AEW - SEPT 2019

[NikoBaltimore]

3 hours ago, alstein said:

I don't think wrestling fans are that scared of Baltimore.  Especially younger progressive wrestling fans.  They're probably more scared of Gibsonville NC than they are Baltimore.

That may be true.  But when you have everybody around telling you how shitty it is it gets harder to defend it, especially when there's a lot of truth to that.  But this also is my feeling after realizing we're going to need to move out if we want to start a family so we're getting that process going.

I did notice for Starrcast the tentative location is Power Plant Live.  I'm hoping that's not the case as while it's fine enough the Convention Center would be the better place if they can get it.  I know they're kicking off and ending it at Jimmy's Seafood (some kind of party I guess) but PPL just wouldn't have the space for what Starrcast normally is.  And considering what they're charging they'd need that good spot to have it.

Edited September 10, 2019 by NikoBaltimore

[Craig H]

I've never been to Baltimore, but I'll tell you that a lot I know about Baltimore was informed by The Wire or people that have watched The Wire. I know that sounds lame, but that's just how opinions wind up being influenced if you've never been there.

And I'm sure people have the same thoughts about Chicago and just think there's nowhere safe, but in reality it's one or two bad areas out of 10? 15? however many different areas of that city and surrounding areas. Hell, I wouldn't even call the area around Stoney Island Parkway that bad (probably only Jae will get that). The night my wife and I went to see Tom Segura in Chicago there were something like 10 or 13 people shot and killed. We had no idea until days later. The violence you hear about in Chicago may as well happen in a completely different city.

Similar thing with Detroit. Detroit ain't that bad if you know where to go, but if you've never been then you probably think it's a wasteland where bears and other wild animals roam around, there's no businesses, etc.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

There are nice places everywhere. Except in Cleveland. Cleveland is a shithole, and one of these days the Hellmouth will swallow it up for good.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I've never been to Baltimore, but I'll tell you that a lot I know about Baltimore was informed by The Wire or people that have watched The Wire. I know that sounds lame, but that's just how opinions wind up being influenced if you've never been there.

And I'm sure people have the same thoughts about Chicago and just think there's nowhere safe, but in reality it's one or two bad areas out of 10? 15? however many different areas of that city and surrounding areas. Hell, I wouldn't even call the area around Stoney Island Parkway that bad (probably only Jae will get that). The night my wife and I went to see Tom Segura in Chicago there were something like 10 or 13 people shot and killed. We had no idea until days later. The violence you hear about in Chicago may as well happen in a completely different city.

Similar thing with Detroit. Detroit ain't that bad if you know where to go, but if you've never been then you probably think it's a wasteland where bears and other wild animals roam around, there's no businesses, etc.

Reminds me of my father always being dismissive of Indianapolis. "India-no-place," he called it. Then in 1991 we drove through there on the way to college, stopped for an Indians game (the San Diego Chicken was there plus we got an epic post-ejection tantrum from the Indians manager), and by the time we swung by the Brickyard he'd taken back everything he'd ever said about the city.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Pete

[Craig H]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

Reminds me of my father always being dismissive of Indianapolis. "India-no-place," he called it. Then in 1991 we drove through there on the way to college, stopped for an Indians game (the San Diego Chicken was there plus we got an epic post-ejection tantrum from the Indians manager), and by the time we swung by the Brickyard he'd taken back everything he'd ever said about the city.

Indy is really nice. It's the nicest little big city I've been to. Some of my cousins and my nephew all live there in the nearby suburbs and those are all nice too. The price per square foot is really good for homes.

[Kang]

3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I think it’s more that while there is a lot of interest from hardcore fans, AEW still hasn’t captured the complete attention of the wrestling fan mass. Also these hardcores have disposable income, but not all of them are will to spend like like crazy for each show. 

I’ve said it in the past a lot. They gotta create a fan base that includes casual fans. They can’t keep relying on hardcores. That means local advertising, advertising on college campuses, and maybe giving away tickets just to fill out an arena for TV. Hopefully those seat fillers, with family like what they see, and they’ll actually pay the next time AEW rolls into town. It’s a slow gradual process for a new wrestling company. They shouldn’t be fooled by the results of the last couple of attendance figures.

https://www.sescoops.com/cody-talks-about-aew-appealing-to-core-fanbase-unintersted-in-casual-fans/

[NikoBaltimore]

21 minutes ago, D.Z said:

https://www.sescoops.com/cody-talks-about-aew-appealing-to-core-fanbase-unintersted-in-casual-fans/

I get the intent behind it and I hope that pays off for them.  But they'll need to make sure they have ways to bring everybody up to speed on TNT, especially if they don't watch the Youtube shows.  If they don't then that'll be an issue.

