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SDL is Captain Planet & The Planeteer - 5/7/2019


Dolfan in NYC

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4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Though I don’t know if Jason Jordan will ever return from injury. Whoever it is, I hope it’s not the Hardy’s who don’t need the win against this new team.


All signs point to Jordan being done, and Jeff will be out injured for some time.

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Meltzer had this in the last WON (and there was much more to it that I will put in spoilers at the end of this post for the full context. Consider this my click bait post)

So it is looking like - at the moment - that the women are taking a larger share of the blame and hence what we saw (or didn't see) this week on RAW and SDL

Anyway - here is the rest of the ratings decline in regards to the women

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In addition, while WrestleMania would have sold out no matter what the main event was, as far as the live event went, it was the single most in-demand event on the secondary market in pro wrestling history. So while ratings were down leading to Mania, as was live attendance and the network numbers fell year-to-year for the first time in history, the secondary market demand, which is based on how many people wanted to see the show, indicates the women’s main event, or the show itself, was actually a huge success as far as not just people buying tickets before the card came out, but even more after the card came out. And that is about the main events, and the most promoted was the women.

However, Raw episodes where women have headlined this year have seen the audience decline at a faster rate than men, with men averaging a 12 percent first-to-third drop while women average a 20 percent drop. Every drop of less than ten percent has been with a male main event. In fact, of the five shows who held their audience the best, four have been shows headlined by Drew McIntyre and three by Rollins.

Of the five biggest drops, three were with women, all of which involved Rousey. There are mitigating reasons for this.

Of the men’s shows that lowered the average, one was a rare Cena main event match; one was a Rollins-Lesnar confrontation, again rare since Lesnar is a special character, one was McIntyre vs. Dean Ambrose falls count anywhere which was promoted as one of Ambrose’s last television match, one was McIntyre vs. Rollins and one was Reigns & Rollins and the promise of a major mystery partner (Styles) vs. Corbin & Lashley & McIntyre.

The main events that did the worst, mostly women, were more that they put women like Bayley, Ruby Riott and others in main events when all year they were presented as prelim. It would be like if they put McIntyre vs. Bobby Roode or Jinder Mahal in the main event position, the numbers would also plummet for the third hour.

The worst stuff was Rollins vs. Ambrose falls count anywhere, which had to do with the Ambrose heel turn being a disaster, Bayley & Sasha Banks vs. Rousey & Natalya which featured three women who weren’t seriously pushed all year and then were put in a main event spot, Rousey vs. Riott which was a long match (and one changed at the last minute from a short Rousey vs. Alexa Bliss match because there were issues and they needed a long match from Rousey, itself a bad idea for television, and felt Riott would be a good opponent, which she was, but she was never presented nor did people see her as a main eventer), and a Styles vs. Corbin match for a title shot. But there was a go-home segment with Rousey, Lynch and Charlotte Flair that didn’t do well, and the other worst in holding the audience was the Rollins vs. Kofi Kingston unification match.

Over the last several months, the drops for shows headlined by Rousey, Flair and Lynch in some combination were equal to the men, but if Bayley and Banks were in the final segment, it would go way down. Again, that’s not men vs. women as much as Bayley and Banks haven’t been presented as main eventers, so if you put them in a main event, they are going to end up with lots of people tuning out. It would be like right now, without a prolonged push, having Chad Gable or Bobby Roode or the Revival go on last. They wouldn’t do it, and if they were promoted in the main spot, the third hour would die. And that’s not that they don’t deserve it or aren’t good enough, but in most cases, you are viewed to a degree how you are presented, particularly when it comes to final segment positioning.

 

To be fair Dave made sure to point out how it wasn't necessarily the fact that women were main eventing but more how things were presented.  This line stuck out to me:

The main events that did the worst, mostly women, were more that they put women like Bayley, Ruby Riott and others in main events when all year they were presented as prelim. It would be like if they put McIntyre vs. Bobby Roode or Jinder Mahal in the main event position, the numbers would also plummet for the third hour.

So if you had something like Charlotte/Sasha FCA for the title I would think that ratings would hold up nicely.  But if they feel it's the women when in reality it's the booking then no wonder Sasha is trying to get the hell out of there.  I can imagine a lot of them anywhere else and being given a chance to do worlds better then they are now.  But unless things at the top change that's not happening.

