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Dolfan in NYC

JUNE 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION - Thread 2

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I mean, he could have simply praised his coworkers without inviting comparisons that are, right now, not favorable, and starting an argument he's not equipped to win. I don't think anyone is being needlessly hard on Seth for being a company guy; he's just wrong. It's fair to point that out.

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15 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

I mean, he could have simply praised his coworkers without inviting comparisons that are, right now, not favorable, and starting an argument he's not equipped to win. I don't think anyone is being needlessly hard on Seth for being a company guy; he's just wrong. It's fair to point that out.

This.  I'm a little unclear if Seth is supposed to be posting in character or not, but, if he is, it's a heel promo, not a babyface one.  And, if he's not, he probably should have re-thought the comment before he hit enter.  There's no rule saying you have to say outlandish things on the internet.

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It's not really relevant that he's wrong. He is in a position where he has to support the brand. Rusev wouldn't be tweeting all the things he tweets if he were the top champion instead of being stuck in catering. 

I'm not sure I understand how it's a heel tweet for him to defend the wrestling aspect of the company. If that makes him a heel, I don't see how Becky is a face. 

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2 hours ago, MORELOCK said:


Well, sure. But that's what putting over the product is - an attempt to push the brand, which if done correctly will result in more tickets being sold. Of course it's not going to sell tickets to the people that vehemently disagree with him, but I doubt there is anything he could have said that could have sold tickets to those people.

Well, I agree sort of... Pushing the brand theoretically will result in additional ticket sales, this is likely true. However, I'm an old school guy (it's in the posting handle, ya know), so I'm more on the side of pushing a specific event to boost ticket sales. You're looking big picture and I'm looking at the small and we're both right as there really isn't any way to measure the effectiveness of a promo geared to either one or the other. What I'm sure that we can agree on is that a heelish promo is only truly good to whip up the crowd one city at a time. I don't care to know that the heel is travelling the USA working the same match every night, I'm interested in seeing him get his ass kicked by the babyface because he dissed my hometown, I could care less what he said about Peoria. 

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Just now, MORELOCK said:

It's not really relevant that he's wrong. He is in a position where he has to support the brand. Rusev wouldn't be tweeting all the things he tweets if he were the top champion instead of being stuck in catering. 

I'm not sure I understand how it's a heel tweet for him to defend the wrestling aspect of the company. If that makes him a heel, I don't see how Becky is a face. 

Not saying I agree with it, but I guess I could kind of understand that perspective because the company itself has been the "heel" since about 1998 or so. Which is for sure part of a larger creative issue. 

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

People constantly bitch about Niners and whoever else talking about Sasha Banks, but damn, the bitching about Seth Rollins on here is the most tired shit ever.

Morelock already covered it, but Rollins is the top guy or the second top guy in the company. What the fuck is he supposed to say? My company sucks and the wrestlers here can't put on good matches because the agents suck too? Come on people.

I disagree with Morelock on a lot, but these words are the fucking truest ones said on here:

Let's maybe cool it on the outrage for a top guy hyping up his company and himself.

Settle down son, no one is expressing outrage. Seth put himself in an argument that he can't win and cut a heel promo on his fans when he's supposed to be the face.  You do shit that stupid you will get called on it.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

It's not really relevant that he's wrong.

It is, insofar as people are responding to him, and he's responding to them. He created a debate on his timeline, in front of his followers, where there wasn't one. (At the very least, he made it more explicit than it otherwise would have been.) Maybe that makes the brand look stronger; I would argue that--given the present reality and that many people seem to disagree--it does not. But it doesn't stand to reason that he had to initiate this conversation, in either case. Of course he can, and he can also feel however he feels. But people can respond too.

Edited by Beech27
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Is saying you and your co-workers are the best at what you do that outlandish? Of course someone will disagree, but there's nothing outrageous about the basic statement in the context of pro wrestling.

