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6 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

(Note: If you wonder why I focus on this and not the Cornette argument- I'm not touching that debate with a 20 foot pole.) 

Nobody was wondering.

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Or, and bear with me here, you just don't book the match so you don't have to bait and switch it?

I mean, it was crystal clear they wanted fans to believe the match was gonna happen, because they advertised it all night. And it's obvious why, they figured it was a big hook for the third hour and would help ratings.

People knew it wouldn't have a finish, so they didn't stick around. It was a shitty Bait and Switch. The fact that it was ended by The Bar only made a shitty situation even worse. Because they added something nobody cares about on top of something that sucked.

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Also, Kofi or Seth winning a match isn't a bait-and-switch, which was the original point of contention. Sorceress continues to move the goalposts in this regard. 

But Fowler is right; if you don't want either guy losing, don't book them in a title-for-title match and then just use some fuckery to get out of it. 

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Or do a DOUBLE fingerpoke of doom spot and do a double knockout.

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17 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Also, Kofi or Seth winning a match isn't a bait-and-switch, which was the original point of contention.

Since I introduced Kofi vs Seth, I’ll admit the original point: I was just being a smart ass.

As usual, I don’t know what SK is talking about. Not sure if that’s my problem or his. 

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12 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

As usual, I don’t know what SK is talking about. Not sure if that’s my problem or his. 

I think he really just wants a pony.

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6 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

I think he really just wants a pony.

I hate anyone that had a pony growing up.

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32 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Since I introduced Kofi vs Seth, I’ll admit the original point: I was just being a smart ass.

As usual, I don’t know what SK is talking about. Not sure if that’s my problem or his. 

My point of contention is that, because any reasonable fan should have known Kofi/Seth was not going to end clean, it shouldn't count.

If it does count, the reason for that is solely because they had it broken up for a tag match- but it was The Bar and not Undisputed Era.

Even though there was no hint Undisputed Era would show up. WWE didn't make any overtures Undisputed Era might show up. There was no guarantees Undisputed Era would show up in that match. Literally the only reason to say "WWE promised us that Undisputed Era will break this match up, and as such they bait-and-switched us with The Bar" was "muh FANTASY BOOKING!".

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Not one person has said UE was promised.

They spent 2.5 hours promising a match they failed to deliver. Because they wanted it to help ratings.

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54 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Not one person has said UE was promised.

They spent 2.5 hours promising a match they failed to deliver. Because they wanted it to help ratings.

But that's also my point. 

No one said UE was promised...because WWE didn't say the UE was promised. The fans decided that WWE promised the UE, and so they decided because they didn't get what they wanted it was a bait and switch.

WWE spent 2.5 hours promising a match that anyone could have seen wasn't going to end with a decisive finish, that is normal. WWE getting people angry about that finish because it didn't finish with who they wanted to see is not "bait and switch", but "you didn't get what you wanted and it's soooo unfair."

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1 minute ago, SorceressKnight said:

But that's also my point. 

No one said UE was promised...because WWE didn't say the UE was promised. The fans decided that WWE promised the UE, and so they decided because they didn't get what they wanted it was a bait and switch.

WWE spent 2.5 hours promising a match that anyone could have seen wasn't going to end with a decisive finish, that is normal. WWE getting people angry about that finish because it didn't finish with who they wanted to see is not "bait and switch", but "you didn't get what you wanted and it's soooo unfair."

You are constructing a straw man.

WWE wanted you to believe the match was happening. That was the entire point.

People were mad because it was a bait and switch with a shitty payoff. Yes, people would've forgiven a better payoff more, but it still would've been a bait and switch. Nobody thinks they were promised UE. You can keep saying that people decided they were promoted that despite not having been, but you will continue being wrong.

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1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

You are constructing a straw man.

WWE wanted you to believe the match was happening. That was the entire point.

People were mad because it was a bait and switch with a shitty payoff. Yes, people would've forgiven a better payoff more, but it still would've been a bait and switch. Nobody thinks they were promised UE. You can keep saying that people decided they were promoted that despite not having been, but you will continue being wrong.

Anyone who believes that they were mad because it was a bait and switch is the one who's wrong. Literally even the densest five year old mark could see there would not be a clean finish in that match.

