in the US) 

[SirSmUgly]

Mid-South in 1984 is proof that you can have run-ins on half the TV matches and still have a compelling show. It's just so much better at doing this than, say, late-'90s WCW or even Attitude Era WWF. Don't ask me how. 

The sheer amount of run-ins, fuck finishes, and cheap finishes should be a total turnoff, but it isn't. Maybe it's because the show is like twelve dudes who all hate each other and will jump each other at a moment's notice, so the fact that it feels like a locker room war that spills over into everything else works really well in a way it didn't in those companies? I don't know. 

I've seen quite a bit of this stuff before, like I've said, but never in a weekly format. I feel like it shouldn't work in a lot of ways, but it absolutely does. 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Double Tables

Rather than teaming with his Pitbulls in a six-man match, Jason brought out another Jason (a scary one in a hockey mask). After their win, Hack Myers beat up his partners, The Young Dragons, who gave him almost no help during the match.

Tommy Dreamer beat Stevie Richards, but the real confrontation was already looming with Raven.

Mikey Whipwreck overcame a "Giant," but it was actually Paul Lauria, who was smaller than he was.

Bad Breed explodes! Axl Rotten absolutely destroyed his brother Ian, but Ian put his feet on the bottom rope for the win.

Tully Blanchard failed to grab an elusive World title when he lost to Shane Douglas, who was happy to score a win over Ric Flair's buddy.

After mastering the Singapore cane match, Sandman tried to beat Cactus Jack in a Texas Death match. Bad idea. Cactus dropped Sandman on his head until he stopped sitting up like The Undertaker.

Chris Benoit became the first wrestler to win the MVP award in WWF, WCW, and ECW. He won a suplex-heavy battle with Al Snow. Then after Sabu & Taz won the belts from The Public Enemy in the Double Tables match, Benoit put members of both teams through a table. Not only that, but he and Dean Malenko had joined Shane Douglas in their own Horsemen-style group, The Triple Threat.

[SirSmUgly]

Bash at the Beach '97 notes:

• I don't remember loving the Glacierverse as much as I currently do. The tag opener between Glacier/Miller and Wrath/Mortis was very fun, lots of cool double-teams, and one spot where Mortis big booted a chair that Wrath was holding to Glacier's head, sandwiching it with the ringpost, was gnarly. Wrath's out here busting out sentons and inverted crabs and other random shit out of nowhere. The faces had some nice double-teams themselves, actually. Glacier finally loses a fall in his WCW career when James Vandenberg takes over on the outside like a good manager should. First, he puts a chain around a prone Mortis's foot. Second, he puts Mortis's foot on the ropes to break a Glacier pinfall attempt. Third, he gets on the apron as a distraction and eats a Cryonic Kick so that Mortis has time to recover, get up, and hit a superkick of his own with the chain-wrapped foot. Sister Sherri, who'd recently been fired/quit as manager of Harlem Heat, should have been out there taking notes. I'm going to go back and read Gorman's review of this show because really, I don't see how Vandenberg shouldn't have earned the MVP for this performance!

 

• Chris Jericho and Ultimo Dragon had one of those typical late '90s cruiser workrate matches that you'll see on these shows. It didn't really stand out and was studded with all sorts of spots that I probably thought were cool back then, but that are (IMO) boring now. Dueling dropkicks, lots of fast counters, etc. There's even a dueling reversal spot where both guys try La Magistrals on one another. That should indicate what type of match this is. Not bad, but all the speedy counter flippies that are common in modern wrestling have inured me to this type of match. Jericho retains his Cruiserweight Championship with a counter to a counter. See, it's that type of match. 

 

• Raven's so bummed. Stevie's not bummed enough. Don't you know that everything is POINTLESS, man? Raven decides to do some poetry. If he would've had Dave Grohl backing him on the drums while he did this, he could've cut an album that hit gold, at least. Stevie and Raven talking to Gene Okerlund in 1997 is quite the juxtaposition of the old and the new!

 

• The Steiners vs. Chono and Muta is a match that exists. If being boring were a crime, these dudes would have been hauled off to the slammer, Mountie-during-Summerslam-1991 style. But this wasn't offensive or anything. 

