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2 hours ago, AxB said:

So that's why he pushed Luger so hard.

and Kevin Nash

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16 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

One more day. Don't let it end on THAT note

I know the best note to end a thread on...

Spoiler

The Aristocrats Joke

 

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2 hours ago, caley said:

Of course some of that seems to be Jericho BS too because in his interview with Bubba he basically conceded that he was in talks to come back to WWE but was upset about their offer and that he wouldn’t be main eventing.  So a lot of his AEW interest is ego-driven and financial as it is “creative freedom “.

To be fair, I think that's what he said was the main reason he wanted to stick around NJPW.

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After I listened to Moxleys podcast, I thought what if Bryan did show up at All in instead of Resigning with WWE. If AEW was a thing it probably would have happened more likely. The only downside I think is most people feel safer with him under WWE doctor's access. I don't think fans would feel safe with him not presumably under the availability of WWEs wellness program. I wonder if Bryan is thinking he made the wrong move although he is positioned way better than Ambrose was. The both have spouses employed with WWE they both aren't pressed for money alot of similarities between them 

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4 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

This is pretty clearly a major issue. Take Baron Corbin. The guy’s a good talker, a natural heel, as shown during his Talking Smack appearances. However, he sucks at delivering the shitty scripts they give him and it’s killing him. 

One thing I realized earlier today is that we were all thinking that Dean Ambrose should have been the second coming of Austin, when Vince saw him more like the Rock: someone able to do/say goofy shit and remain an over badass.

Imagine looking at anyone and thinking they'd be able to do/say goofy shit and stay over like The Rock.  The Rock is the most unique talent in the history of the wrestling business.  He left and became the highest grossing movie star in the world.  They shouldn't expect that from anybody.

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12 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Imagine looking at anyone and thinking they'd be able to do/say goofy shit and stay over like The Rock.  The Rock is the most unique talent in the history of the wrestling business.  He left and became the highest grossing movie star in the world.  They shouldn't expect that from anybody.

One of the reasons Luger flopped in WWF is because Vince wanted him to be the next Hogan, It never works when you try to force someone to be the next So and So, even if than talent is really good in their own right. Their will never be another Rock or Austin but they always say they are looking for the next Austin or Rock.

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5 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

One of the reasons Luger flopped in WWF is because Vince wanted him to be the next Hogan, It never works when you try to force someone to be the next So and So, even if than talent is really good in their own right. Their will never be another Rock or Austin but they always say they are looking for the next Austin or Rock.

There will be 10 Steve Austins before there is another Rock.  Steve Austin was a great professional wrestler who was the exact right guy at the exact right time...that has happened many times before and will happen many times again.  The Rock is a once in a lifetime talent who was born into a wrestling family, otherwise, he would have done something else.  No one with that level of talent had ever gone into wrestling and most likely won't any time soon.  

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, supremebve said:

There will be 10 Steve Austins before there is another Rock.  Steve Austin was a great professional wrestler who was the exact right guy at the exact right time...that has happened many times before and will happen many times again.  The Rock is a once in a lifetime talent who was born into a wrestling family, otherwise, he would have done something else.  No one with that level of talent had ever gone into wrestling and most likely won't any time soon.  

I don't disagree with you, but the funny thing is: Austin was unquestionably the bigger star in wrestling. I mean, Rock was huge, but even when they turned Austin heel the audience still chose him over Rocky.

Edited by Brian Fowler
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12 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Cornette told the story this week about the creation of Fake Diesel and Fake Razor. 

In short, Vince came up with the idea of a whim and then everyone had to try and figure out the how to make it passable. This included Jim having to go to the WWF studios where the ring was set up and “teach” Jacobs and Bogner how to work like Hall and Nash. 

And got Hall and Nash a bumper pay rise in WCW as a result

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, CreativeControl said:

And got Hall and Nash a bumper pay rise in WCW as a result

Bischoff, btw, strongly denies this. And that they had favored nations clauses in 96. And that he offered Bret a contract that year.

