UFC 238: Cejudo vs. Moraes (6/8/2019) - Chicago, IL (United Center)

[The Natural]

8 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

This is what happens when you put one of the world's best fighters against an average fighter. Should never have happened. Disgusting. Jessica's ankles were fencing, not her arms. That is some soul shaking shit.

Yep, Jessica's ankles/feet.

That was one of those KOs leaving you concerned about the recipient.

Edited June 9, 2019 by The Natural

[Jiji]

I'm so sorry

[Setsuna]

Man, the mental strength it's gotta take to be a top fighter and know your best option is to go in aggressive and exchange punches with Moraes is insane. Cejudo was getting chewed up for the first 7.5 minutes of this fight but that last half of the round he really turned it around.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Setsuna

[Setsuna]

Moraes went from looking like an absolute killer to something far less in that second round. Great performance by Cejudo.

[The Natural]

Henry Cejudo joins the club of UFC Champions holding two at the same time. Congratulations. 

[The Natural]

2 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Henry Cejudo joins the club of UFC Champions holding two at the same time. Congratulations. 

Conor McGregor, Daniel Cormier, Amanda Nunes and Henry Cejudo.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Damn, I still remember when people did nothing but complain about Henry Cejudo not making weight.

[The Natural]

Those knees by Henry in the Thai clinch!

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[The Natural]

Look at the referee's reaction to THAT KTFO.

[Elsalvajeloco]

A bunch of dudes (or the remaining 12 guys) just breathed a collective sigh of relief. We can finally put this to bed.

[The Natural]

Victory and defeat in a single photo.

[The Natural]

 

[jaedmc]

As soon as Cerrone put his hand to his nose to launch a bloody snot rocket I just yelled "Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!" 

That shit broke my heart. 

Someone needs to gif the referee after the knockout when he told Schevchenko to go to her corner. He just has this great face like he just witnessed a murder and lets out a big breath of air. I laughed pretty hard.

I then felt awful for laughing, because poor Jessica Eye still wasn't moving. That felt scary for a minute.

[The Natural]

13 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

As soon as Cerrone put his hand to his nose to launch a bloody snot rocket I just yelled "Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!" 

That shit broke my heart. 

Someone needs to gif the referee after the knockout when he told Schevchenko to go to her corner. He just has this great face like he just witnessed a murder and lets out a big breath of air. I laughed pretty hard.

I then felt awful for laughing, because poor Jessica Eye still wasn't moving. That felt scary for a minute.

No laughing here. I was worried about Jessica Eye's wellbeing. That was a bad KTFO, one of the worst I've seen in my time watching MMA and boxing. The impact, Jessica's feet and the time she was out for. The cameras were off Eye as the doctors attended to her.

Edited June 9, 2019 by The Natural

[Kuetsar]

Especially when they had the closeup shot on Valentina for two or three minutes, not show Eye at all. Her head hit the ground hard too as she landed.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Kuetsar

[The Natural]

Champ Champ.

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[J.T.]

15 hours ago, Setsuna said:

Moraes went from looking like an absolute killer to something far less in that second round. Great performance by Cejudo.

Cejudo is on some different shit right now.   He doesn't even look like the same guy that got clowned by Mighty Mouse back in the day.

And yeah, no female in the top ten of that weight class deserves to be in the same cage with Valentina.  She is a bone fide murderer.

Edited June 9, 2019 by J.T.

[supremebve]

This is going to sound hyperbolic, but I honestly think this is turning out to be an all time great year for the UFC.  There have been some great fights, and this card is probably the 2nd best card of the year after UFC 236...and I didn't even see the prelims. 

Henry Cejudo has won me over.  I thought he lost the Demetrius Johnson rematch, but since then he's smashed TJ Dillashaw and Marlon Moraes in a way that couldn't possibly be questioned.  He lost the first round pretty handily, but once he closed the distance and realized that Maraes clinch defense was to just lean into every knee with his face.  Bantamweight is quickly becoming one of the best divisions in the sport, and Cejudo just stopped the guy who I thought was the best of the bunch.

Valentina Schevchenko is going to rack up a lot of highlights, because she's by far the best fighter in the division.  She's just plain better than Joanna Jedrzejczyk, who is her only real challenge at this weight, but the rest of these women are in trouble.  Jessica Eye is average at best, but she was the most deserving of the shot, and she had nothing at all to offer Schevchenko.  Next up is probably the winner of Carmouche and Moddefari, and neither of them are in her league.  

The best thing that could have possibly happened to Donald Cerrone was for that fight to end like that.  Tony Ferguson was turning it on, and he was fading and fading fast.  That fight was about to get ugly.  Cerrone is a really good fighter, but he isn't a great fighter.  When he gets in the ring with great fighters, he often gets beat in ways that exposes his weaknesses.  Once Ferguson started putting his pressure on him, he started absorbing a lot of punishment.  