 

• The trios tag was kinda offensive, though. Lizmark Jr. was moving at like quarter-speed the whole time. Most of the spots were contrived and immersion-ruining, though Psicosis did have a sweet sunset flip that really should have gotten three, it was so nasty. La Parka also popped the crowd with a pretty dive. Overall, though, this was a fairly bad match. Villano V must have a heck of a glass jaw since it took all of two moves for him to eat a pinfall after he ran in and took Villano IV's place.

 

• Somehow, I didn't realize that Sullivan/Benoit XVIII or whatever we're up to by now was a loser-retires-from-WCW match. THANK YOU, though. This feud was ass, a few bright spots aside. Since those bright spots mostly involved Dusty saying funny stuff on commentary, Jacqueline, or Woman, you can imagine how this has gone. I don't think even a healthy Brian Pillman could have sustained this feud for as long as its gone, and he's a very good mic guy. Benoit is so awful a talker that this feud had ZERO juice via interviews. Anyway, Jacqueline gets involved in this match and those spots with her are good, but the rest of this is yet another wandering brawl. At least Bischoff actually ended this feud, though. Most of his feuds just trail off aimlessly without much of a finish at all. I will say that people loved these dudes biting each other, and that was a solid spot. They followed it up with Sullivan fighting through and taking Benoit's finisher for about fifteen years, so that was a bummer, but the biting spot was solid! And I gotta say, "Sullivan survived the Crossface but lost only because Jacqueline gave him a chair shot" doesn't really get over anyone except for Jacqueline (being the utter badass that she is). Which is fine, except I think WCW wanted to give Benoit the juice from this match, not Jackie. Eh, I guess it didn't hurt him, and in the end, no fan held it against Benoit anyway. 

 

• Oh, shit, subterfuge from Debra! She helped Jeff Jarrett clobber Mongo with the Halliburton in their match. Jarrett falling out of favor with her was but a mere ruse! I really didn't remember this at all and was expecting Mongo to win. Boy, the story of these last two matches is "don't fall in love with a woman because she will leave you for someone else and ruin your life on the way out," which seems...uh...about right for the '90s. I love the '90s to be sure, but they were a retrograde mess in some ways. 

 

• Hall/Savage and Hennig/Page was interesting. No one in the 1996 WCW crowd was really popping for Hennig, but were those people watching a lot of 1991 WWF? I was, but maybe (probably?) a lot of these folks weren't. I love that they did the obvious toothpick/gum spit spot. The match is fine, but for once I did remember something correctly - Hennig rolling out because he don't need any of this shit - and now I'm waiting for Hennig to stick the knife in Flair and the Horsemen, too. 

 

• Flair as a heel - meh. Flair as a fiery face against the nWo - awesome. That's my takeaway re: Ric Flair in 1997. This match against Piper is fine, but it's derivative and boring and the same shit, and no one wants to boo Flair really. Flair/Syxx or Flair/Hall is WAY more interesting and would have produced a better match. Heck, Flair/Hall produced a better match on Nitro that made me want to see a PPV version of that match. Anyway, while I have zero idea why Mark Curtis wouldn't just DQ Flair after his buddy Benoit came in and grabbed him, I give Benoit credit for covering Curtis's ears so that Curtis wouldn't hear Mongo spike Piper with the Tombstone. Even that didn't help Flair win the match because heel Ric Flair is a bum with none of the vim and vigor of fiery old man face Ric Flair.

 

• Hogan/Rodman vs. Luger/Giant was enjoyable as spectacle. Was it very good? No. But did it capture the spectacle of big dudes, one of whom was a basketball star who was very controversial because he wore women's clothes sometimes, having a main event match? Yes, it did. If you're trying to mark time until Starrcade, there are worse ways to do it, I think. Also, Rodman tagged in and didn't even take his sunglasses off. Come on, that rules. This man kept his nose ring in, kept his sunglasses on, and when he won an arm drag against Luger, it looked cool.

 

• Let's talk, in fact, about that spot. I think it's RD Reynolds, maybe Bryan Alvarez, who made fun of that spot where Rodman hit the arm drag and everyone went wild. Oh wow, an armdrag, never seen one of those, I think was the talking point. Those two guys are morons who have no idea what makes wrestling good, so I'm pretty certain it was one of them. Rodman did the arm drag, popped up, and calmly checked his shades while Hogan, Savage, the desk, and the crowd went wild because it looked so cool! It was amazing! Then, Luger arm dragged him back and he panicked and ran for the hills. That was a great series of spots that played off Rodman's natural charisma and worked around his limitations! Fuck off, haters. I also love that Rodman leapfrogging and shoulderblocking Luger led to a great shot of Luger with the facial expression that he really, really, REALLY underestimated Rodman. Yeah, this match was fun. WCW went to the well one too many times with the "main event tag where one of the wrestlers is from another field," specifically with the Leno thing, but doing this once every couple years with a legit athlete from another sport seems like a neat thing to do, IMO!