And....

Edited by Brian Fowler
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Most of the problem that seems to come from the claims of all the people who loved wrestling and saw WWE suck their soul out is that...ultimately, no one: Wrestlers, fans, everyone...wants to admit that WWE is a television show, not a wrestling promotion.

There's probably a good reason for that- once you realize WWE is a television show, it can become incredibly depressing to realize.

If there's a wrestling promotion, then it goes with the same benefits in the wrestling business anyone on the indy scene can build around: "I'm going to use my natural talent to the fullest. I'm going to work harder than anyone else in training, I'm going to try to put on the best match on the card every night, and because I do all of those things, I'm going to rise to the top of my profession because I EARNED the right to be at the top of my profession."

When the top of your profession is WWE, that'd mean "I get to hold the big title in WWE", in theory.

In practice- when you remember WWE is a television show, it becomes more disheartening to realize it. WWE is more lucky than most television shows: The amount of shows where someone who was an extra on the show managed to rise the ranks slowly but surely to become a major recurring/supporting character on that same show are very few and far between. It's even fewer and far between to see a show that managed to take a popular recurring/supporting character, rebuild the show around them to make them a main character, and not get cancelled in the process. WWE is at least able to take a bit character and make them a regular, or a popular midcarder and make them a star, relatively randomly.

Even with those successes, ultimately there is usually that one point in time where the serious wrestlers eventually learn the harsh truth: You can be the best wrestler in the company. You can be the hardest worker in the company. Sometimes, you can even be the most popular worker in the company. But at the end of the day...it's a television show, and no matter how hard you work or how badly you want it, some people just don't GET to be the star.

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I'd just like you all to know that I was recently watching a Hansen v Kawada match on youtube and my missus walked in at the moment Stan performed a spiteful powerslam followed by a vicious boot to the back and she uttered the immortal words: "Wow, is this real?"

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2 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

If there's a wrestling promotion, then it goes with the same benefits in the wrestling business anyone on the indy scene can build around: "I'm going to use my natural talent to the fullest. I'm going to work harder than anyone else in training, I'm going to try to put on the best match on the card every night, and because I do all of those things, I'm going to rise to the top of my profession because I EARNED the right to be at the top of my profession."

When the top of your profession is WWE, that'd mean "I get to hold the big title in WWE", in theory.

Even with those successes, ultimately there is usually that one point in time where the serious wrestlers eventually learn the harsh truth: You can be the best wrestler in the company. You can be the hardest worker in the company. Sometimes, you can even be the most popular worker in the company. But at the end of the day...it's a television show, and no matter how hard you work or how badly you want it, some people just don't GET to be the star.

I agree. That's why I changed my tune on how the WWE performance centre makes indie Wrestlers worse at wrestling. It doesn't. It might open their eyes to different ways of working, it might encourage them to adjust to a style that allows them to work 5 times a week instead of 2 or 3. But it doesn't make them worse at wrestling, it just teaches them how to choreograph spots for TV. But the difference is, if an indie Wrestler on a big indie show busts their ass to have a great match, people come out talking about the match, indie fans who weren't there might go out of their way to see it, and the guy can get more bookings off the back of it, sell more t-shirts off the back of it. His career gets better because he had a good match. On the WWE main roster, if a WWE superstar busts their ass to have a good match, the fans might like it, but it doesn't affect their career. Match quality doesn't move them up or down the card, doesn't get them booked more or less. So why try? Hit your spots and go home.

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3 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Even with those successes, ultimately there is usually that one point in time where the serious wrestlers eventually learn the harsh truth: You can be the best wrestler in the company. You can be the hardest worker in the company. Sometimes, you can even be the most popular worker in the company. But at the end of the day...it's a television show, and no matter how hard you work or how badly you want it, some people just don't GET to be the star.

Funny thing about the Moxley interview though. He never once complained about his spot, his push or his money or winning a belt or his wresltemania placement or any of that. He basically said "I wanted to make the company more money by being entertaining but they wouldn't let me, err, actively got in my way of doing that".

