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The Baseball Hall of Fame Thread


LethalStriker

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My Mgwire argument will always be the same: he's not good enough to go in, but you can't tell the story of baseball without him being in. He's the single most important player of the last 25ish years, and he and Sosa rescued baseball after the strike, pretty much by themselves. So, while I totally understand not voting for him, I certainly would.

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Even if you can have an exhibit in the Hall without inducting someone, that'd just be the ultimate slap in the face- not to the Hall, not to the players, but ultimately to the fans themselves. Something like that being done to let all of the BBWAA assholes off the hook would be a bigger stain on the game than anything those players did, and would basically say "nothing these players did mattered. Let's honor the real heroes of baseball history: The mighty BBWAA voter, those paragons of vartue, the true keepers of the flame that is True Baseball[tm]. Long may these voters hold the history of the beautiful sport amongst their hallowed ranks!" 

Seriously, if you're going to do that, then at least have the decency to make the even viewpoint: "Okay. All players with any credence they may have used PEDs or cheated in another manner are off the ballot. But in exchange, we're holding the BBWAA to the same standard. Any BBWAA voter who has been found to have plagiarized an article at any level automatically loses their ballot. And if we're keeping PED users off? Any BBWAA voter who's been caught with a drug charge- right down to a DUI- automatically loses their ballot."

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On 12/2/2019 at 3:35 PM, Kuetsar said:

Its the guys that are great and then fall of a cliff that make it hard to do a fair assessment of the 'roid guys. I don't think Mcgwire is a HOFer with or without the gas, but he wouldn't even be mentioned if he hadn't taken them. Who's to say that Bonds or Clemens wouldn't have broken down. HOF careers? Probably, but neither would be on the all time list like they are now.  My Ballot:

Bonds

Clemens 

Ramirez

Sheffield

Jeter

 

There's a good argument for Bonds as best player of our lifetimes before the steroids.  There's no way to know exactly when he started doing steroids, but it's been reported it is after seeing Mcgwire and Sosa hit all those homers in 1998.  He was already a 3 time MVP, had 7 straight years of OPS over 1.000, and 9 straight years of an OBP over .400.  He had the title of best player of the 1990s before anyone suspects he was on steroids.  He was the most feared hitter in the majors, he has twice as many intentional walks as anyone else in history.  If you were to take away all of the steroid years, he'd have 301, which is second all time behind Albert Pujols.  He was #1 when he retired.  Barry Bonds is so much better than everyone else on the ballot, that it's almost wrong to compare him to anyone else on the ballot.  

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

That's just trolling. 

Can John Sterling winning it be far behind?????????????

But on a serious note you know who should be the next recipient of the award? Howie Rose.

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On 12/11/2019 at 12:10 PM, Contentious C said:

And in the "After Harold Baines, why not?" category, Ken Harrelson receives the Ford Frick award.

I realize this doesn't make him a HOFer per se but... 

Candy Cummings and Ray Schalk can relax. We have a new worst member of the Hall. 

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15 minutes ago, Tabe said:

I realize this doesn't make him a HOFer per se but... 

Candy Cummings and Ray Schalk can relax. We have a new worst member of the Hall. 

He's not a member of the HOF, relax. 

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1 minute ago, OSJ said:

And who, pray tell do you mean by this? Miller was long overdue as was Simmons. If you want to make a case against either man, I'd love to hear it. I'm furious about Sweet Lou getting the shaft again, but that's at least tempered a bit by the induction of Ted Simmons, a truly excellent player who confused the voters because of his uniqueness (the truly great tend to be unique in some way, and Simmons' versatility was something we hadn't seen since Yogi and wouldn't see again until Biggio).

I quoted a post about Ken Harrelson so I'm referring to Hawk. 

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2 minutes ago, Tabe said:

I quoted a post about Ken Harrelson so I'm referring to Hawk. 

I realized that and dumped the post that you're quoting. Haven't had my morning coffee yet... (Was on a writing jag until 4AM). The scary thing about Hawk getting the Frick award is that it brings us closer to the day that they give the honor to the Fabulous Sports Babe.

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55 minutes ago, OSJ said:

He's not a member of the HOF, relax. 

It's almost like I said that in my post ?