People were mad because they didn't get the payoff to the bait and switch they wanted because they decided the UE was going to interfere and they didn't. If you disagree, you are wrong. I am right, I don't care if everyone in the whole world agrees with you, it will just mean that I am the only human being who is right in the whole world. 

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I hate anyone that had a pony growing up.

I had a pony, a plethora of horses, 2 mules, a herd of cattle, pigd, some sheep, a flock of chickens, a snake, and probably a dozen dogs. 

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2 hours ago, Ryan said:

Or do a DOUBLE fingerpoke of doom spot and do a double knockout.

Knowing how wrestling is now a days they'll probably have kickouts to the fingerpoke of doom. A finisher just isn't a finisher anymore.

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Imagine a Tanahashi/Okada match getting booked to do a fingerpoke of doom finish. There'd be like 5 fingerpokes, minimum.

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39 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I had a pony, a plethora of horses, 2 mules, a herd of cattle, pigd, some sheep, a flock of chickens, a snake, and probably a dozen dogs. 

That's cool. I don't actually hate you. It was a Seinfeld line from season 2 episode 2 "The Pony Remark".

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13 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

What is there to get him cancelled from? He's already on the fringes ranting into the void. There's nothing of value to take from him. 

He commentates for MLW, and Joey Ryan tagged both MLW and their network Bein Sports in his tweet, so it definitely feels like he's trying to get Cornette fired from that gig.

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Their ad-libbing with D-Von was great, as was Black walking off before he corpsed.

Everyone's personalities are there in these wwe.com exclusives, Jinder was charming for god's sake.

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5 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I had a pony, a plethora of horses, 2 mules, a herd of cattle, pigd, some sheep, a flock of chickens, a snake, and probably a dozen dogs. 

Farmers and ranchers don't count, unless they were all your pets.

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1 minute ago, Custos said:

Everyone's personalities are there in these wwe.com exclusives, Jinder was charming for god's sake.

Not all that surprising. He's been way better than people here have given him credit for all along. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Anyone who believes that they were mad because it was a bait and switch is the one who's wrong. Literally even the densest five year old mark could see there would not be a clean finish in that match.

People were mad because they didn't get the payoff to the bait and switch they wanted because they decided the UE was going to interfere and they didn't. If you disagree, you are wrong. I am right, I don't care if everyone in the whole world agrees with you, it will just mean that I am the only human being who is right in the whole world. 

If everyone in the world disagreed with you, that would include the fans whose minds you presume to know. So this isn’t a “2+2 will never equal 5” situation, and you’d absolutely be wrong. 

Thought experiment aside, it isn’t as if these presumed expectations spring from nowhere. Fans probably didn’t expect a clean finish; but they might rightly have concluded that, being denied a big match, they’d be given something of equal value in exchange. That’s just customer service 101. And if an author (or group of them) gives their audience the wrong idea, or writes a scenario for which there is no satisfying conclusion, that’s their fault. And if the argument is that the fans ought to expect dissatisfaction, then perhaps that explains the exodus. 

(I feel like some version of this argument comes up every month, though, and I should know better than to expect it to go anywhere. Still, blaming and audience for bad writing will never make sense.)

Edited by Beech27
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I just want to laugh about Cornette saying the Young Bucks aren't physically imposing.  For one, both guys have gotten bigger in the past few years.  Two, Cornette spent years managing Bobby Eaton, a very average looking dude with a blond mullet, beer belly, and spaghetti arms. 

But keep on working your marks Jim.  Even Meltzer low key called him out for it.

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27 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I just want to laugh about Cornette saying the Young Bucks aren't physically imposing.  For one, both guys have gotten bigger in the past few years.  Two, Cornette spent years managing Bobby Eaton, a very average looking dude with a blond mullet, beer belly, and spaghetti arms. 

But keep on working your marks Jim.  Even Meltzer low key called him out for it.

He also whines about comedy wrestlers, but he booked himself in his own promotion to wrestle a dude dressed like a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.

I know most of Cornette's "angry old man who hates modern wrestling" schtick is a gimmick to keep himself relevant, but how great would it be if he was actually enthusiastic about the same stuff he rails against? Missy Hyatt watches a ton of current wrestling, and tweets about the stuff she likes. Cornette doing the same would be great.

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