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JUNE 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION - Thread 2

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58 minutes ago, Execproducer said:

Are you trying to pull off a reset of the timeline like in Flash? I don't think it worked.

Of course not. It was a Legends of Tomorrow attempt at fucking with the timeline. 

 

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2 hours ago, Execproducer said:

Tromatagon was right. I really didn't need to know that.

That scene in the shower where he's singing Cool Jerk? Yeah he's doing that too.

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

so is Seth Rollins, and he's a face

Someone beat to that joke earlier. Beyond that I was talking more as a character opposed to real life. It would be like early Alexa Bliss in NXT. Every damn mannerism and speech makes them come across as a heel despite the flashy high flying in their wrestling.

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Jim Neidhart was in the KKK?

And not a single Who Klux Klan reference?

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11 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

"Hello, my name is Paul Heyman, advocate for Vincent K. McMahon, Jr."

If he calls Vince "Junior", Vince might not even wait for Heyman to return backstage to fire him, he might walk out and fire him on live television.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

 

Vince's Mom didn't  live a life full of stress, sleep deprivation, steroids, steak roll ups, 80's coke use, and total obsession with business. I think those genetic extra points have been spent.

Vince’s mom doesn’t have a lawyer who will make sure Vince will be in charge even if he ends up barely alive like Captain Pike. 

Edit: Why isn’t there a Masked Magician heel wrestler who exposes the business after every move he takes, or executes?

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Jim Neidhart was in the KKK?

And not a single Who Klux Klan reference?

That looks like an old WWF ring.

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In 2019 CM Punk isn't in wrestling, loathes wrestling (not just WWE), he's countersuing his former best friend for defamation, had a failed run in MMA, and...now does a commercial as a shill for...NASCAR?

This is truly the weirdest timeline, but a paycheck is a paycheck and the money is still green I guess...

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Posted (edited)

Notice he never mentions NASCAR. I bet you he filmed that thinking it was for the NHL on NBC.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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10 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Vince's Mom didn't  live a life full of stress, sleep deprivation, steroids, steak roll ups, 80's coke use, and total obsession with business.

You don't know that for sure.

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6 hours ago, Robert s said:

If he calls Vince "Junior", Vince might not even wait for Heyman to return backstage to fire him, he might walk out and fire him on live television.

You know, I was actually thinking about that before I went back and put in the "Junior", but I did it anyway just for completeness of phrase. 

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Wow, I just realized we are in Great Balls of Fire season, and we haven’t had one since 2017.

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58 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Wow, I just realized we are in Great Balls of Fire season, and we haven’t had one since 2017.

No wonder Gold Bond Powder is one of their sponsors now.

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So I just watched Defiant's Built to Destroy 2019 ippv live. Well, I watched the last two hours of it, because they forgot to put the start time on their website. But what I did see was good, and the main event (David Starr vs Rampage Brown for the belt) was excellent. The semi-main was acceptable considering Simon Miller was in it (youtuber with WhatCulture who is trying to be a Pro-Wrestler; He sucks but the fans inexplicably love him). They've figured out that he should be booked as a clueless rookie who the veteran heels can outsmart at every turn. And he went fifteen whole minutes without gassing out, whereas on Loaded he was badly blown up after ten, so either he's improved his cardio or Nathan Cruz was taking care of him.

But yeah, Starr vs Rampage has headlined two ippvs in 2019, and they were both great matches. Both different, since one was Face vs Face and one was Face vs Heel plus shenanigans. Oh, and Rampage got a concussion in the opening minutes of the February match and nobody could tell because they covered for it brilliantly. That's why there was no physicality in the build up to him vs Rory Coyle in March. He wasn't cleared.

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6 hours ago, Six String Orchestra said:

I'm still wishing for another Beware of Dog.

Was it Beware of Dog that lost power and they had to redo it a few days later?

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2 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Was it Beware of Dog that lost power and they had to redo it a few days later?

Yep.

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Since we’re about to have a few days of debate about chair shots to the head and the usual gatekeepers tut-tutting at Cody, I was thinking if the freakout over chairshots to the head is a little over-wrought and what made everyone so sensitive to it.

The ban was a WWE response to the Benoit murder/suicide, right? And it’s easy to look back at clips of chairshots and draw a line to his brain damage? But we also know the headbutts contributed and, in fact, the very nature of wrestling with repetitive sub-concussive bumps is dangerous.

Isn’t it kind of like football where everyone freaks out over the big hits and ignores that play by play contact is doing damage?