This shows how social media is a blessing and a curse. For wrestlers, it allows them to connect with fans, promote shows, and expand storylines. But it also leaves them open to a lot of uninvited criticism.

I'd be worried if Rollins didn't think WWE was the best. Wrestling isn't known for its modesty.

Many of us have noted that Rollins often sounds whiny and entitled.  What he said here isn't bad or necessarily wrong. At worst, it suffers from bad delivery. But that's just who he is.

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At their core, Seth and Sasha suffer from the same issue of being too far in the tank for themselves.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

This shows how social media is a blessing and a curse. For wrestlers, it allows them to connect with fans, promote shows, and expand storylines. But it also leaves them open to a lot of uninvited criticism.

If think that's the key point: he posted a debatable point on social media. That is, almost literally, the definition of inviting criticism. (If not of him and his company directly, the argument itself.) This is how the whole thing is supposed to work.

Edited by Beech27

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3 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Is saying you and your co-workers are the best at what you do that outlandish? Of course someone will disagree, but there's nothing outrageous about the basic statement in the context of pro wrestling.

This shows how social media is a blessing and a curse. For wrestlers, it allows them to connect with fans, promote shows, and expand storylines. But it also leaves them open to a lot of uninvited criticism.

I'd be worried if Rollins didn't think WWE was the best. Wrestling isn't known for its modesty.

Many of us have noted that Rollins often sounds whiny and entitled.  What he said here isn't bad or necessarily wrong. At worst, it suffers from bad delivery. But that's just who he is.

You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I've been thinking about how Rollins comments got under my skin when if Samoa Joe said the same thing I'd probably just ignore it. I think the answer may well be that I tend to read tweets and what-not in the voices of the people that make them and something about Seth's Midwest accent has always had the nails on chalkboard effect on me. Maybe it's because I'm a Northwest guy transplanted to the Mountain West and thus lack any sort of accent. but Seth has always grated on me. Just a thought.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

If think that's the key point: he posted a debatable point on social media. That is, almost literally, the definition of inviting criticism. (If not of him and his company directly, the argument itself.) This is how the whole thing is supposed to work.

My point is that there's debate, and there's going over the top with criticism. No one invites abuse, and that often happens in cases like that.

Berating someone is not how it's supposed to work. And we all know that's what often happens among some circles.

Edited by Burgundy LaRue

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Seth Rollins has blocked Bryan Alvarez on Twitter

At a minimum that makes him smarter than my dumb ass

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2 minutes ago, OSJ said:

You know, maybe I'm wrong, but I've been thinking about how Rollins comments got under my skin when if Samoa Joe said the same thing I'd probably just ignore it. I think the answer may well be that I tend to read tweets and what-not in the voices of the people that make them and something about Seth's Midwest accent has always had the nails on chalkboard effect on me. Maybe it's because I'm a Northwest guy transplanted to the Mountain West and thus lack any sort of accent. but Seth has always grated on me. Just a thought.

Rollins has a nasal whine to his voice and it's why, even when he's giving a good promo, it sounds bad. Moxley has a Midwest accent too, but he's got a gravelly undertone to his vocals that makes him sound real.

It feels like this is more of a case of 'killing the messenger.' 

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The cool thing is nobody said any of this shit when Victor Quinones called W*ING the best wrestling in the entire world.

W*ING 1 WWE 0

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4 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

My point is that there's debate, and there's going over the top with criticism. No one invites abuse, and that often happens in cases like that.

Berating someone is not how it's supposed to work. And we all know that's what often happens among some circles.

The sad truth of the internetz is over-reaction. If I were to post on my seldom-used Facebook page (which Kathy actually uses) that I'm the greatest horror writer in the world I would get called on the carpet for making a ridiculous statement that I can't possibly back up with sales figures. I'm good and when I'm on my game I can hang with the best, but I've never written a solo novel so no best-sellers to point at or anything like that. In short, it would be an over-the-top bit of hyperbole that would likely get me mocked by lots of folks and rightly so. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Rollins has a nasal whine to his voice and it's why, even when he's giving a good promo, it sounds bad. Moxley has a Midwest accent too, but he's got a gravelly undertone to his vocals that makes him sound real.