 

• This show was probably the weakest one since Souled Out, but I genuinely enjoyed the opener and the main. 

 

• EDIT: Luger being MVP for winning the main event singlehandedly after Fake Sting used a bat on the Giant and racking every nWo member in the ring is an acceptable choice. Vandenberg is still my pick, but these guys are 1-2 in the MVP running for this show. I'm just a sucker for effective and efficient ringside management, I guess. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Return of the Funker

The Pitbulls (without any Jasons) opened the show with a squash win. The fans were on their side and the superbomb was getting over as a finisher.

While the masked Jason wasn't on the show, another guy in a weird mask attacked Hack Myers and caused him and Mikey Whipwreck to lose to Paul Lauria and manager Jason, who was wrestling more often.

Before facing his brother in a barbed-wire baseball bat match, Ian Rotten ran to the ring and grabbed the bat from the guy who was trying to attach it to the pole. Brilliant!

This show should have been called "Return of a Lot of Old ECW Guys." Stevie Richards brought back The Broad Street Bullies to help Raven battle Tommy Dreamer. Cactus Jack's mystery opponent in a surprise box was DC Drake. 

So we get to the end of the show, and before we can liken it to "In Your House 12: It's Time (to watch everyone but Vader)," Terry Funk also pops out of the surprise box.

ECW kept trying to build up Shane Douglas as World champion by pitting him against former WWF and WCW stars like Road Warrior Hawk, 2 Cold Scorpio, Tully Blanchard, and here, Marty Jannetty. For surviving this challenge and spurning Woman's invitation to join Funk and Sandman in attacking his former training partner Cactus Jack, the Franchise is the MVP. 

Not only that, but the Franchise's Triple Threat group collected all the gold. Malenko already had the TV title when he and Benoit won the tag team belts from Sabu & Taz.  Before the match, The Public Enemy talked too much smack about Benoit & Malenko because with Rocco in a wheelchair, they were sitting ducks for an attack.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Gorman

[Gorman]

Thoughts on The 3-Way Dance

Stevie Richards told the Broad Street Bullies that if they lost, Raven would fire them. Then Stevie brought out The Pitbulls to destroy the Bullies. The Pitbulls abandoned their burgeoning popularity and pledged that they would win the belts and hand them to Raven. Stevie had another surprise for Raven: Beulah McGillicutty, who was not as "fat and disgusting" as Raven had remembered from when she attended summer camp with teenage Raven and Tommy Dreamer.

Raven battled Dreamer, but Stevie decided to plant a kiss on Beulah, who slapped him. Stevie attacked Beulah, but when Dreamer came to her rescue, it was a setup! Beulah squirted hairspray in Dreamer's eyes, leading to Raven scoring the first of many wins over Dreamer.

Best fan sign: We Want Raven's Blood (that's supposed to be red) Spoiler alert: they got it.

Mikey Whipwreck continued to be the James Bond of ECW. Instead of just pinning Mikey, Ron Simmons had to chokeslam him twice and then get disqualified for chokeslamming the ref. Of course, this brought out 911. Simmons actually chokeslammed 911. When several wrestlers came to help, 911 said thanks by chokeslamming them.

Eddy Guerrero looked fantastic in his win over 2 Cold Scorpio, avenging brother Hector's loss to Scorpio at Return of the Funker.

Ian Rotten entered the hair vs. hair match against his brother looking like he had already lost, as his head was 80 percent shaved. Axl won the match and finished the job. Of course, Ian gained control of the scissors and attacked Axl, because this is the feud that will not end.

Woman lit Sandman's victory cigarette before he could win the ECW title from Shane Douglas. But Sandman did not prove to be the Red Auerbach of wrestling. Woman slipped his Singapore cane to the Franchise, who used it for the win. 

Sabu no-showed the biggest match in ECW history. The fans were not pleased. They popped huge for his replacement, Rick Steiner. He and Taz suplexed everyone. They were the first team eliminated, but they beat everyone up again before they left. Benoit and Malenko seemed to have the win in the bag, but The Public Enemy rallied for the victory. Even though the Pitbulls attacked them after the match, Rock & Grunge became three-time champions and the MVPs of this show.

