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AUGUST 2019 WRESTLING CHAT.


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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisa_Frank

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So basically Casey was saying EVIL is a kiddie/Halloween version of the old Satanic/evil wrestler trope. 

Kevin Sullivan used to beat on his female disciples when they screwed up (at least he did Fallen Angel/Woman, not sure about Luna) on camera. As far as Honma: 

Quote

In November 2015, Honma's former girlfriend of 18 years, fellow professional wrestler Kiyoko Ichiki, accused him of domestic violence over the past four years. Honma denied the accusation, instead claiming that he was abused by her and stating that he was seeking legal action against her for trying to damage his career.[48][49]

 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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24 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

....how do we feel about Col DeBeers?

The thing about the evil foreigner gimmick is that at some point (because a majority of them were created based on social relevance at the time) each one would reach its shelf life eventually. I don't think Waldo Von Erich got more traction out of the Nazi gimmick in the back half of his career than the first half. At some point, Fritz just became American. So having someone be Colonel DeBeers today would be like having someone do the Sgt. Slaughter Iraqi sympathizer gimmick in 2019. You're about 30 years too late anyway. Now if you gave someone a gimmick revolving around land redistribution/land reform in support of white South Africans and in opposition to Julius Malema/the Economic Freedom Fighters and the ANC...that would be somewhat divisive to say the least. I don't see "we need to stop white genocide in South Africa" making it to television. 

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4 hours ago, Morganti said:

What wrestling gimicks from back in the day wouldn't work today?

Hulk_Hogan_Bio.jpg

In all seriousness, if a guy breaking into the business for the first time right now wanted to call himself Macho Man Randy Savage and do a gimmick where he's overprotective of his valet and tells her where to stand at ringside... probably not making it to TV.

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33 minutes ago, AxB said:

Hulk_Hogan_Bio.jpg

In all seriousness, if a guy breaking into the business for the first time right now wanted to call himself Macho Man Randy Savage and do a gimmick where he's overprotective of his valet and tells her where to stand at ringside... probably not making it to TV.

Re: the valet

I think it has more to do with it being hack since Liz and Macho spawned a bunch of clones and less the social climate. That and WWE has made valets largely passe.

24 minutes ago, alstein said:

Col.Debeers could work , have him be a white nationalist in a Truth Commission type unit.

The thing here is...if it's largely vague, then it's a toothless faction much like the Truth Commission. The first Truth Commission didn't work so why do it again?. If it's just straight up "darkies need to be removed from South Africa and stop taking our land we...uh..discovered and no one was living on" like I mentioned up above, he would get killed off faster than Muhammad Hassan. If it's just some scrub in the indies trying to be wild, that's a whole different story.

There is a boxer named Chris van Heerden (who is probably more famous for being a sparring partner for Conor McGregor and a video of him sparring with Conor) from South Africa. Either last year or the year before, his dad got fatally shot in a dispute with a black man. This was right around the time you a lot of people talking about the civil unrest in South Africa (including everyone's favorite U.S. president tweeting about it). Afterwards, he kinda went on a mini tangent about that. Since then he has signed with Top Rank (which airs their shows on the ESPN and ESPN+ platforms) and had a couple of prelim fights wearing boxing trunks with "DAD" on them. In his two or so fights under the Top Rank banner, I don't remember anyone bringing up the specifics of how or why his father died. If he ever fights on ESPN (and he might since their roster is kinda top heavy), I don't think they ever will go into it. They might do a video piece on him like they do for every fighter who lost a loved one, but it's going to be boilerplate or some "can't we all just get along?" racial Kumbaya. Any reputable network that broadcast sports, fake or real, is not about to intentionally walk into a hole they cannot dig themselves out of.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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35 minutes ago, AxB said:

In all seriousness, if a guy breaking into the business for the first time right now wanted to call himself Macho Man Randy Savage and do a gimmick where he's overprotective of his valet and tells her where to stand at ringside... probably not making it to TV.