And to go off of what @LoneWolf&Subs said for I have a question for those that attended DoN or even the free shows.  Was there any kind of local advertising?  I would think there were radio interviews but did they appear on TV or have billboards/visual ads throughout the city?  Even if the shows were sold out advertising is needed to let people know there's a show going on in their backyard and they can watch it on B/R or Fite.  I would hope they did that and if Full Gear somehow is not sold out by then then they'll really need to ramp that up to get more people to go.

[Technico Support]

I don't even know what "casual fan" means as it relates to wrestling.  Does it mean people who never watch wrestling but might get lured in if they see something cool?  Do those people even exist?  Wrestling has had such a stigma for so long that I doubt there are people who would go from "I'm not watching that phony shit" to "hey let's order Wrestlemania on PPV!"

Maybe "casual fan" means the people who only watch WWE.  Like "casual beer drinker" means dudes who only drink Bud Light.  Do you think they're going to switch over in any great numbers?  Are you going to drop that watery lager for a craft IPA any time soon?  I can totally understand AEW not worrying about appealing to casuals.  You either won't get them at all or they'll be too fickle to stick around anyway.  Regardless, watering down your product to appeal to someone whose needs are being met by a product that's already watered down to their tastes is a fool's errand.  Did Vince Gilligan try to make Breaking Bad lame in an attempt to draw viewers from CSI or some similar big 4 TV homogenized bullshit?

Holy shit that was a rambling point to make.  I just mean to say that chasing after "casuals," if they even exist, is rather pointless.  Get ALL the hardcores, bring in the lapsed fans who disappeared when WCW dies, etc, and you'll be good.

 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

52 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I don't even know what "casual fan" means as it relates to wrestling.  Does it mean people who never watch wrestling but might get lured in if they see something cool?  Do those people even exist?  

It means the people who don’t watch anything else outside of the WWE. Those people do exist. Those are the kind of people that know what “You can’t see me” is, but don’t know the difference between All Japan, and New Japan. The kind of people who don’t buy merch, or watch PPV’s, or the Network, but they’ll occasionally watch the TV. They are also the kind of people that can drop it cold turkey, and never comeback. 

That’s what I consider casual. Like I got into Doctor Who a few years ago, because Matt Smith made his debut, the shows budget doubled, and this felt like a good jumping on point. But even when I got into it, I never became a “hardcore fanatic” who bought all the merch, and attended conventions. It was just the silly sci-fi show I got into. Once Matt Smith left I didn’t stick around. I think the cute sidekick almost got me to stay, but it wasn’t enough. The show felt like it took a step back.

Edited September 10, 2019 by LoneWolf&Subs

[EVA]

If I was AEW, I don’t think I’d waste time courting fans who won’t spend money on the product.  I don’t get the business sense in that.  If they don’t buy merch or PPVs or tickets, what is the point of having them?

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

It means the people who don’t watch anything else outside of the WWE. Those people do exist. Those are the kind of people that know what “You can’t see me” is, but don’t know the difference between All Japan, and New Japan. The kind of people who don’t buy merch, or watch PPV’s, or the Network, but they’ll occasionally watch the TV. They are also the kind of people that can drop it cold turkey, and never comeback. 

That’s what I consider casual. Like I got into Doctor Who a few years ago, because Matt Smith made his debut, the shows budget doubled, and this felt like a good jumping on point. But even when I got into it, I never became a “hardcore fanatic” who bought all the merch, and attended conventions. It was just the silly sci-fi show I got into. Once Matt Smith left I didn’t stick around. I think the cute sidekick almost got me to stay, but it wasn’t enough. The show felt like it took a step back.

I get that.  So just don't cater to them at all.  Make something really cool and if it gets their attention, awesome.  That should be the only approach to "going after casual fans."  No approach at all.  Making it "more WWE-like" is just repeating the mistakes of TNA.  You don't see Ruth's Chris sweating how they're going to lure people away from McDonald's.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Technico Support

[Curt McGirt]

Indy's nice and I've got friends out there, the problem is it's built in one big fucking circle so driving is a hassle. And the places around it in Indiana that I've been, like Terre Haute, Gary... let's just say it's bad and leave it at that. 

I've never had a problem with Chicago in what, 15-20 years of driving up for shows or just to stay with friends. South Side, North Side, wherever. 

