LoneWolf&Subs Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) It’s kind of funny in retrospect that ROH went from being owned by a penny pincher who won’t gamble into putting money into making this little promotion look attractive, to another ownership group that are a bunch of penny pinchers. Edited July 23, 2019 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 In retrospect, letting Cody and the Bucks run All In looks like an all-time bad decision. Sure, they might have lost them over it still, but it's a lot less likely they leave and become foundation stones in the company that completely usurped ROH's position as the number 2 company, and blew past them in importance literally overnight. And, hell, considering how much the Bucks didn't want the WWE schedule, how anti-WWE Kenny mostly has been, and possible lingering negative feelings from Cody, ROH might not have even lost their draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt925 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: They're band-aids on a broken leg. And they’re all getting ripped off between September and December anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 ROH really killed a lot of my interest in their product when they had Jeff Cobb lose to Matt God Damn Taven. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said: ROH really killed a lot of my interest in their product when they had Jeff Cobb lose to Matt God Damn Taven. They put themselves in a bad spot. It would have looked bad if either Marty or Cobb won the title, then Marty goes and has a middle of the road BOSJ and Cobb most likely has a middle of the road G1. I know Lethal was stale as champion, but to build up Matt Fucking Taven as the guy? I would have put the title on RUSH. At least he's over. Not depending so heavily on New Japan and Bullet Club would have also been a novel idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 ROH used to be a place that took talented relative unknowns and gave them a platform to show their worth. That worked for them because even if they lost a Punk or whoever they would have the next crop of guys developed and ready to take their place. It could survive as an independent developmental territory. Now they are just another IMPACT out here attaching themselves to established acts who aren't going to do anything for the future of the promotion. I'd argue IMPACT is doing a better job of developing talent right now. I'd argue that MLW is doing a better job than either of them. ROH half-assed an opportunity to be an alternative to WWE and they blew that chance years ago. Yeah, they got a little TV deal with Sinclair and they gained some viewers and HD production but by that point it was too late. The only chance they had was to sign up their top guys to contract extensions and Sinclair would have had to give them a better TV slot across their stations. They would have had to gamble on young talent and pay them early in order to keep them from signing with NXT. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I'd like to add that is why AEW is in the position they are in right now. Khan is paying these performers and taking a risk that even if money is lost the first year or two he will be able to turn a profit by year 3 and a few of these guys will end up being legitimate stars. For example, I read that MJF signed an extension. It's good for MJF because he's working a lighter schedule than WWE and probably making more money right now than he would on an NXT deal. He also gets to appear on primetime television and have a promotion to himself where he's going to be a featured player and not have to worry about 100+ other dudes who are hanging around the performance center or in catering. It works for AEW because he's a young guy with a promising future who isn't a WWE cast off and they have him locked in as a mainstay for years to come. ROH didn't take any risks at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: It’s kind of funny in retrospect that ROH went from being owned by a penny pincher who won’t gamble into putting money into making this little promotion look attractive, to another ownership group that are a bunch of penny pinchers. Please tell me you aren't referring to Carey here, because if you are that is just about the dumbest thing ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: ROH used to be a place that took talented relative unknowns and gave them a platform to show their worth. That worked for them because even if they lost a Punk or whoever they would have the next crop of guys developed and ready to take their place. It could survive as an independent developmental territory. Now they are just another IMPACT out here attaching themselves to established acts who aren't going to do anything for the future of the promotion. I'd argue IMPACT is doing a better job of developing talent right now. I'd argue that MLW is doing a better job than either of them. ROH half-assed an opportunity to be an alternative to WWE and they blew that chance years ago. Yeah, they got a little TV deal with Sinclair and they gained some viewers and HD production but by that point it was too late. The only chance they had was to sign up their top guys to contract extensions and Sinclair would have had to give them a better TV slot across their stations. They would have had to gamble on young talent and pay them early in order to keep them from signing with NXT. Agree with all this. They almost remind me of ECW on TNN as they got more exposure and production value but at the same time lost most of the talent that made them unique. For a long time now they've been getting by as a place to see NJPW guys go over their roster of American guys who also work in various other promotions and often do better work in said other indies. That's kind of a thing for indy wrestling in general now as not as many promotions have a core group of "their guys" as was the case 10 or so years back, but that's a different story. I can't think of anyone aside from maybe the Briscoes and Jay Lethal that are uniquely ROH talent. Even the guys with exclusive contracts just feel like they're biding their time until something else comes along. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, sabremike said: Please tell me you aren't referring to Carey here, because if you are that is just about the dumbest thing ever. I was thinking of Gabe. But yeah, Carey was the money man, not him. I get Gabe didn’t want the company to fold fast like ECW, but they could’ve invested in better camera equipment, and maybe a guy that had a better eye for shooting a wrestling show on a budget during the DVD years. Like PWG, and Smark Mark indie shows tended to look better than the more high profile ROH did when he was in charge. Edited July 23, 2019 by LoneWolf&Subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 So, for a westerner who likes NJPW, Rev Pro is the better promotion to support? And if you're a Wrestler trying to get into NJPW, joining Rev Pro is a better bet than joining ROH? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) Depends, did PWG stop existing all of a sudden or something? At least on the fan side of things (especially if you like juniors style) I guess it's more likely to get a guy signed by WWE than New Japan tho. Edited July 23, 2019 by Tromatagon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, SorceressKnight said: Even beyond the featured players mix, the problem is that EVOLVE and NXT have turned ROH into the Saturday Night Live of indie wrestling: It's just a bad restaurant in a good location. ROH getting prospects doesn't work, because ultimately, the big problem is that ROH means nothing anymore. EVOLVE has the reputation of "sign with us and you'll be almost guaranteed a WWE contract", and ROH can't even counter with 'well, sign with US and you can work in New Japan!" because there's been enough time in the ROH/New Japan relationship to know by and large, ROH standouts aren't really becoming important in New Japan from their ROH run. 7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: ROH used to be a place that took talented relative unknowns and gave them a platform to show their worth. That worked for them because even if they lost a Punk or whoever they would have the next crop of guys developed and ready to take their place. It could survive as an independent developmental territory. Now they are just another IMPACT out here attaching themselves to established acts who aren't going to do anything for the future of the promotion. I'd argue IMPACT is doing a better job of developing talent right now. I'd argue that MLW is doing a better job than either of them. ROH half-assed an opportunity to be an alternative to WWE and they blew that chance years ago. Yeah, they got a little TV deal with Sinclair and they gained some viewers and HD production but by that point it was too late. The only chance they had was to sign up their top guys to contract extensions and Sinclair would have had to give them a better TV slot across their stations. They would have had to gamble on young talent and pay them early in order to keep them from signing with NXT. 4 hours ago, L_W_P said: The other issue facing ROH now is that they lost their hook; pure, athletic, wrestling. When ROH was the super Indy it was because they were serving up Danielson v Joe while WWE had Renee Dupree vs Hardcore Holly. Now every promotion has that 'workrate' style & WWE have perfected it with every main event getting the "fight forever" or "boo/yay punches" spots in before trading finisher bombs. Yep, all this. Too many companies came up that did ROH better than ROH, while, at the same time, ROH declined and lost every bit of soul and personality it ever had. Unless you really, really love the Briscoes and Jay Lethal, there's no reason to watch ROH. You can see every other talented wrestler from ROH having great matches in more interesting promotions. Edited July 23, 2019 by Technico Support 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said: I was thinking of Gabe. But yeah, Carey was the money man, not him. I get Gabe didn’t want the company to fold fast like ECW, but they could’ve invested in better camera equipment, and maybe a guy that had a better eye for shooting a wrestling show on a budget during the DVD years. Like PWG, and Smark Mark indie shows tended to look better than the more high profile ROH did when he was in charge. There was a big show in '07 or '08 that had a much-hyped Danielson/McGuinness match on it that I couldn't wait to see. Then my dvd comes in the mail and the hard cam is totally out of focus for the entire match (maybe the whole show, I don't remember). I was so pissed. How hard is it to get a fucking in-focus shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneWolf&Subs Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Log said: There was a big show in '07 or '08 that had a much-hyped Danielson/McGuinness match on it that I couldn't wait to see. Then my dvd comes in the mail and the hard cam is totally out of focus for the entire match (maybe the whole show, I don't remember). I was so pissed. How hard is it to get a fucking in-focus shot? It was the match from “United”. I like to pretend we were watching the match from the 1st person perspective of a person going blind. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 15 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: In retrospect, letting Cody and the Bucks run All In looks like an all-time bad decision. Sure, they might have lost them over it still, but it's a lot less likely they leave and become foundation stones in the company that completely usurped ROH's position as the number 2 company, and blew past them in importance literally overnight. And, hell, considering how much the Bucks didn't want the WWE schedule, how anti-WWE Kenny mostly has been, and possible lingering negative feelings from Cody, ROH might not have even lost their draws. Totally agree with this. It's like they attempted to have an open marriage, and then Cody/Bucks immediately wanted to break up. But that aside, they certainly lucked out being able to hook up with the Khans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I thought I heard Khan say he offered to buy ROH from SBC, That would've been great for ROH. It would've been easier for them to try to get closer to the Gabe era if they were to have 2 hours on a major network every like the DVD era. They have a ton of great talent but the Wrestling isn't going to be at the expectation of the early 2000s. There is so much good Wrestling even in WWE. Even AEW talks about Presenting a more sports oriented Wrestling Promotion and stats and things but you see alot of parody Wrestling and comedy. They are almost bringing on the impression of wanting to be an American version of New Japan on one hand, certain people will roll their eyes when they see guys that do bring on a serious approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) If they just came out of the gate telling everyone that wrestling is a medium and not a genre and they attempt to explore all of that instead of that SERIOUS SPORT APPROACH people wouldn't keep bringing that up constantly whenever they do something outside of the box to those who look at wrestling as a genre and not a medium. They really shot themselves in the foot with that line. I mean, they probably don't give a shit that it keeps being brought up but it's their own fault that it does. If Universal Studios came out saying they wanted to be the serious drama company and then proceeded to make a couple comedy movies, people probably wouldn't say anything but wrestling is viewed differently than it should be in my opinion. Edited July 23, 2019 by Tromatagon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Log said: There was a big show in '07 or '08 that had a much-hyped Danielson/McGuinness match on it that I couldn't wait to see. Then my dvd comes in the mail and the hard cam is totally out of focus for the entire match (maybe the whole show, I don't remember). I was so pissed. How hard is it to get a fucking in-focus shot? Oh man. I tried to watch Joe/Homicide vs Kobashi/Ki and it's like nobody ever heard of white balance. The difference in look cutting from the hard cam to the handheld was SO jarring it kinda ruined it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 When they were doing the Anniversary celebrations of Match of the Day a few years ago, they started showing a lot of archive footage. Everything from the 60s and 70s (shot on film) looked great in HD. But the 80s and 90s (shot on video) highlights looked terrible in HD, because the High Def render had sharpened and enhanced all the visual noise and imperfections you get with the video format. It did show why shows need an HD remaster, as opposed to just an upscale. But because of that, I think people who learned how to be a film crew in the video era really picked up some bad habits. You're supposed to do it like thus to get it perfect, but if you forget, don't worry, no one will be able to tell. We need TVs that we can tell to broadcast in 240p, to make old stuff less unwatchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Eric blasts dirtsheets https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/eric-bischoff-blasts-reports-on-his-wwe-role-talks-meeting-656645/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, D.Z said: Eric blasts dirtsheets https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/07/eric-bischoff-blasts-reports-on-his-wwe-role-talks-meeting-656645/ The man's inability to learn jackshit in twenty years is truly astonishing. Someday the poor man will be found dead at his desk because some wag drew a chalk circle around it. Edited July 23, 2019 by OSJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Or left a Crow between him and the door. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Or because The Ultimate Warrior wouldn't stop talking to him in the mirror. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 Senora Ciber, the Main Mom: 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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