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"WWE is a TV show/entertainment property, not a wrestling promotion" has been the company line for decades, and celebrated fan canon since that famous phone call. The problem isn't that they make TV; the problem is that they make bad TV.

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When's the last time the monthly omnibus thread got anywhere near 72 pages?

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The issues with WWE and all of wrestling has not been the matches, It is that every promotion sucks at every other aspect. I have watched less wrestling this year than I have in a decade. Every month I dip my toe into the pool and it reminds me why I left. I watched the AEW preshow and that battle royal is one of the worst things I have ever seen. Then that promo with the librarians made me tap. I was getting WCW 2000 flashbacks. I was told Cody and Dustin had a great match. I hope these guys get their shit together before they have national TV and don't book every indy freak show they know. 

I went to my local indy and I hate to say how bad the show was. I took my nephew to see the tag team gauntlet where we wanted to the End. They worked the last AJPW tour carrying the New South tag belts. The show opens and the money mark comes out portraying the evil owner. Saying The End are not going to be there and  did not offer a refund or an explanation. They did a battle royal for one belt. Then later in the show they do this angle where Baron Black's girlfriend got beat up very violently. I am not opposed to this sort of thing if it gets a heel over, like the Dudleys retiring Beulah. But this felt desperate. 

Also the lights were off during intermission and was miserable for everyone.

Why does an indy need an evil owner? This has been done to death for twenty years and it got over once. Lets be honest, Steve Austin without Vince is still really over and had a supply of heels. Vince without Austin is worthless.

To end on a positive note, I like MLW a lot, they have great production that looks unique but keeps a sports presentation. I have not seen any god awful or even plain awful shit. But hell even they did an evil owner. Just make it stop. 

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4 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Most of the problem that seems to come from the claims of all the people who loved wrestling and saw WWE suck their soul out is that...ultimately, no one: Wrestlers, fans, everyone...wants to admit that WWE is a television show, not a wrestling promotion.

There's probably a good reason for that- once you realize WWE is a television show, it can become incredibly depressing to realize.

If there's a wrestling promotion, then it goes with the same benefits in the wrestling business anyone on the indy scene can build around: "I'm going to use my natural talent to the fullest. I'm going to work harder than anyone else in training, I'm going to try to put on the best match on the card every night, and because I do all of those things, I'm going to rise to the top of my profession because I EARNED the right to be at the top of my profession."

When the top of your profession is WWE, that'd mean "I get to hold the big title in WWE", in theory.

In practice- when you remember WWE is a television show, it becomes more disheartening to realize it. WWE is more lucky than most television shows: The amount of shows where someone who was an extra on the show managed to rise the ranks slowly but surely to become a major recurring/supporting character on that same show are very few and far between. It's even fewer and far between to see a show that managed to take a popular recurring/supporting character, rebuild the show around them to make them a main character, and not get cancelled in the process. WWE is at least able to take a bit character and make them a regular, or a popular midcarder and make them a star, relatively randomly.

Even with those successes, ultimately there is usually that one point in time where the serious wrestlers eventually learn the harsh truth: You can be the best wrestler in the company. You can be the hardest worker in the company. Sometimes, you can even be the most popular worker in the company. But at the end of the day...it's a television show, and no matter how hard you work or how badly you want it, some people just don't GET to be the star.

The actual analogy that you are trying for is Little House on the Prairie. You can be the best worker of your generation and it doesn't mean that you get to be Charles Ingalls, you (at best) get to be Nels Oleson. There! Thirty years of listening to that horrible show while Kathy watches it over and over has finally paid off.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Victator said:

I watched the AEW preshow and that battle royal is one of the worst things I have ever seen. Then that promo with the librarians made me tap. I was getting WCW 2000 flashbacks. I was told Cody and Dustin had a great match. I hope these guys get their shit together before they have national TV and don't book every indy freak show they know. 