 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Hostile City Showdown 95

Sandman is the MVP for winning the ECW title from Shane Douglas. This show took place just a week after The 3-Way Dance, and Woman swerved right back into Sandman's corner and helped him win.

This show featured four classic ECW matchups:

Axl vs. Ian: Which of the weapons in the garbage can will the fans vote for in the Viewer's Choice match? All of them!

Dreamer vs. Raven: Tommy was disqualified for giving the ref a DDT. He then piledrove his future wife Beulah and soaked in the fans' cheers Hogan-style.

Guerrero vs. Malenko: The ECW fans appreciated this technical wrestling showcase just as much as the previous hardcore match. Eddy hung onto the TV title in a 30-minute draw.

Cactus vs. Funk: Cactus scored another big win, just like over Sandman, who attacked him after the match. Funk disposed of Mikey and Hack, and Shane had walked off to the WWF in a huff. So nobody was available to save Cactus from Funk setting him on fire.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Gorman

[zendragon]

I guess Tommy is the only guy to lose an ECW match by DQ

[Dolphman 3000]

7 hours ago, Gorman said:

Guerrero vs. Malenko: The ECW fans appreciated this technical wrestling showcase just as much as the previous hardcore match. Eddy hung onto the TV title in a 30-minute draw.

I think this is their best match, but the crowd is distracted/bored for the first 20 minutes. If I remember right, Hat Guy loudly yells at the fans to shut up at some point.

[JLowe]

I decided to start watching the ECW shows on Peacock from the beginning and the early episodes are...not good. I'm going to keep watching to see the transition to the Extreme style, so far the early attempts have been comical (the surfboard that broke before making contact with Sandman in his early surfer character being a prime example). Also hard to watch a washed, roided, drugged out Snuka (and the new addition of washed, roided Muraco). Reading up on Eddie Gilbert, it looks as though I have another few months before Heyman takes over.

[HarryArchieGus]

1 hour ago, JLowe said:

I decided to start watching the ECW shows on Peacock from the beginning and the early episodes are...not good. I'm going to keep watching to see the transition to the Extreme style, so far the early attempts have been comical (the surfboard that broke before making contact with Sandman in his early surfer character being a prime example). Also hard to watch a washed, roided, drugged out Snuka (and the new addition of washed, roided Muraco). Reading up on Eddie Gilbert, it looks as though I have another few months before Heyman takes over.

Those Network or Peacock shows lose sooooo much without the original music. They're unbearable to me. I'm sticking to my tapes and DVD-Rs for ECW viewing. Tho, the best way to watch those episodes are the Network video/Original Audio/Plus original ECW commercials DVD-R Edits that somebody made. I don't remember who that somebody is, so I no longer know how to find them. Does anybody out there know where to get those now? Who's dealing?

[Dolphman 3000]

5 hours ago, JLowe said:

 I'm going to keep watching to see the transition to the Extreme style

The W*ING guys worked the Summer 1993 tapings before Heyman arrived, and I think they heavily influenced what ECW became.

This match specifically:

https://youtu.be/orKSNbGN40Y

Edited March 20, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Niners Fan in CT]

Watching a house show from Boston Garden 1986.  I did not realize these were shown on NESN.  So, we have Gorilla and Ventura on commentary which is always a huge plus for me and it's been a really fun show.  

We have Macho Man vs. Tito Santana for the intercontinental title and what a great match that was.  

The Hart Foundation vs. The Killer Bees 

Don Muraco vs. Ricky Steamboat in a "Martial Arts" Match.  

Main event is about to start and I'm hyped for this.  It's a steel cage match.  Roddy Piper vs. Bruno.   Piper is out with a Chicago Bears Super Bowl T-shirt  Lol.  He has the Boston PD escorting him to the ring.  This is gonna be loads of fun. 

[Cobra Commander]

the Bruno stuff probably ages better than expected if you can accept that the match formula involves an Italian dude kicking ass and getting cheered on by the crowd which will have a lot of Italian-American people there. I guess if you watched it every month, it might get old but the 1970s Bruno stuff probably involved the stylings of Stallone Rocky movies more than people realize?