I mean, I’m not calling for Tanaka and Awesome chair battles and Beyond the Mat is still hard to watch, but isn’t the issues with chair shots kind of people letting a WWE directive define a issue. It’s the same with how people think a traditional piledriver is unsafe and it’s really not.

And all this is going on while everyone is taking apron bumps and doing dives in every match.

I mean, Darby’s bump tonight was just as dangerous as the chair shot but no one seems as turned off by it.

 

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The current atmosphere surrounding concussions is what made a single headshot just as effective as 24 shots to the back. Debate it all day but they knew exactly what they were doing. You also might wanna spoiler that though i bet some people haven't seen it yet

1 hour ago, Hagan said:

Since we’re about to have a few days of debate about chair shots to the head and the usual gatekeepers tut-tutting at Cody, I was thinking if the freakout over chairshots to the head is a little over-wrought and what made everyone so sensitive to it.

The ban was a WWE response to the Benoit murder/suicide, right? And it’s easy to look back at clips of chairshots and draw a line to his brain damage? But we also know the headbutts contributed and, in fact, the very nature of wrestling with repetitive sub-concussive bumps is dangerous.

Isn’t it kind of like football where everyone freaks out over the big hits and ignores that play by play contact is doing damage?

I mean, I’m not calling for Tanaka and Awesome chair battles and Beyond the Mat is still hard to watch, but isn’t the issues with chair shots kind of people letting a WWE directive define a issue. It’s the same with how people think a traditional piledriver is unsafe and it’s really not.

And all this is going on while everyone is taking apron bumps and doing dives in every match.

I mean, Darby’s bump tonight was just as dangerous as the chair shot but no one seems as turned off by it.

 

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I'd rather see no chairshots to the head than people just doing Lance Storm "I comb your hair with this chair" versions. But it's like anything in Wrestling. Do it once a year or more infrequently and it's a big deal. Do it ten times in five minutes and it means nothing. People used to think The Rock was less tough than everyone else because he'd always take chairshots to the head on the palms of his hands, and real men kept their arms down. Times have changed.

The broken table and the Superkick have both gone the way of the Clothesline and the DDT. So be it.

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I say let the wrestlers decide for themselves. It's their body/brain, not mine, so if they want to risk it - so be it.

But do I want to see something like Mankind/Rock at the 1999 Rumble? Nah.

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I worry about head trauma for several reasons, but mostly because there isn't enough research to show what the effects of repeated head traumas are and the correlation to a long, healthy life. CTE was something that was confined strictly to boxers until what, the mid-2000s? I have significant experience with my own personal head traumas (I have practically no memory of most of 2002 or 2003, for example, thanks to a severe concussion), and if I had known then what I know now I probably would have made some different choices in life instead of the ones that lead to a few of those head traumas.

I also worry about the safety of the performers when I watch pretty much anything, whether it's wrestling or gymnastics or Cirque du Soleil or whatever. I want them to have healthy. substantive lives after their careers are over. Obviously there are risks in anything, but something like an unprotected chairshot to the head is a situation where I don't think the significant risks outweigh whatever reward you're going to get. (And things like ring apron bumps, especially taken directly on one's spinal column, goodness gracious I struggle to understand what possible positive there can be.)

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

I say let the wrestlers decide for themselves. It's their body/brain, not mine, so if they want to risk it - so be it.

But do I want to see something like Mankind/Rock at the 1999 Rumble? Nah.

Letting the athletes decide is pretty much the worst idea.  Athletes are taught/conditioned to be “tough” and to “play through the pain”.  Concussion sufferers are also among the least aware of just how severe their own injuries are.  

Letting the wrestlers decide would be like running a rehab clinic and letting the addicts decide how much drugs they can take.  

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Also, while I don’t really have a problem with this particular chair shot in this particular instance, I’ve seen people defend it by saying it was the boss who chose to do it so that’s better than forcing someone else to do it. But you have all the other wrestlers watching the boss take the shot and they will pressure themselves to be willing to do the same thing. 

As long as it’s saved for rare occasions and they sell the hell out of the spot I don’t really mind it. And it was a really solid shot but you can see he wasn’t trying to kill him with it. 

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One day, someone will make a proper documentary on Death Match wrestlers, exposing just how much manipulation and pressure (and bribery) is involved in persuading someone to take a back bump onto a scissors board or whatever. Because I can't imagine that the boys themselves come up with these ideas.

As far as head trauma goes, there was a documentary on BBC radio last month about it. It started with American Football and Boxing, but then segued into survivors of domestic violence and how their abusers get away with it when the victim has memory problems due to brain damage, and can't maintain a consistent testimony. Suggested that lawmakers/ enforcers should have a better understanding of that.

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