Jimmie Rivera is a really good fighter, but his window as a contender may be over.  He beat Urijah Faber and Thomas Almeida and everyone thought he was going to be a champion.  I legitimately think Faber is going to get trounced when he gets back, and Almeida is an afterthought.  I have no idea who Jimmie Rivera should fight next, because he's too good to be given a cupcake, but he's in danger of getting cut if he keeps dropping fights.  With that said, of the 15 minutes of this fight Rivera won about 12 of them.  The problem was when he was winning Peter Yan was competitive, but when Peter Yan was winning Jimmie Rivera was fighting to survive.  Yan's patience was the most impressive part of his game.  When they were in space, Rivera was able to constantly touch him, but Yan stayed in the pocket and cut the cage off until Rivera had to fight against the cage.  When Rivera's movement was hampered, Yan was able to tee off and hurt Rivera and hurt him bad. 

I would talk about the Ivanov vs. Tuivasa fight, but it's heavyweight MMA and the less I think about it the better I feel.

Are we sure Tatiana Suarez is ready for a title shot?  I keep hearing people tell me that she's going to be a champion...but she fights in the same division as Jessica Andrade and Jessica Andrade seems like she's better at everything than Tatiana Suarez.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, supremebve said:

 

Jimmie Rivera is a really good fighter, but his window as a contender may be over.  He beat Urijah Faber and Thomas Almeida and everyone thought he was going to be a champion. 

I don't think everyone thought Jimmie was going to be champion. I think he started to stand out then as just more than your run of the mill Team Tiger Schulmann product who is serviceable but probably isn't going to challenge for a title. Plus, you could have definitely called him underrated because the fact people weren't really talking about him at all. I think everyone was focused on that immediate cluster of Garbrandt, Dillashaw, and Cruz. I never saw him anyone really peg him as being a champion.

2 hours ago, supremebve said:

Are we sure Tatiana Suarez is ready for a title shot?  I keep hearing people tell me that she's going to be a champion...but she fights in the same division as Jessica Andrade and Jessica Andrade seems like she's better at everything than Tatiana Suarez.  

I think Ansaroff deserves a lot of credit. In her last few fights including this one, she has turned it up and not just been there as an opponent. I expected her to get overpowered by Claudia and she did not allow that happen at all. Same with Tatiana. Nina has been giving herself an ultimatum of either challenging for a belt or having a family. I even saw a tweet this morning surveying the fans on if she should continue fighting or I guess retire to have a family. So for the last few fights, she has been essentially fighting for a her career. She made Tatiana fight hard for every takedown. That's something that hasn't happened so far. What usually happens is Tatiana's opponents fight to no avail that first TD. Then, it is a rout from there. That has been every fight up until this one. Apparently, Tatiana came into this one with a neck injury. I give her the benefit of the doubt. I think this gives her team something to look at unlike the rest of her fights. You want to this happen BEFORE the title fight and not during the title fight. You fought someone who isn't going to fold underneath the pressure of what you bring to the table. That's what happens when you fight legit contenders. I liked the storyline coming into this fight. Usually, people avoid Tatiana. Nina didn't do that and decided to take the fight. Why? She legitimately wanted to challenge for the belt and wanted to fight the most avoided person in the division. Nina could have done what would be considered the smart thing and turned the fight down. She didn't. So we got what we got on Saturday. Nina still lost two rounds to one, but personally, you have to be impressed with her effort. 

Now where you go from there in my opinion is not to do the Monday morning armchair QB thing. Based on what Nina did against Claudia who is also a legit top strawweight, I don't see anyone who isn't Jessica (or Rose) doing what Nina did in round 3 against Tatiana. Anyone below that level is getting exactly what Tatiana put on her previous opponents.  I think when it comes to the Andrade comparison is people tried to do that exact same thing with Usman and Woodley. Conventional wisdom says Woodley is better than Usman at everything and Woodley stuffs his takedowns and eventually stops him standing. It's super easy in hindsight to say different and declare "Naw! I would have picked Kamaru to win." According to my memory at least, no one in our event thread was bold enough to make that prediction. If you were, I would be glad to see you post the quote from that thread saying as much. Anyway, I see a similar scenario here. Not that I would pick Tatiana now to beat Jessica, but the fact that someone is so far and beyond been better at one aspect of MMA than most everyone else in a particular division gives them at least a decent chance in every fight. I think Kamaru and Khabib got lucky as potent wrestlers in that 155 and 170 in the men's divisions are so diverse that you're going to face every type of fighter before you ever challenge for a title. There aren't any Leon Edwards high risk, low reward fighters at strawweight. Maybe Nina Ansaroff but that was because of what I stated above. That hasn't been her entire UFC career. Who the hell at 115 is like Edson Barboza? Strawweight is stacked right now, but female MMA still lacks diversity that you get from a freaky talent pool that pops out someone new every couple months. Tatiana doesn't have that type of opposition. So knowing that, I can't knock her completely for how she looked in round 3 of that fight. Learning on the job is going to be tough as hell when she finally meets a real obstacle. I expected that. If she isn't fighting for the belt or a real legit immediate contender, I don't expect anyone else to provide that type of resistance. So she deserves the title shot. However, just like I said going into Namajunas-Andrade in reference to Jessica, nothing can prepare you really for that type of fight. My point then was people jumped on Rose's bandwagon that you have to step back and realize Rose had not fight anyone in recent memory besides Joanna. That should have given you pause because everything in your mind is going to based on how Rose performed against Joanna. Jessica Andrade is an entirely different matchup. Rose performed admirably in that fight, but you don't planned to get drilled straight into the mat ala Chris Benoit vs. Sabu in ECW back in the day. She can train for that all day, but the fight is effectively over once that happens. It's like what Ferdie Pacheco said in the Thrilla in Manilla documentary about Ali's training in his latter years which forced Ferdie to quit as Ali's personal physician. "You don't train to get hit in the kidneys. Kidneys ain't suppose to be toughened up."