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Enter the Sandman

Unlike the nearly Funk-free Return of the Funker, Sandman was a big part of this show. For successfully defending the ECW title against Cactus Jack and Shane Douglas consecutively, Sandman is again the MVP.

Just like the very existence of WCW was threatened by the new World order, ECW faced its own existential crisis when Shane Douglas brought in Bill Alfonso as a hypervigilant referee. I played this same role one night in Steubenville, Ohio, and Big Bully Busick threw me out of the ring on my head. But at this point, nobody dared to touch Fonzie or he would have the entire promotion shut down. 

Tommy Dreamer was the first victim of Alfonzo's refereeing, as Dreamer lost to Raven (again), getting disqualified for throwing a punch.

Tony Stetson brazenly stole Bret Hart's nickname, but it wasn't enough to help "The Hitman" score a win over Hack Meyers.

Ian and Axl Rotten wore the same T-shirt touting their blood feud. This bout was a barbed wire baseball bat/chair match. I hope they used their combined T-shirt sales to buy Momma & Poppa Rotten a barbed wire Christmas tree.

Taz made his commentary debut as Eddy Guerrero and Dean Malenko had another classic 30-minute draw for Eddy's TV title.

Before the Pitbulls-Public Enemy double dog collar match, Tod Gordon went all "early UFC" on us by declaring, "There are no rules!" Public Enemy won the match and earned five minutes in the ring with Stevie Richards. Raven interrupted, followed by Dreamer and ...  Luna Vachon? She helped Dreamer close the show with another crowd-pleasing Beulah Driver.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Gorman

[Niners Fan in CT]

On 3/22/2023 at 2:42 AM, Cobra Commander said:

the Bruno stuff probably ages better than expected if you can accept that the match formula involves an Italian dude kicking ass and getting cheered on by the crowd which will have a lot of Italian-American people there. I guess if you watched it every month, it might get old but the 1970s Bruno stuff probably involved the stylings of Stallone Rocky movies more than people realize?

I'm far from a Bruno historian but that sounds about right.  I've watched a good handful of Bruno matches and he's got some fun brawls.  The crowd going fucking bonkers for him kicking ass helps 100% 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Barbed Wire, Hoodies and Chokeslams

Beulah McGillicutty seemed overmatched in her pro wrestling debut against Luna Vachon, but she won in eight seconds after a chairshot from Stevie Richards.

Francine showed up in the crowd as a Stevie superfan, but Raven put an end to the high-school drama by dragging Stevie and Beulah backstage. This robbed the Pitbulls of the 3-on-2 advantage that Raven earned by disclosing Tommy Dreamer's fingers. Taz & 2 Cold Scorpio ended up beating the Pitbulls.

Mikey Whipwreck channeled early UFC with a Keith Hackney-like barrage of low blows to beat 500-pound Big Val Puccio.

Axl Rotten introduced his mystery partner to challenge The Public Enemy for the tag team title ... his brother, Ian Rotten! Wait a minute, weren't they banned from teaming up again? Why yes, and here's Bill Alfonso to remind everyone of that fact. Axl & Ian started brawling again. Rock & Grunge seemed to get the night off, but they were attacked by The Gangstas.

911 is the MVP for chokeslamming the Jersey Devil a record-breaking four times ... and then breaking his own record by chokeslamming Jungle Jim Steele FIVE times.

Cactus Jack's barbed wire match against Sandman for the ECW title was like a preview of his tenure in the WWF. When Sandman dropped Cactus crotch-first on the barbed wire, Joey Styles called it "the most extreme move of the decade." Of course, Mick Foley would be the victim of the most extreme move EVER three years later. 

Cactus seemed to win the title by knocking out Sandman for a 10-count, only for Alfonso to ruled that the title couldn't change hands that way. That's exactly what happened at In Your House 26: Rock Bottom when Mankind knocked out The Rock with the Mandible Claw but somehow didn't win the WWF title. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Gorman

[clintthecrippler]

Seeing @Elsalvajeloco namedrop Mark Ragin in the AEW Discussion thread made me remember how strange his debut in 1984 Mid-South was. Dude gets the full-scale "next big superstar" entrance coming to the ring to Michael Jackson and breakdancing with the music still playing even after the bell rings...and then he turns out to be extremely NOT ready for that level of presentation, and within a few weeks he's reduced to teaming with Mike Jackson (the wrestler) and people below that level like that "superstar" debut never happened.