[odessasteps]

I'd say "casual fans" are ones that dont spend any money on any company. I'd be tempted to say they dont/cant even make it thru all 3 hours of raw.  And now they probably get rasslin news on facebook or twitter. Even going to the observer site might make you more than a casual fan. 

[LoneWolf&Subs]

23 minutes ago, EVA said:

If I was AEW, I don’t think I’d waste time courting fans who won’t spend money on the product.  I don’t get the business sense in that.  If they don’t buy merch or PPVs or tickets, what is the point of having them?

Because then you can say “See, look at all the viewers we’re getting on TV. Just think about all those peepers watching our program, and them seeing your company logo. They’ll be running to a DQ to grab a burger as soon as our show ends”. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by LoneWolf&Subs

[Pete]

3 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Indy's nice and I've got friends out there, the problem is it's built in one big fucking circle so driving is a hassle. And the places around it in Indiana that I've been, like Terre Haute, Gary... let's just say it's bad and leave it at that. 

I've never had a problem with Chicago in what, 15-20 years of driving up for shows or just to stay with friends. South Side, North Side, wherever. 

Ah, I spent a month in Terre Haute one weekend when Bradley played Indiana State. Long reminiscences below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

13

Spoiler

All the college basketball this weekend has me flashing back to 1991-3, when I was a student manager for the Bradley mens' team. My main gig was to videotape their games, which included a handful of bus trips (Chicago, St Louis, Iowa, Bloomington-Abnormal etc) each season. Doesn't sound like much but it was Division I basketball in Illinois, where basketball is religion (even if the MVC was pretty shit back then) so it really was like living the life there, especially when I had that team tracktop for beaucoup style points on campus.

Probably my favorite memory from that year was our trip to Indiana State near the end of the season. The team had been awful under Jim Molinari up to this point but this was about to be the turning point of the season, and really of Mo's Bradley run. Anyhow, we were eating dinner at this private steakhouse somewhere on I-74 between Champaign and the state line when who showed up but Illinois and the great Lou Henson, my all time favorite basketball coach, coincidentally on the same road as they went to play Indiana. Hail-fellows-well-mets were exchanged and we all sat for dinner together, which was really fucking cool. I distinctly remember trading knowing "that's right, we're in the band" glances with my boy David Winslow (THE CHAINSAW) as we broke bread with the Fighting Illini.

The less said about Terre Haute the better... besides, we weren't there for sightseeing, we had a game to play. Plus we had bigger fish to fry because the NCAAs were approaching, we'd had some really good practices and we all had that pipe dream of somehow running the table at the old St Louis Arena (my favorite sports barn) to win the MVC tournament and make the NCAAs. We had a blast on the bus after morning practice as we all discussed where we'd want to play the first round (keep in mind we were 6-14 at that point and had no illusions as to far we'd go in the thing)- some players wanted Orlando or Phoenix, but I wanted us in Nashville and the awesomely wacky Vanderbilt gym, which might even give us an advantage because our fieldhouse (the late, lamented Robbie) had that same raised floor.

So, the game. We go into halftime trailing 30-24 before a mildly interested Sycamores crowd of maybe 1500 people, because the Hoosiers are playing our dinnermates the Illini on TV and hey, it's all about priorities. Second half starts and I'll be dipped if we don't play our best half of basketball all season, completely blowing the Sycs off their own floor and winning 53-36. Yes, we hold the Sycs to SIX POINTS in the second half. Their coach (Tates Locke) gives a rant for the ages after the game, saying words to the effect that he would've thought his players had thrown the game if he didn't know better. His players are too shitty to cheat. AWESOME.

As things turned out we ended the season on a 5-1 run, our best run of form by a country mile in my two years on the team, and even beat DePaul for the first time in 39 years. One older alumni behind me actually fainted, it was that big a shock. We did not run the table in St Louis, surprise surprise, but the season had ended on a high note and things were definitely looking up. The following season we won 23 games... and two years after that, we were dancing again. Good times. Fun times.

 

[odessasteps]

I think in 5 years in Bloomington, I made 1 trip to Evansville, 1 trip to Monroe and a bunch of trips to Indy to see hockey, baseball and WM 8. And then 1 trip to Ft Wayne to see friends when I was in Ohio. 

In hindsight, I wish we had made some trips to Evansville to see Memphis wrestling. 

[Curt McGirt]

Two Terre Haute memories: 

1. Going up to a show and having a guy think the Oi band closing the show were a bunch of Nazis (even though the singer was wearing a Conflict shirt), so this dude literally yanks the plank of wood serving as the handrail for the stairs off and wields it like a weapon. I'm standing outside and this just happens out of nowhere. I think dude ran off after that.

