Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 If they're high on both guys, maybe don't have them face in the first round? Since they did have them face in the first round, I think they should have gone with Buddy. He's the hotter hand right now. I'm not as convinced as a lot of other people seem to be that Ali is destined for great things anyway. I like him just fine, I just haven't seen any breakout potential in him. But I acknowledge him getting hurt when he did obviously threw a wrench into whatever they had planned for him. As for getting over just from having great matches, yes, it can happen, and has happened. Maybe it's not so easy in modern WWE when you have a lot of guys having good matches. The main thing is, though, not getting over, but staying over, and it's really hard to do that without help from the booking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, piranesi said: I need the "Aw" though. The best part was he said "AWWWWW, SHADDUP!" like a gangster in a Bugs Bunny Cartoon. Shaddup, shadding up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, piranesi said: I need the "Aw" though. The best part was he said "AWWWWW, SHADDUP!" like a gangster in a Bugs Bunny Cartoon. Shaddup, shadding up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 But who does Buddy go against? He's already had matches with Reigns and Bryan. There's Rowan, but that would probably be a squash match against Murphy. Orton is busy with Kofi/New Day. Nakamura is getting Miz. Elias is in KOTR, but involved with Shane/KO. There's Shelton, who could be a stop gap. Not putting them against each in the first round is a solid point, but they likely would have met later on and the same problem would arise. I think we essentially agree, just using different routes to get there. IMO, the major problem is not having a strong tiered system for talent to climb. The space between top talent and rising stars is too wide because the upper-midcard isn't fully viable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I like Gable, but he is not at all over and has no business in the second round. Of course, none of this is going to matter when we all watch them crown King Corbin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I think the money and the right move would have been in partnering Roman and Murphy together. Murphy feuds with Rowan and Roman feuds with DB because Vince loves David vs Goliath. Then after a few months you transition to Roman vs Murphy is a best of 7 series where Roman wins the final match. Murphy takes Roman to the limit, can't quite get there, he's elevated from losing, the two shake hands, yadda yadda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Agreed that Murphy losing here felt like quietly sweeping away his win over Bryan. 17 hours ago, Eivion said: a great reminder that Bayley is the only one of the Horsewomen who can really carry lesser wrestlers. Struggling to think of that ever being the case, aside from people praising an nxt match with Eva Marie years ago, especially coming off of a nothing summerslam match. I'd say Charlotte and Sasha have done so far more/better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) Bayley has had good matches with Nia, who most here hate with a passion. Charlotte's match with Lacey was a mess. I think the key to Bayley is she exhibits more patience than the others. Whether that leads one to thinking she can carry less experienced wrestlers is a good topic. But she's really good in the ring, and I'm surprised at how often many seem to think differently (March Madness aside). Edited August 28, 2019 by Burgundy LaRue 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 42 minutes ago, MORELOCK said: I like Gable, but he is not at all over and has no business in the second round. In his defense, when's the last time he's gotten a real shake? He's in American Alpha, and then that's gone with no plans of using him. He's taking AJ Styles to the limit one week. The next, he's in tag teams with equally cold Sheltons and Roberts. He had a couple matches on 205 Live, but it's not possible to be so good on that show that Raw or SmackDown crowds care about you from the word go. They've never picked a lane and committed to him, so I'm not surprised the audience doesn't care. And they probably aren't going all the way with him here, so who cares? Calling him a midget isn't going to win hearts and minds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 9 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said: Bayley has had good matches with Nia, who most here hate with a passion. Charlotte's match with Lacey was a mess. Sasha had much better matches with Nia and actually came off like an underdog convincingly without killing Nia's aura. The one time Charlotte wrestled Nia, she put her over clean in 5 minutes and had her actually looking like a monster. Also feel Charlotte helped bring Carmella to another level with their matches last year/earlier this year. If Charlotte/Lacey wasn't a thrown together heel v. heel TV match, it probably would be better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: In his defense, when's the last time he's gotten a real shake? He's in American Alpha, and then that's gone with no plans of using him. He's taking AJ Styles to the limit one week. The next, he's in tag teams with equally cold Sheltons and Roberts. He had a couple matches on 205 Live, but it's not possible to be so good on that show that Raw or SmackDown crowds care about you from the word go. They've never picked a lane and committed to him, so I'm not surprised the audience doesn't care. And they probably aren't going all the way with him here, so who cares? Calling him a midget isn't going to win hearts and minds. I wasn't suggesting it's Gable's fault at all. He's done everything he can with what's been given to him. It just seems like a waste of a first round match when it's clear they don't have any plans for him. Especially since his "big win" was against Shelton, who is similarly heatless because of their bad booking. It doesn't elevate him in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Sasha had Nia's best matches? Man, I don't know. I still Nia's best match was that Takeover match against Bayley. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB-13 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just accept The Product(tm), pals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said: As far as Aleister goes, I'm not surprised, sadly. I think he's in a spot where they know he has something different to offer and are trying to protect him. But that's also keeping him off TV, except for three months of babbling promos where he's chomping his teeth while locked inside a boiler room. He's in no man's land, which is the worst place to be in WWE. This is sadly true. They only know how to 50/50 book so to keep Aleister strong they have to not use him. A little surprised he's not back in a random tag team again tbh although I could see him stopping by NXT again for a bit in the fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said: If they're high on both guys, maybe don't have them face in the first round? Since they did have them face in the first round, I think they should have gone with Buddy. He's the hotter hand right now. I'm not as convinced as a lot of other people seem to be that Ali is destined for great things anyway. I like him just fine, I just haven't seen any breakout potential in him. But I acknowledge him getting hurt when he did obviously threw a wrench into whatever they had planned for him. No, you see when they're "high" on someone, it means they have to face each other right away. One wins in convincing fashion and that is that. Seriously though I'm sure not too much thought went into when who faces who when. Like Drew/Ricochet on RAW could have been the RAW final. Buddy/Ali was at least a semi final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Phantom Lord said: No, you see when they're "high" on someone, it means they have to face each other right away. One wins in convincing fashion and that is that. Seriously though I'm sure not too much thought went into when who faces who when. Like Drew/Ricochet on RAW could have been the RAW final. Buddy/Ali was at least a semi final. I disagree with this. I actually think a lot of care went into setting up this tournament, they just did it inside out. IMO, they either set up the final as Ricochet/Andrade or Corbin/Ali (I would say Ricochet/Andrade, but bias). Or pick your winner and pick his best opponent (I would say Andrade is the winner, and Ricochet is easily the best opponent for him.). Okay, who is the best semi finals opponent for either? Andrade/Ali is a great matchup, and Ricochet beating Corbin would have the crowd chomping at the bit because th crowd is obviously gonna be dead set on Corbin not winning. Okay, who else could win matches to get to the 2nd round? And just keep going from there. They might have set the bracket before they knew how well the Murphy matches with Roman and Bryan would get over too. Also there is value of just having some really good matches in the first round. You want people talking about the tournament as it’s going on. Overall, I think they succeeded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Craig H said: Sasha had Nia's best matches? Man, I don't know. I still Nia's best match was that Takeover match against Bayley. I'm the opposite, I thought that was absolutely horrible and was surprised Nia was ever able to bounce back as a monster heel from that tapping out in her first big match crap when Bayley was not even doing submission finishes. I liked the Sasha matches better, but felt Nia's absolute best were definitely vs. Asuka (NXT Osaka, Jan 2018 Raw, & takeover) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 hours ago, DreamBroken said: Struggling to think of that ever being the case, aside from people praising an nxt match with Eva Marie years ago, especially coming off of a nothing summerslam match. I'd say Charlotte and Sasha have done so far more/better. Of course you are struggling. You haven't exactly made it a secret you dislike Bayley. Nia's first big match with Bayley is probably still her best even with the dumb finish. The first series of Sasha matches were good, but Nia had already noticeably improved by then. Nia/Charlotte was completely forgettable at best. Charlotte' matches with Carmella were close to actively bad. Charlotte made the same mistake she and Becky did with Alexa in trying to make someone so far below them look credible. Carmella didn't start having decent matches until she made the effort to actively improve after realizing how shitty her reign was. Before then the best match she had w/o question was her NXT Women's Title match with Bayley. The mess with Lacey might have gone better had it not been so obviously impromptu, but Lacey's series of nothing better than decent matches with Becky make it obvious Charlotte wouldn't have done much better than Becky. 