He's like the Mid-South version of Outback Jack. And no shade on Mike Jackson with that previous comment, matches where he is on the job side of things show that he has always been really good and maybe even better in Mid-South than JCP because he actually gets hope spots in almost every match he is in and Bill Watts talks him up on commentary to give him some credibility.

As far as my current Mid-South watching is concerned, I am now into June 1985, but I'll put the rest of this in Spoilers since I know @SirSmellingtonofCascadia is still in 84 right now:
 

Spoiler

This means I am now in the era of Mid-South Television Champion, The Snowman. It's the most shameless attempt yet by Bill Watts to create a "new Junkyard Dog" from scratch. Making a surprise debut as an alternate in the semifinals of the Television title tournament and squashing Dr. Death Steve Williams in under a minute complete with the familiar-looking "Big Thump"-style Powerslam and being presented as a protege of Muhammad Ali's trainer Bundini Brown with Ali himself in his corner at the Superdome for his big match against Jake Roberts, but when he finally cuts his first real promo on the weekly TV, you can tell immediately when he starts talking that he is not the long-term answer and is destined to be the short-term bandaid that peels off on its own the same day that it's applied.

That said, there is still plenty of awesomeness in Mid-South at this stage aside. Everything about the angle where Hacksaw Duggan gets blinded by Skandor Akbar is fantastic pro wrestling. Ted Dibiase and Dr. Death are starting what looks be a fantastic reign as Mid-South Tag Team Champions. Terry Taylor is the most credible he will ever be, presented as a scrappy underdog and mostly rising to the occasion to the point where you could see fans thinking that he has a legit shot at unseating Ric Flair for the NWA World Title, and Jake Roberts spends the first half of the year cutting wild heel promos and truly becoming the devious shitbird that a worldwide audience would come to captivated by in the WWF.

The North American Title is in a weird spot at this stage though, as it's now on the masked Nightmare, who is Randy Colley in a mask with a style and presentation that is very outdated compared to how the Mid-South roster has evolved since mid-84 and exposes how despite staying a traditional pro wrestling product, 1985 Mid-South is still such a different and more modern beast from the same time period just three years prior in 82. Being brought in initally managed by Eddie Gilbert pre-"Hot Stuff" in his "General" gimmick didn't help either, as at first "General" Eddie Gilbert comes off as an annoying goober hick with a minor-league presentation compared to Jim Cornette and Skandor Akbar, though he does transition to the "Hot Stuff" gimmick after The Nightmare becomes "The Champion" (both as a titleholder and his ring name) so I am looking to forward to seeing him get more comfortable and finding himself in that role.

The Nightmare and The Snowman aside, Mid-South overall is still hitting on a lot of cylinders in Summer 1985, and there's no way anyone could have possibly predicted that they would be gone from the scene completely just a mere two years later. And one of the greatest episodes of professional wrestling television is yet to come towards the end of the year...

 

[SirSmUgly]

I thought the Mid-South crowd was popping for Ragen, but turns out they were actually popping for what I think is Billie Jean. It's a great song and worth popping for, in fairness.

[odessasteps]

He was also a protégé of the Destroyer, so that's likely why he was given the initial push, esp since Beyer came in to team with him for some shows. 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Hardcore Heaven 95

Raven stopped waiting for The Pitbulls to win the tag team belts for him and won the gold with Stevie Richards on the night before this show. He dragged Stevie and Beulah away from Francine again, and the distracted Pitbulls lost to the debuting Dudley Boyz (Little Snot Dudley & Dudley Dudley, with Big Dick Dudley). The Pitbulls got mad and brawled with Raven & Richards after their title defense against Dreamer & Luna. She challenged for a men's title four years before Chyna did it in the WWF.

Shane Douglas quit ECW, interfered in an ECW title match, and was fired from ECW all in the same night. 911 added the exclamation point.

Tod Gordon put Bill Alfonso in charge of the Taipei death match because there were no rules for him to enforce. So Fonzie stopped the match at the first sign of blood. Then Fonzie left the building to stop a brawl between the Gangstas and Public Enemy, so the Rottens could destroy each other in peace.

Does anyone know why 2 Cold Scorpio was fighting Taz? They were partners on the last show, and here they were fighting with no explanation.

The Public Enemy was really a big deal in ECW. They were in the main event over the ECW title match, beat The Gangstas after using a croquet mallet, and invited the fans into the ring for a show-ending party. Now that's an MVP performance.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Gorman