As far as Smackdown I liked what I saw.  My cable/internet were crapping out on me so it cut off the tag title match and some other stuff that wasn't essential for me to see anyway.  I'm hoping to catch the tag title match on a replay somewhere but am happy to see Bryan/Rowan with it.

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41 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

And I guess this happened during the break before the Ali/Andrade match

I actually really love these. They’ve been something I’ve wanted them to go back to for years, and that’s storytelling promos. It’s a shame they have trouble fitting them into the main show. Still it beats a soapy acting 101 backstage segment.

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4 hours ago, Firebreaker Chip said:

If the final part of Bryan's career is him vengefully achieving a "hippie grand slam" of holding a sustainable, organic version of every belt in the company I am basically OK with that

As am I. 

Put the plates on a bump bag/fanny pack!

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2 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

So if you had something like Charlotte/Sasha FCA for the title I would think that ratings would hold up nicely.

Even Dave directly contradicts this - the Boss N Hug connection match is listed as one of the ratings losers and Sasha is one of the people he said was presented as a preliminary wrestler for most of the year. Sasha being loved by the IWC crowd does not make her a main eventer or a ratings draw.

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18 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Even Dave directly contradicts this - the Boss N Hug connection match is listed as one of the ratings losers and Sasha is one of the people he said was presented as a preliminary wrestler for most of the year. Sasha being loved by the IWC crowd does not make her a main eventer or a ratings draw.

Not going to single out one particular person since I'd rather not have a 10-page thread about this.  But it's hard to overcome terrible booking and if people don't see somebody as the draw they once were then I wonder how much can be truly blamed on the person.  And it doesn't matter if it's Sasha, Bayley or anybody else.  Heck, I sadly wouldn't be surprised if by later this year they find a way to fuck up Becky after the rise she's had recently.

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They already have.  The edge that made her so popular for the couple months before WrestleMania is gone and she's goofy, smiling, punning Becky again.

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3 minutes ago, CSC said:

They already have.  The edge that made her so popular for the couple months before WrestleMania is gone and she's goofy, smiling, punning Becky again.

I was for some reason hesitant on pointing that out but you're right.  I'm hoping after MITB assuming she has whichever title(s) she'll heat back up with a better opponent.

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14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'd buy Impact+.   Shit,  I might buy Impact+ anyway.  I've been hearing lots of good things and I like they are doing all these shows with smaller indies

Yeah I’ve been thinking about it as well. I was trying to find out what the ppv deal is if you are a subscriber and didn’t see it. I know they say if you purchase a ppv you get three months free, so you could just get plus by buying the ppvs. But don’t they want people to subscribe first, and as a way to entice it have a deal on ppvs?

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11 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

But it's hard to overcome terrible booking and if people don't see somebody as the draw they once were then I wonder how much can be truly blamed on the person.

I wasn't "blaming" Sasha for anything, and whether or not she's booked well isn't the conversation we're having. It's not a matter of my perception of her. We're discussing hard data and numbers. You were suggesting that a Sasha main event would deliver ratings when Sasha has not been shown to positively affect the ratings.

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18 minutes ago, CSC said:

They already have.  The edge that made her so popular for the couple months before WrestleMania is gone and she's goofy, smiling, punning Becky again.

I pointed this out a week or two ago. Can you imagine how Stone Cold, the Rock, HHH in DX just after WM 14, or any other faces who got over for having an edge being forced to smile and act without any sort of edge?

I swear that the first time I noticed this was with Smilin' Brock Lesnar. Once Lesnar turned face, so this either before the feud with Big Show or just after (I can't remember), he would come out smiling and it looked like the worst attempt ever at making a monster, a real killer, into a white meat babyface. 

 

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8 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I wasn't "blaming" Sasha for anything, and whether or not she's booked well isn't the conversation we're having. It's not a matter of my perception of her. We're discussing hard data and numbers. You were suggesting that a Sasha main event would deliver ratings when Sasha has not been shown to positively affect the ratings.

And that's why I was pointing to the past when she was going for the women's title against Charlotte.  But regardless I misread what you were initially getting at so it's probably best I just hold off on this.

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1 hour ago, CSC said:

They already have.  The edge that made her so popular for the couple months before WrestleMania is gone and she's goofy, smiling, punning Becky again.

