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JUNE 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION - Thread 2

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Y'all got the mods danders up.  Tread with caution.

In the meantime, over in the Japan folder, you can discuss NJPW's clear desire to throw a title at someone as quickly as humanly possible and other BOSJ spoilers.

In the indies thread, you can discuss OWE being unable to get visas, putting their All Out appearances in danger.

In the WWE thread, you can discuss how R Truth is clearly padding his 24/7 Reign count up so he can eventually say he's a greater champion than Ric Flair.

Here, eh.  Talk about whatever.  Just do it respectfully motherfuckers.

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Happy Pride. 

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I'm all alone at work today, and have been going through the promo thread. It got me thinking back to the apex of Hulkamania and how the WWF programmed Hulk Hogan against a "monster of the week". It made me think that I can't really recall Hogan having a feud with anyone that could be considered their arch-rivals. His off/on friendship with Savage was just that. He went through Piper & Orndorff, Bundy, Andre, Boss Man, Perfect, Slaughter... maybe out of all of those guys it's Piper... but that was dormant for well over 15 years before they feuded again in WCW. Nothing like what Flair had in Dusty, Steamboat, and Sting. Three arch rivals.

Or is it Zeus?

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I would say it's Piper or Savage. Probably Piper. Was it here we had the thread about nemeses and arch-rivals? That was a good thread.

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I'd think it would be Piper, since they were the center of the expansion and Mania 1. 

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It always strikes me as how we think of Piper and Hogan as these legendary rivals, like they're Batman and the Joker, when they were only programmed against each other for such a short time.  I don't know how many house show runs they had against each other, but it looks like the only high profile program between the two was the run-up to Mania 1 (the Wrestling Classic/War to Settle the Score/Brawl to End it All) and that show itself

 

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Posted (edited)

Friends, what can you tell me about this Hansen/Gordy match? YouTube has pulled a blank, is it as hateful as it looks? 

 

Edited by CreativeControl

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20 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

 it looks like the only high profile program between the two was the run-up to Mania 1 (the Wrestling Classic/War to Settle the Score/Brawl to End it All) and that show itself

Is billing something as "Match of the Century" considered high profile? 

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10 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Is billing something as "Match of the Century" considered high profile? 

Heh.  About as much as something billed as "equal to or bigger than Wrestlemania" is.

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I appreciate Juicey Boy cutting the dreads but man, he needs like a purple mohawk now or something

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The Hogan-Piper rivalry narrative doesn't exist without the WCW feud. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The Hogan-Piper rivalry narrative doesn't exist without the WCW feud. 

I feel it's the opposite.  The WCW feud doesn't happen without the perception from 15 years before that these two were legendary, longtime rivals.  I'm really curious about how this perception came to be.  I have some ideas (Piper refusing to job caused fans to consider him a more major rival due to the outstanding and never-solved issue, Piper always booked as a key heel even if not in a program with Hogan, the two being the focal points of the WWF cartoon maybe?) but I'd love to hear some opinions.

As far as Hogan rivalries go, what about Bobby Heenan?  Hogan feuded with the Heenan family on and off from pre Mania 1 until after Mania 3.  (Excuse me for being an older dude who measures the early WWF timeline by what Mania was happening when).

Edited by Technico Support
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The Heenan Family feuded with Hogan in the AWA as well.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I feel it's the opposite.  The WCW feud doesn't happen without the perception from 15 years before that these two were legendary, longtime rivals.  I'm really curious about how this perception came to be.  I have some ideas (Piper refusing to job caused fans to consider him a more major rival due to the outstanding and never-solved issue, Piper always booked as a key heel even if not in a program with Hogan, the two being the focal points of the WWF cartoon maybe?) but I'd love to hear some opinions.

As far as Hogan rivalries go, what about Bobby Heenan?  Hogan feuded with the Heenan family on and off from pre Mania 1 until after Mania 3.  (Excuse me for being an older dude who measures the early WWF timeline by what Mania was happening when).

I wouldn't really call Piper / Hogan longtime rivals. Not when Piper was a face for so long. The only thing you'd ever hear from Piper about Hogan post WM1 was that he's the reason why Hogan doesn't have any hair (because he pulled it all out).

Edited by Wyld Samurai

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Serious question that may sound dumb: How much did the Hulk Hogans Rock 'n' Wrestling cartoon contribute to the perception of Hogan and Piper as longtime rivals? 

At the time, my only exposure to WWF was through the cartoon and wrestling magazines and I've always thought of Piper as Hogan's arch-rival.

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Should Andre be in the conversation? Beat Hogan for the belt, albeit through major shenanigans. Only guy Hogan faced twice at Wrestlemania.

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52 minutes ago, Dewar said:

The Heenan Family feuded with Hogan in the AWA as well.

I feel like Heenan was always Hogans main nemesis, the Lex Luther to Hogans Superman. 

Like in comics the better villains stuck around a bit longer.  Piper was one of those.

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Remember that in the end, Heenan was completely validated as Hogan joining the nWo proved he was right about him all along.

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Jimmy Valiant vs. Paul Jones’ Army

Eric Embry vs. Skandor Akbar’s Devastation, inc.

Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Hart’s First Family

Hulk Hogan vs. Bobby Heenan’s Heenan Family.

Standard territories-era setup

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1 minute ago, BobbyWhioux said:

Jimmy Valiant vs. Paul Jones’ Army

Eric Embry vs. Skandor Akbar’s Devastation, inc.

Jerry Lawler vs. Jimmy Hart’s First Family

Hulk Hogan vs. Bobby Heenan’s Heenan Family.

Standard territories-era setup

Michael "PS" Hayes vs The evil Fritz Von Erich & The Von Erich Boys! 😉

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3 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Michael "PS" Hayes vs The evil Fritz Von Erich & The Von Erich Boys! 😉

Did The Freebirds ever fight The Von Erich's in the Omni or somewhere on the Florida panhandle? I'm just wondering cause who would get booed/cheered in that one.

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The only place the Von Erichs were heels were in Florida, right? Dont think that overlapped with Hayes  being there, that i recall. 

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Posted (edited)

David Von Erich would have made for such a fun heel outside of Texas. I'm adamant about that ever since he did that bit with Jimmy Garvin working as his indentured servant on the Von Erich Ranch.

Edited by Wyld Samurai

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Heenan as the Hogan arch-rival ties into why the "monster of the week" concept worked there, because ultimately it was the same as the territories were set up:

You can throw any big new name up against the big star for a month or two. The champ dispatches them. If they succeed, they fall into the midcard and stick around. If not, they politely go away forever as the hero destroyed them...but ultimately, it keeps going because the arch-rival is the manager, and no matter how many monsters the champ dispatches, the manager always has another one waiting, so you never quite see that moment where the champion finally gets his hands on this asshole. 

It does have the related topic: Why don't we see more of the "If you win this match, then you/your downtrodden friend who's been kicked around and really hates this evil non-wrestler gets five minutes with the non-wrestler"  stipulation go around? 

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5 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

It does have the related topic: Why don't we see more of the "If you win this match, then you/your downtrodden friend who's been kicked around and really hates this evil non-wrestler gets five minutes with the non-wrestler"  stipulation go around? 

At least in the WWE it's because Vince hates managers and doesn't really use them...

And the only people in the WWE that would even fit the Heenan / Akbar / Jones / Hart motif are the McMahon's. 

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