LethalStriker Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So fighters who dominate their opponents and win fights are doing something wrong because they don't allow the possibility of their opponents to make a dramatic ciomeback, who dare they. A fighter is supposed to win his fight not pull off crane kicks just for thye sake of it. It's great when those things develop in a fight naturally but that's a seconedary concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I thought at the start of the third round "if Sanchez manages to win this fight, they'll make a movie about this." And I've never marked harder at a MMA fight than when Sanchez knocked him down in the third. And then he tried to put him in a submission! I was like "no, no, no, no, no." Great stuff, fuck it if it wasn't What a MMA Fight Should Be. And Velasquez-Dos Santos was what I expected it to be. I figured it would be like the first fight and Dos Santos would get lucky with a KO shot or like the second and Velasquez would dominate. Such a wild ending with Dos Santos basically knocking himself out. And his face, geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career. Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually. But yes the division is weak. For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport. When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. It was the same shit with Lesnar. Lesnar wasn't a good fighter. He wasn't even a "decent" fighter. He sucked. He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No. I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style. Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall. It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you. He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class. Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Fuck Velaquez - Dos Santos 3. I want to see Melindez - Sanchez 2, goddammit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career. Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually. But yes the division is weak. For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport. When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. It was the same shit with Lesnar. Lesnar wasn't a good fighter. He wasn't even a "decent" fighter. He sucked. He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No. I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style. Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall. It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you. He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class. Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain. I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional. He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins. He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawful Metal Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Cain's style may be a bit underwhelming to watch, but he's no Clay Guida. Those little punches in the clinch do a ton of damage. Look at JDS's face. Clay Guidance couldn't punch his way out if a paper bag. I think Cain's negative charisma is his biggest flaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career. Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually. But yes the division is weak. For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport. When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. It was the same shit with Lesnar. Lesnar wasn't a good fighter. He wasn't even a "decent" fighter. He sucked. He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No. I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style. Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall. It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you. He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class. Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain. I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional. He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins. He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me. This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself. No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez. Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe? Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yeah, Cain is boring as fuck to watch and yet he's effective. But he's not even elite the way GSP is so you don't think "shit this guy is just untouchable". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You make it sound like the HW division is weak or unable to deal with someone like Cain all because Cain was the better fighter against JDS on two separate occasions This. It's been that way so far for Cain's career. Maybe someone like Werdum or Browne will have an answer for his style but it seems like the way to beat Cain would involve being quick on the feet and being able to neutralize that forward pressure or someone who can reverse his clinch dominance and control the fight there. It's hard for me to see those guys being athletic or quick enough to do that but we will see eventually. But yes the division is weak. For sure, without question the weakest division in the sport. When a guy can be so one dimensional and at the same time be so lacking in talent in other areas of MMA yet be the champion and thought of as clearly the best in the division then that says a lot about the division as a whole. It was the same shit with Lesnar. Lesnar wasn't a good fighter. He wasn't even a "decent" fighter. He sucked. He was the champion because he was a gigantic motherfucker who could wrestle and bumrush dudes. Hey LethalStriker, does that make me an unsophisticated MMA fan because I can recognize how shitty Lesnar was as a fighter and didn't appreciate his style? No. I see right through that shit the same way I see right through the garbage style that is Cain Velasquez' style. Because you do one thing well and do it against people who are completely lacking in the ability to defend it doesn't make you good overall. It means you should be thankful that you get to fight these guys that don't have an answer for you. He's not a good fighter if you hold him to the standard of "good" that you'd impose on a top fighter in another weight class. Hell, people shit on Clay Guida on this board for his style and that dude is way more diverse than Cain. I don't get why you think he is so one dimensional. He is a dominant wrestler, he has knocked out guys standing, and has finished 11 out of 13 wins. He isn't Anderson Silva or GSP, but smashing everyone who steps in front of him is good enough for me. This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself. No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez. Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe? Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway. Third best guy is Werdum who got smashed by Junior in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 If Werdum had any clue who JDS was back then, he would have showed up in shape for that fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't think it's a question of no one having the answer to Cain so much as it is everyone in the division has the answer to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Very good show. Great fight between Gilbert Melendez and Diego Sanchez, I'd have it as the second best Fight of the Year behind Jon Jones vs. Alexander Gustafsson at UFC 165. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 This. Cain's single dimension murdering the second best fighter in the division just exposes the division itself. No other heavyweight can get past Junior's gateway and Junior is now 1-2 against Velasquez. Third best guy is who, Cormier or Mir maybe? Those two guys won't earn title shots either if it involves getting past JDS's gateway. #3 - Werdum #4 - Barnett I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings: Champion : Cain Velasquez1- Junior Dos Santos 2- Daniel Cormier 3- Fabricio Werdum 4- Antonio Silva 5- Travis Browne 6- Josh Barnett 7- Alistair Overeem 8- Frank Mir 9- Stipe Miocic 10- Roy Nelson Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings: Champion : Cain Velasquez1- Junior Dos Santos 2- Daniel Cormier 3- Fabricio Werdum 4- Antonio Silva 5- Travis Browne 6- Josh Barnett 7- Alistair Overeem 8- Frank Mir 9- Stipe Miocic 10- Roy Nelson Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10 Yeah, how the hell is Mir still in the top 10? 3 losses in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshEngleman Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 FWIW, these are the UFC's rankings: Champion : Cain Velasquez1- Junior Dos Santos 2- Daniel Cormier 3- Fabricio Werdum 4- Antonio Silva 5- Travis Browne 6- Josh Barnett 7- Alistair Overeem 8- Frank Mir 9- Stipe Miocic 10- Roy Nelson Sherdog has Werdum above Cormier, and also includes Big Nog (#8) and Gonzaga (#10) in the top 10 Yeah, how the hell is Mir still in the top 10? 3 losses in a row. Because his losses are to #1, #2 and #6? In theory, losing to 1/2/6 does nothing to prove you aren't #7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 In questions of "why is this guy ranked here" ask yourself "who would I rank ahead of him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Is it crazy to think Mark Hunt deserves to be on there over Nelson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 It's the HW division so nothing is crazy. Nobody really strings together a bunch of quality wins in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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