Frick winners are still often referred to as "Hall of Fame Broadcaster" even if it's wrong. 

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19 hours ago, Tabe said:

It's almost like I said that in my post ?

Frick winners are still often referred to as "Hall of Fame Broadcaster" even if it's wrong. 

The very idea of anyone referring to the Hawk as a "Hall of Fame Broadcaster" nauseates me strangely. I suppose for a good chuckle I should look over the list of previous recipients, I'm sure that for every meritorious selection there's at least one grotesquely inappropriate choice like Scooter or Dizzy Dean. Although Dean did an excellent job of speaking English as his second language, unfortunately, there is reason to believe that it was his first... 

Just to update... A look over the Ford Frick Recipients (which didn't start until 1978) is actually filled with very well-thought out and deserving choices. In point of fact, the Hawk is really the only head-scratcher that's been selected. (Who does this guy have photographs of, anyway?) While Bob Uecker isn't to my particular taste and Dave "Drunk off his ass by the fifth inning" Niehaus could be a little hard to take, I can see the arguments for them both receiving the award.

Yeah, on a list that includes luminaries such as Mel Allen, Curt Gowdy, Bob Costas and the like the Hawk really stands out like a sore thumb or like a Phil Rizzuto on a list of HOF shortstops...

Edited by OSJ
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/12/2019 at 1:21 PM, Tabe said:

I realize this doesn't make him a HOFer per se but... 

Candy Cummings and Ray Schalk can relax. We have a new worst member of the Hall. 

Candy Cummings is in as an executive as well as a player. No, I don't think he invented the curveball any more than Frank Baker invented the homerun, but he did a bunch of stuff as an exec for early baseball that really can't be overlooked. Cummings has that Gil Hodges thing going,  or more appropriately, Monty Ward; when you add up all the parts it starts looking pretty damn impressive. Ray Schalk is in because he didn't cheat, I'm sorry, but that's about the best I can say. One of the worst HOF choices, makes Rick Ferrell seem almost palatable. 

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Uecker belongs in dammit! Ignore my insanely high bias. At least he got a statue. If Selig gets one, the dead construction workers from the stadium build and Uecker do as well.

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6 hours ago, Tabe said:

Cummings is in as a player. He didn't have much of a career as an executive and there's no mention of it on his plaque whatsoever. 

I should have been more clear, Cummings is in as a player, BECAUSE he was an executive, there is literally no other reason that he would get within shouting distance of the HOF.

One of the things that becomes abundantly clear to anyone who has read The Politics of Glory (as I know you have), is that post-playing career visibility is a major consideration among voters, (though it really shouldn't be). Look at the cases of Scooter and (though he isn't in yet, it's just a matter of time), Gil Hodges. Neither man really had what we would customarily think of as a HOF career (though Hodges came a whole hell of a lot closer than Scooter would ever dream of), yet both men stayed in the public eye long after their playing days ended. 

Contrast that with the very deserving Vern Stephens who finished a stellar career and went home to drink himself to death.

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On 12/11/2019 at 2:03 PM, supremebve said:

There's a good argument for Bonds as best player of our lifetimes before the steroids.  There's no way to know exactly when he started doing steroids, but it's been reported it is after seeing Mcgwire and Sosa hit all those homers in 1998.  He was already a 3 time MVP, had 7 straight years of OPS over 1.000, and 9 straight years of an OBP over .400.  He had the title of best player of the 1990s before anyone suspects he was on steroids.  He was the most feared hitter in the majors, he has twice as many intentional walks as anyone else in history.  If you were to take away all of the steroid years, he'd have 301, which is second all time behind Albert Pujols.  He was #1 when he retired.  Barry Bonds is so much better than everyone else on the ballot, that it's almost wrong to compare him to anyone else on the ballot.  

Meant to chime in on this much earlier... I'm a Seattle boy born and raised, which means I saw plenty of Ken Griffey jr. in his prime (let's face it, for ten years with the M's he was otherworldly, after leaving he became just another good player.) During the 1990s not once did I ever entertain the notion that Griffey was better than Bonds. Bonds had one year that Canseco smoked him and after that made it clear that he was the best fucking player that any of us would ever see. (Yeah, Trout has a good chance to challenge for the honor, but the jury is still out on that). 

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