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UFC 166: Velasquez vs. Dos Santos III (10/19/2013) - Houston, TX (Toyota Center)


Elsalvajeloco

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So fighters who dominate their opponents and win fights are doing something wrong because they don't allow the possibility of their opponents to make a dramatic ciomeback, who dare they.  A fighter is supposed to win his fight not pull off crane kicks just for thye sake of it.  It's great when those things develop in a fight naturally but that's a seconedary concern.

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I thought at the start of the third round "if Sanchez manages to win this fight, they'll make a movie about this." And I've never marked harder at a MMA fight than when Sanchez knocked him down in the third. And then he tried to put him in a submission! I was like "no, no, no, no, no." Great stuff, fuck it if it wasn't What a MMA Fight Should Be.

 

 

And Velasquez-Dos Santos was what I expected it to be. I figured it would be like the first fight and Dos Santos would get lucky with a KO shot or like the second and Velasquez would dominate. Such a wild ending with Dos Santos basically knocking himself out. And his face, geez.

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 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions

 

 

This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career.  Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually.  But yes the division is weak.  For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport.  When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. 

 

It was the same shit with Lesnar.  Lesnar wasn't a good fighter.  He wasn't even a "decent" fighter.  He sucked.  He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No.  I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style.  Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall.  It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you.  He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class.  Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain.   

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 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions

 

 

This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career.  Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually.  But yes the division is weak.  For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport.  When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. 

 

It was the same shit with Lesnar.  Lesnar wasn't a good fighter.  He wasn't even a "decent" fighter.  He sucked.  He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No.  I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style.  Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall.  It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you.  He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class.  Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain.   

 

I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional.  He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins.  He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me.

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Cain's style may be a bit underwhelming to watch, but he's no Clay Guida. Those little punches in the clinch do a ton of damage. Look at JDS's face.

Clay Guidance couldn't punch his way out if a paper bag.

I think Cain's negative charisma is his biggest flaw.

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 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions

 

 

This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career.  Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually.  But yes the division is weak.  For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport.  When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. 

 

It was the same shit with Lesnar.  Lesnar wasn't a good fighter.  He wasn't even a "decent" fighter.  He sucked.  He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No.  I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style.  Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall.  It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you.  He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class.  Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain.   

 

I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional.  He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins.  He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me.

 

 

This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself.  No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez.  Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe?  Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway.

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 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions

 

 

This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career.  Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually.  But yes the division is weak.  For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport.  When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. 

 

It was the same shit with Lesnar.  Lesnar wasn't a good fighter.  He wasn't even a "decent" fighter.  He sucked.  He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No.  I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style.  Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall.  It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you.  He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class.  Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain.   

 

I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional.  He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins.  He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me.

 

 

This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself.  No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez.  Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe?  Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway.

 

 

Third best guy is Werdum who got smashed by Junior in 2008.

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This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself.  No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez.  Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe?  Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway.

 

 

#3 - Werdum #4 - Barnett

I imagine.

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FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings:

 

Champion : Cain Velasquez
1- Junior Dos Santos
2- Daniel Cormier
3- Fabricio Werdum
4- Antonio Silva
5- Travis Browne
6- Josh Barnett
7- Alistair Overeem
8- Frank Mir
9- Stipe Miocic
10- Roy Nelson
 
Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10
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FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings:

 

 

 

Champion : Cain Velasquez
1- Junior Dos Santos
2- Daniel Cormier
3- Fabricio Werdum
4- Antonio Silva
5- Travis Browne
6- Josh Barnett
7- Alistair Overeem
8- Frank Mir
9- Stipe Miocic
10- Roy Nelson
 
Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10

Yeah, how the hell is Mir still in the top 10? 3 losses in a row. 

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FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings:

 

 

 

Champion : Cain Velasquez
1- Junior Dos Santos
2- Daniel Cormier
3- Fabricio Werdum
4- Antonio Silva
5- Travis Browne
6- Josh Barnett
7- Alistair Overeem
8- Frank Mir
9- Stipe Miocic
10- Roy Nelson
 
Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10

Yeah, how the hell is Mir still in the top 10? 3 losses in a row. 

 

 

Because his losses are to #1, #2 and #6?

 

In theory, losing to 1/2/6 does nothing to prove you aren't #7.

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