It kind of felt like three different shows stitched together:

The pre-show with the circus of a battle royale and the freaks and geeks and iffy skits

The first half of the PPV with occasional really hot moments (reveal of Awesome Kong for example) punctuating matches with a lot of people doing a lot of spots and the commentary team somewhat all over the place (held together valiantly by Excalibur).

Then the second half with three classic bouts, each very different from the other and each excellent in their own way. And exiting on a massive shock and hook of the Moxley reveal.

I personally feel like that second half was worth the price of admission and the Cody/Dustin match is really worth seeking out.    

Edit to add: and no evil owner! (Well, Brandi maybe had some questionable motivations but I don't think that counts)

Edited by Custos
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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Victator said:

The issues with WWE and all of wrestling has not been the matches, It is that every promotion sucks at every other aspect. I have watched less wrestling this year than I have in a decade. Every month I dip my toe into the pool and it reminds me why I left. I watched the AEW preshow and that battle royal is one of the worst things I have ever seen. Then that promo with the librarians made me tap. I was getting WCW 2000 flashbacks. I was told Cody and Dustin had a great match. I hope these guys get their shit together before they have national TV and don't book every indy freak show they know. 

I liked the preshow but see why you wouldn't like that.  I know it's a paid show but if you happen to catch the main show somehow it might be worthwhile.  Cody/Dustin stole the show and you also had a freaking great joshi 6-woman tag.

And that local indy sounds awful but if it helps I feel your pain.  In the past I would go to this one that was awful and my friends and I basically did our best Statler and Waldorf impression (not loud enough to annoy anybody, just general talk to amuse ourselves)  They apparently got a tad better but I haven't had the time to check them out.

EDIT:  Damn, got ninja'd by Custos.  But definitely agree with his points.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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98,000 buys for All Elite between PPV and Streaming last weekend.

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Not sure that needed to be posted three times over two threads

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Quote

ESPN’s 30 for 30 on Ric Flair featured many legends talking about his life, but “The Nature Boy” has a bone to pick with something Shawn Michaels specifically said.

As we previously reported, Flair posted a video on Thursday in which he gives an update on his health while ranting about a variety of topics. He also said one person wasn’t there for him recently and he planned to address this in a follow-up video.

In the second video posted early Friday morning, Flair begins by saying that while in a coma for 12 days he actually spoke with God and begged for his mercy.

Ric goes on to thank Jim Ross for comments he made in the 30 for 30 special … but his feelings towards comments made by HBK are very different.

“Shawn Michaels, I’m sorry but you’re not in a position to judge me,” he sternly stated. “I’ll never know who Richard Fliehr is? Really?” He then explains how he does know himself.

For those who don’t recall, Shawn Michaels gave his take on Flair in the ESPN special and said “Ric doesn’t love Richard Fliehr.” Adding, “I don’t know that he’s ever taken the time to get to know him [Richard Fliehr] or to find out who in the world he is.”

“C’mon man, let’s get serious,” Ric continued in the video. “You’ve opened the door so I’m giving it back to ya. Who are you to judge me?! I mean are you kidding me?! You IDOLIZED me and then all of a sudden contempt. For what?! For what you grew up loving? What inspired you to be who you are. I don’t think so, man!”

The 70-year-old then re-iterated that he doesn’t plan to get old and loves being young. “You can’t stop me now, baby … I got my wheels on the ground,” he added before signing off. 

http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/ric-flair-shawn-michaels-pissed-video/#.XPE9IBZKhpg

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Posted (edited)

LOLLLL

Flair goes off on a guy who had the temerity to insinuate that he's lost himself in his wrestling persona...then finishes with:

Quote

The 70-year-old then re-iterated that he doesn’t plan to get old and loves being young. “You can’t stop me now, baby … I got my wheels on the ground,” he added before signing off. 

What a sad, thin-skinned, delusional goof. 

This is like when Rick James said "what am I gonna do, just jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch?  I got a little more sense than that....... "

"....................Yeah I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch."

Edited by Technico Support
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