Becky is constantly talking shit to Lacey Evans and trying to beat Evans ass like she was with Charlotte. How is that the old smiling, punning version?

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3 hours ago, Craig H said:

I pointed this out a week or two ago. Can you imagine how Stone Cold, the Rock, HHH in DX just after WM 14, or any other faces who got over for having an edge being forced to smile and act without any sort of edge?

I swear that the first time I noticed this was with Smilin' Brock Lesnar. Once Lesnar turned face, so this either before the feud with Big Show or just after (I can't remember), he would come out smiling and it looked like the worst attempt ever at making a monster, a real killer, into a white meat babyface. 

 

Daniel Bryan’s feud with Kane was another post-WM. dud for a newly established tippy toppy guy. Sure injuries derailed the whole thing and he would have been fed to Lesnar at Summerslam anyway but that was bad.

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1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

Daniel Bryan’s feud with Kane was another post-WM. dud for a newly established tippy toppy guy. Sure injuries derailed the whole thing and he would have been fed to Lesnar at Summerslam anyway but that was bad.

How can we forget?

Before we had Baron “Momentum Killer” Corbin, we had past his prime Kane.

Does Vince not realize how unwatchable some of these acts are?

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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7 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Even Dave directly contradicts this - the Boss N Hug connection match is listed as one of the ratings losers and Sasha is one of the people he said was presented as a preliminary wrestler for most of the year. Sasha being loved by the IWC crowd does not make her a main eventer or a ratings draw.

Except that Sasha Banks segments including her FCA match with Charlotte did fine so again this is just you hating sasha for no reason.  Funny how you failed to mention that the Alexa match one on one was also very poor ratings wise while the Sasha match was a tag with 3 other women.

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7 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

And that's why I was pointing to the past when she was going for the women's title against Charlotte.  

I don't think litigating ratings blips from three years ago is the best way to make a case for the star power of anyone in this current environment. 

Of course they're still using a comatose 1999 TV format, so who knows what the tea leaves are saying. 

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6 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

So weird that WWE was getting $5.5 million a year from USA when ratings were sky high. 

That was part of the chat this week when Jericho had Dave on his pod talking about Vince buying wcw. 

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9 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

That was part of the chat this week when Jericho had Dave on his pod talking about Vince buying wcw. 

Yeah heard it. That’s where I heard that number. USA used to get WWE for a bargain price 

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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Except that Sasha Banks segments including her FCA match with Charlotte did fine so again this is just you hating sasha for no reason.  Funny how you failed to mention that the Alexa match one on one was also very poor ratings wise while the Sasha match was a tag with 3 other women.

If this is from that Observer article above, that was a Ruby Riott/Ronda match that was originally supposed to be Alexa but got changed. Just keeping Alexa from taking any heat here

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7 hours ago, Eivion said:

Becky is constantly talking shit to Lacey Evans and trying to beat Evans ass like she was with Charlotte. How is that the old smiling, punning version?

Some of her promos leaned a bit towards a smiley persona (thanking 'the lads' in the crowd, smiling at fans chanting her name, etc: ), but I think really what we're seeing with Becky now is among other things a product of the problem of an 'underdog' character being given everything. It wouldn't have been as big of an issue if she just won the Raw title at Mania, but Vince wanted her to have both (maybe for those '2 Belt' t-shirt sales) and it now means there isn't really anything she can strive for and you can never argue she's overlooked again, she's been given more than any woman on the roster ever has. And as she targeted a fickle market in smarks (given how effectively she worked them into believing she was 'held back' and that Vince preferred blondes when she's had the most protected booking in the company for nearly a year now), its an act that while very successful, wasn't necessarily conceived for the long term.

Edited by RIShane
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39 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

If this is from that Observer article above, that was a Ruby Riott/Ronda match that was originally supposed to be Alexa but got changed. Just keeping Alexa from taking any heat here

I don't know what you are getting at the main point here is that the Sasha and Charlotte main event did very well ratings wise showing that there is little evidence to suggest she has ever been part of the problem. 

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Yeah heard it. That’s where I heard that number. USA used to get WWE for a bargain price 

The crazy live sports tv money only started about 15 years ago. That’s why pro athletes make so much more money than they did a generation ago. The tv money is crazy. 

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