It feels like this is more of a case of 'killing the messenger.' 

By Jove, I think you've nailed it! Moxley doesn't sound bad because there's no nasal whine. Sometimes the simplest solution is the truth. 

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3 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

The cool thing is nobody said any of this shit when Victor Quinones called W*ING the best wrestling in the entire world.

W*ING 1 WWE 0

Well he wasn't entirely wrong... W*ING is 4Ever

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6 minutes ago, OSJ said:

The sad truth of the internetz is over-reaction. If I were to post on my seldom-used Facebook page (which Kathy actually uses) that I'm the greatest horror writer in the world I would get called on the carpet for making a ridiculous statement that I can't possibly back up with sales figures. I'm good and when I'm on my game I can hang with the best, but I've never written a solo novel so no best-sellers to point at or anything like that. In short, it would be an over-the-top bit of hyperbole that would likely get me mocked by lots of folks and rightly so. 

But wrestling was and is built on bravado and hyperbole. So to that end, Rollins did what has always been done. Only because it's Rollins  defending WWE does it get crapped on. And even then, there are guys/girls in WWE who could have said the same thing without as much blowback (Samoa Joe, as you used as an example).

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30 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Not saying I agree with it, but I guess I could kind of understand that perspective because the company itself has been the "heel" since about 1998 or so. Which is for sure part of a larger creative issue. 


From what I can tell, Rollins wasn't even defending the company itself. The creative process, Vince, the scripted promos - all of the things that play into the "crowd vs. company" dynamic that they've built - none of that was mentioned. He only talked up the in-ring wrestling. While it's clear that many disagree, if we're just talking about the in-ring work, that isn't all that controversial a statement. Last night's PPV matches were all well received here outside of the match that Rollins himself was in. Of the many, many criticisms levied against WWE, very few of them seem to be about the actual in-ring work. If we're talking strictly in-ring, can that many modern-day companies really be seen as that much better than WWE? I could see people arguing NJPW, but others?

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17 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

My point is that there's debate, and there's going over the top with criticism. No one invites abuse, and that often happens in cases like that.

Berating someone is not how it's supposed to work. And we all know that's what often happens among some circles.

That's fair, and that is often the case. I'm sure among his myriad replies many people are just being awful. But among those with more than 18 bots for followers, everything I've seen has been reasonable. And I think this board has been as well.

Anyway, Seth should think highly of himself and his coworkers; he should give voice to that however he wants. People, if they disagree, can say so. I happen to disagree with him, and think he comes across as defensive, and a rather poor reader of the room, given the show that just happened, and the match/angle he took part in on it. As noted, though, that is somewhat Seth's affect.

Regardless, I don't see a problem with any of this.

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34 minutes ago, OSJ said:

Settle down son, no one is expressing outrage. Seth put himself in an argument that he can't win and cut a heel promo on his fans when he's supposed to be the face.  You do shit that stupid you will get called on it.

 

5 hours ago, The Natural said:

I honestly spat my drink out when I read Seth Rollins' tweets:

Fuck off, Seth.

I mean, there's one example. Another example are people making jokes about Seth. Another example is claiming two tweets is a heel promo.

In what world are two tweets where you say you're one of the best wrestlers in the world or your company puts on the best wrestling in the world a heel promo? And he didn't even say something stupid. Debatable? Sure.

I'm with Morelock and BLR on this. They've nailed it so far.

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 Buyer beware on those five-year contracts in a company that already has 250 professional wrestlers under contract.

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Pro Athlete speaks in cliche

Internet: Athletes are so boring

Pro Athlete speaks plainly and how they feel

Internet: OUTRAGE! HOW DARE YOU EXPRESS AN OPINION! STICK WITH SPORTS!

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