2. Going up to play a show and discovering the venue was a roller rink and little kids start filing in with their moms. We politely bow out and go drink in somebody's basement the rest of the night in order to avoid a serious scene, as some crusty hardcore punk band setting up and playing was NOT going to fly.

EDIT: I don't blame the guy with the club because the residents of Terre Haute are just as shitty as Marion, IL's fellow population (and hey, both towns have big prisons, what a coincidence)

Edited September 10, 2019 by Curt McGirt

[Craig H]

I've visited Purdue and Ball State plenty of times and I'm more than familiar with Bloomington. They're all fine except there's not much to do in Muncie or Bloomington.

And yeah, the loop or beltway around Indy does suck and is confusing as shit and that's coming from someone who LIKES driving around Chicago and driving on the Dan Ryan/Kennedy/Chicago Loop/Lake Shore Drive/etc.

[odessasteps]

Cant speak for 2019 Bloomington, but we always have stuff to do in early 1990s Bloomington.

[Craig H]

So here's a question...It's pretty clear CM Punk will never come to work for AEW.

Why not try to sign Colt Cabana? I know they have a bunch of announcers as is, but he could be a wrestler at first and then transition to being an announcer. It doesn't sound like there's been any contact with Colt.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Primarily announcing and not wrestling much seems like a pretty good gig, even if it is current ROH, but I see Cabana being in the same boat as Jeff Cobb and Bandido, guys who may stay with ROH for the ability to work New Japan. Colt made his debut during the New Japan Cup, and he seemed to be very over with Japanese crowds. He hasn't been back since, but there hasn't been an opportunity when the Super Jrs. and G1 were going on. I could see him going back and teaming with Yano during the tag league. New Japan's heavyweight tag division is pretty non-existent anyway, that I think Yano & Cabana beating GoD for the titles would be a real possibility.

Of course, the real answer of who should dethrone GoD is Jon Moxley and Shooter Umino.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie

[JonnyLaw]

7 hours ago, EVA said:

If I was AEW, I don’t think I’d waste time courting fans who won’t spend money on the product.  I don’t get the business sense in that.  If they don’t buy merch or PPVs or tickets, what is the point of having them?

To eventually convert them to paying customers? New paying customers have to come from somewhere.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, JonnyLaw said:

To eventually convert them to paying customers? New paying customers have to come from somewhere.

Bingo. That's a must. You can't just believe that once you get TV your PPV numbers will automatically go up like UFC in 2004-2005. I would call that an oddity with a combination of great timing and luck. AEW is in a tougher spot because they can't roll out like wrestling stars of yesteryear like 1995 for fans who still remember certain faces. Besides Jericho and Dustin, most of those guys are dead, way too old, old and broken down, closely aligned with WWE, or (most importantly for a company like AEW) weren't that popular to begin with. Punk would have been an interesting card to play, but he wants nothing to do with being an active pro wrestler. 

[EVA]

36 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

To eventually convert them to paying customers? New paying customers have to come from somewhere.

But the issues is, at least based on the definition of “casual fans” provided by this poster (and I’m not entirely sure I agree with it, but for the sake of discussion, I guess we’re going with it), these people don’t pay, under any circumstances.  There is no converting them to paying customers.  They watch TV and that’s it.  So, in light of that, what would be the point of converting your product to chase after them?

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

12 minutes ago, EVA said:

But the issues is, at least based on the definition of “casual fans” provided by this poster (and I’m not entirely sure I agree with it, but for the sake of discussion, I guess we’re going with it), these people don’t pay, under any circumstances.  There is no converting them to paying customers.  They watch TV and that’s it.  So, in light of that, what would be the point of converting your product to chase after them?

There isn't one catch-all definition for a casual fan. They are clearly tiers of casual fans. I am not a hardcore fan at all and don't watch anything WWE related. However, I will pay for a PPV if I want to watch it and stuff like New Japan World. If you're a promoter, you're fucking up big time if you think there is just a subsection of people who just won't pay for anything. Yes, piracy will always exist but how many first time PPV buyers occurred at the height of Ronda Rousey's run in the UFC? What about Conor McGregor? I mean Dave Meltzer went to the trouble of even researching and finding out that Conor and Ronda had two completely different audiences that were buying those PPVs and they both were doing 850,000 to 1 million+ buys at 60 dollars. UFC is hot when it's hot, but the UFC is extremely niche and always has been. You can't tell me the UFC just has 2.5 to 3 million people who have been buying PPVs since 2005, and they just pop up randomly especially when their basement number for PPV buys went from 200-250k to about 90-100k in a span of two or three years.