With Jessica and Tatiana, it's different in that we haven't seen Jessica get physically dominated since what? When she fought Liz Carmouche on that Fox card several years ago now? If you saw that fight and based on her UFC outlook on that fight alone, it's no way you say this lady wins a UFC title. Granted, everyone knew she was undersized and strawweight didn't exist yet. It was years ago now, but it still happened. I never see anyone bring that fight up. Any time we've seen Jessica lose in the recent past it's been fights where she got caught (Pennington and Reneau) or a fight where it's understandable she lose (Joanna). However, with the latter...that was the product of what? Looking like a destroyer at strawweight and never facing a real test in the division until she fought for the title (that remind you of anyone?). The bloodbath with Claudia was AFTER she fought for title the first time and lost to Joanna. So before we throw stones at Tatiana, we can't forget how we got here. We have to put all this into proper context. Would I be surprised if Andrade vs. Suarez was this war of attrition that Andrade ended up winning? No, not at all. Would I be surprised if Tatiana looked like Jordan Burroughs against Jessica Andrade? Nope, not one bit. The truth is the last time Jessica faced someone who could dominate her physically, she lost decisively in one sided fashion. Tatiana ain't fought anyone like Jessica Andrade. Case closed. No one should be making their predictions off Tatiana's performance against Nina Ansaroff. That doesn't make a lick of sense. Is Tatiana supremely well rounded? No, but usually if you're that good as a wrestler, you don't have to be. Khabib dropped Conor McGregor, but six months before that, he didn't look that hot against Al Iaquinta who had like 24 hours notice. Different styles force you into different situations. Hence, my whole point about talent diversity being key. I am not making the Ansaroff fight any bigger than it should be. It was a tough fight. She won. So we move on. Survive and advance, my friend.

[supremebve]

My biggest reason for thinking Jessica Andrade beats Tatiana Suarez isn't even the wrestling, it is the constant, never-ending, Terminator like pressure that she puts on her opponents.  Suarez has less of a neck injury and more of a neck condition.  Her neck has been an issue since she was in the Olympics.  As someone with a neck condition, it seems like something that can be treated, but not actually healed.  If she slows down in the third round like she did against Ansirov, Andrade will just walk her down and smash her.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

29 minutes ago, supremebve said:

My biggest reason for thinking Jessica Andrade beats Tatiana Suarez isn't even the wrestling, it is the constant, never-ending, Terminator like pressure that she puts on her opponents.  

The thing is if you're on your back, you cannot do that. Tatiana isn't above clinching against the cage and making the fight ugly and not all that entertaining. I think Jessica did well in a fight with Claudia not only because of Claudia's stamina issues, but she wasn't getting anything back in return that would cause her in turn to get tired. Claudia at her best and prior to her changing camps every other fight can be physically overwhelming but I never seen her make someone mentally give up. The thing with the Suarez-Ansaroff fight is even though Nina had success in that third round, if she hadn't fought off takedowns in the previous two rounds, she could have rallied to finish her. She didn't have the energy. If Andrade loses the first three rounds against Tatiana, I don't see her slamming her way to a win. Tatiana isn't going to go up as light as Rose did. I don't see Jessica doing the Terminator thing and especially doing it in round 4 and 5. I think Jessica would be best served not wearing herself out trying to fight those takedowns and elbowing and punching off the breaks. Another thing she doesn't have that Nina had working for her is the guard. Nina's rubber guard completely shut down Tatiana. Tatiana wore herself out trying to just getting any offense in along with trying to keep Nina down. Usually, Tatiana can pound you into mince meat from there. Look at the Esparza fight. If Jessica winds up on her back, I don't see that going well. I see her taking damage like she did in the Carmouche fight. She had nothing to stop Liz, and Liz is basically a beta version of Tatiana. I can see a scenario where Jessica desperately needs a Hail Mary in the championship rounds just because she is being overwhelmed by the wrestling acumen. You can do the Terminator thing. Fine. But against an Olympic caliber wrestler who has proven as such? No, that's not going to work unless you catch them cold with a punch or something similar early and stop them via strikes (ala Rousey-McMann, DJ-Cejudo I). You can't bet on that though.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Elsalvajeloco

[The Natural]

Edited June 12, 2019 by The Natural

[TheVileOne]

There will be no living with Henry Cejudo after this. He now has an Olympic gold medal, two UFC belts, and probably the biggest set of balls on the planet. That was an insane fight, and I had Moraes pegged to win as well. I respect Cejudo for making adjustments and not lackadaisically sticking to a game plan after he got picked apart in the first round as we see fighters often do.