3 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said: I think the key to Bayley is she exhibits more patience than the others. Whether that leads one to thinking she can carry less experienced wrestlers is a good topic. But she's really good in the ring, and I'm surprised at how often many seem to think differently (March Madness aside). I think it helps, but not as much as you think. Charlotte is also pretty patient with people. Its more Becky and Sasha of the group who will get frustrated, and sometimes in Becky's case its with stuff that it actively her own fault (like continued use of her shitty missile dropkick that she has no range on). In general Bayley is just better at playing vulnerable and setting up spots for her opponents to shine on. Part of that is in character, but another is definitely just general ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 If they'd have put Murphy Vs Gable as a first rounder, and let them cut lose before Murphy goes over you not only give Buddy a win to follow up the Bryan win, but you give Gable a showcase match on a bigger stage, and then you can build from there for him. I'm sure people might start to get into him if they're exposed to his work a bit more, and then you can start putting him in storylines. Then you have Ali go over Shelton, since I don't really see any point in protecting Shelton at this point. Then you can do Buddy/Ali as a semi-final. The stakes are a little higher, and maybe build up to it for a couple of weeks and talk about their history a bit. Basic booking that makes sense and protects people a little bit is actually really easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 The mistake wasn't having Buddy lose this week, it was having him beat Bryan last week. That feels like a case of Bryan wanting to help out a young talent he think highly of, but you can do that without actually eating a three count. Bryan is likely feuding with Roman next, the last thing he should be doing is dropping clean falls to someone that far down the card as it'll likely only help so much and it makes it less effective the next time he tries to do so. For those who've been watching a while, it reminded me of when Flair wanted to drop a fall to a young Brian Pillman and whoever was in charge had to pull him aside and remind him that he had a series of big matches with Sting coming up and those were the one to protect. Also main roster Bayley at least during her Raw run (haven't seen enough of her SD run to comment) very much wrestled to the level of her opponent. With someone better she could have rather good matches, with someone around her level she could have decent matches, and against someone worse or green the matches often fell apart. If she's gotten better this past half year then god bless. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 I believe the two Sasha/Nia matches that were good were one in Boston (I was in attendance) which I think was a #1 contender's match and the other was actually part of a long women's gauntlet match where Sasha vs. Nia was probably the best stretch. Bayley's match with Nia Jax in the UK at an NXT show was pretty damn good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, L_W_P said: Maybe Vince finally saw Aladdin and wants to go one better? "No... he can't be a prince, damn it!" *sips 14th Red Bull of the day* "He's gonna be a KING! KING AAALLLIII! The damn Saudi's will LOVE it!" *snorts powder* "Call up Keith Lee and make his gear blue. We're gonna need to trademark 'Genie Lee'... Spell it with a 'J' and two 'E's though. Make it special. J-E-E-N-I-E... mmmm yeah" Like Vince has any idea who Keith Lee is, but everything else seems pretty accurate. Edited August 29, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, username said: For those who've been watching a while, it reminded me of when Flair wanted to drop a fall to a young Brian Pillman and whoever was in charge had to pull him aside and remind him that he had a series of big matches with Sting coming up and those were the one to protect. The only thing is, Flair is still Flair and Bryan is still Bryan. They can lose a fall and still be who they are, which is wrestling gods. You really think that losing to Pillman would have derailed a Sting feud, or losing to Buddy will derail a Reigns feud? If anything I think it shows that they have chinks in their armor and can be infallible, which gives their opponents a psychological advantage in the audience's eyes. And if they win, well, they're Flair and Bryan, they're supposed to. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I think WWE will have a hard time convincing anyone that Bryan has any shot of besting Roman, FWIW. In that context... yes, Bryan losing to someone low card at this particular moment is probably not helping. Bryan's been very fallible for the last half year or so, if anything he needs a chance to show that he's still a threat. Now there is the larger argument that wins and losses don't actually matter much at this point, and if one wants to argue that then I'm not sure I can disagree. I still think it's a bad way to operate though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorman Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 On 8/29/2019 at 12:09 AM, L_W_P said: Maybe Vince finally saw Aladdin and wants to go one better? Of course, the Vince joke is that he finally saw the animated version of Aladdin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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