Hmmmm... It depends really. Can it be done? I believe so. Especially if it’s performed well. Will it eventually lead to the same success Savage had? Most likely not. Closest that guy will get is “Marvelous” Marc Mero levels of success(basically nothing).

Edit: Actually, Daniel Bryan was running a gimmick like that with AJ Lee if you think about it.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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4 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

So having someone be Colonel DeBeers today would be like having someone do the Sgt. Slaughter Iraqi sympathizer gimmick in 2019. You're about 30 years too late anyway.


We are still at war with Iraq and several other countries in the region. It would be much, much cooler if the gimmick was outdated.

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21 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


We are still at war with Iraq and several other countries in the region. It would be much, much cooler if the gimmick was outdated.

Technically we aren't at war WITH Iraq, we are at war IN Iraq.  Same with Afghanistan.  

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2 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Hmmmm... It depends really. Can it be done? I believe so. Especially if it’s performed well. Will it eventually lead to the same success Savage had? Most likely not. Closest that guy will get is “Marvelous” Marc Mero levels of success(basically nothing).

Edit: Actually, Daniel Bryan was running a gimmick like that with AJ Lee if you think about it.

It's a Bix outrage article waiting to happen. Toxic Masculinity Man Randy Savage.

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36 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Technically we aren't at war WITH Iraq, we are at war IN Iraq.  Same with Afghanistan.  

I mean "technically" we haven't declared war at all, but that's getting into points other than the one I was making. 

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One of my jobs keeps Fox News on all day (apologies to any viewers here, but that's a special kind of hell). Anyway, I just saw Dan Rodimer on Fox and Friends announce that he is running for Congress. The headline was FORMER WWE STAR STEPS INTO POLITICAL ARENA which is extremely generous in my estimation. They had bitch ass Brian Kilmeade interviewing him in a ring and everything. 

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3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Hmmmm... It depends really. Can it be done? I believe so. Especially if it’s performed well. Will it eventually lead to the same success Savage had? Most likely not. Closest that guy will get is “Marvelous” Marc Mero levels of success(basically nothing).

Edit: Actually, Daniel Bryan was running a gimmick like that with AJ Lee if you think about it.

Even further than that...right now you kind of have the "reverse" of that gimmick, with Maria Kanellis playing Macho and Mike Kanellis playing Elizabeth. 

As far as gimmicks that wouldn't work today- Goldust seems like the biggest "wait, that really worked?" for the modern era. You have a wrestler who's considered evil for being gay, who turned face by saying "no, I am straight", and when he's been firmly face for a while, he adds "he got an electric shock that made him have comedic Tourette's" to the mix.  None of that stuff would ever fly in 2019 for pretty obvious reasons.

Heck, it's surprising that we never got a more modern post-legacy character mini-run where Goldust tried his mindgames on opponents and they responded "Uh...it's [year]. We're okay with this", leading Goldust into an existential crisis.

Edited by SorceressKnight
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2 hours ago, MORELOCK said:


We are still at war with Iraq and several other countries in the region. It would be much, much cooler if the gimmick was outdated.

 

1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

I mean "technically" we haven't declared war at all, but that's getting into points other than the one I was making. 

You failed to make a point. No one in 2019 would look at the news cycle and think that's the gimmick that would cause a stir right now or get someone over. Also, if anything, you would probably get a babyface pop rather than heel heat with that premise unlike if someone took that on from 1991 to five or six years after the Axis of Evil concept. 

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3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

You failed to make a point. No one in 2019 would look at the news cycle and think that's the gimmick that would cause a stir right now or get someone over. Also, if anything, you would probably get a babyface pop rather than heel heat with that premise unlike if someone took that on from 1991 to five or six years after the Axis of Evil concept. 

Seriously, we have been fighting a war for almost 20 years against a group of somewhere between 2,000-5,000(at the start of the war) people.  At this point, I don't think you could get any real heat based on these wars.  The average person couldn't care less about these two wars.  Also there is no way to create a evil version of this current enemy without being overwhelmingly, undeniably racist.  

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