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That was the one thing that frustrated me with the Moxley interview.

He tried to not blame the writers and did admit at one point that it was unfair he was taking it out on them but he also acted like THEY SHOULD WRITE BETTER STUFF!!! when it is fairly obvious that the writers are writing for an audience of one - Vince. And they have learned the type of batshit crazy things that appeal to Vince and you have to assume that they are trying to get their stuff used so they feel like they are contributing.

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He was kind of being a huge dick to the guy he was taking it out on though, so I felt the apology was pretty warranted in that case.  That job fucking SUCKS.  Having wrestlers bitch you out on top of it makes a shitty job even worse.

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Cornette told the story this week about the creation of Fake Diesel and Fake Razor. 

In short, Vince came up with the idea of a whim and then everyone had to try and figure out the how to make it passable. This included Jim having to go to the WWF studios where the ring was set up and “teach” Jacobs and Bogner how to work like Hall and Nash. 

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Posted (edited)

Whoever they hire to write is definitely trying to justify their checks with those overwritten promos that don't sound anything like how people actually talk. 

Everything they say in that company needs to be edited for overwriting. It's not a title shot, it's a title opportunity. It's not the fans, it's the WWE Universe. Who the fuck talks like that?

Holy shit, I remember heel Seth Rollins coming out and sounding like he was thumbing through a fucking thesaurus when, "I'm the greatest wrestler alive, no one can beat me" would have sufficed. Twenty minutes of thesauraus-talk instead of thirty seconds of "I'm the greatest, I'll beat anyone's ass."

I miss those 30-second inset promos or the fifteen-second spots at the beginning of a SNME because to me, those were really quite indicative of great talkers in their own way. If you can get across your character, your motives, and what you plan to do next in thirty seconds, you're good at a very important part of pro wrestling. Now, unless they've brought them back, you never see those promos because Vince has to justify hiring TV writers and those writers have to justify their jobs and we would get these long, droning promos that sound like a computer AI trying to figure out human speech. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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6 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 It does mean that he's not a wrestling fan.  He watches wrestling because it is his business to watch wrestling.  He doesn't watch wrestling because he likes to watch wrestling.  

There are a number of wrestlers who get caught up in the grind and don't watch anything that's not the show they're on. Am I too assume none of them are wrestling fans either?

I find this to be strange gate keeping. Especially given the point @Brian Fowler just made. 

Told you I had an awesome semantic argument in me! 

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"WWE should hire and feature a talented, athletic mercenary who doesn't care about potentially self-indulgent artistic notions" isn't exactly a hypothetical.

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Um I just wanna say that the reveal of Nick Mondo making that Twitter Video was really cool. I like the Idea of Moxley and Mondo as friends. 

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4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

A lot of people over the years have said Vince actually loves good wrestling, he just doesn't believe it sells.

That may be true, but that is still different than what any of the disgruntled employees want from their careers.  

 

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Clearly the solution is to hire wrestlers who also dislike wrestling.

The real issue is that there is no competition.  There are people who are perfectly fine working for Vince, and I don't hold that against them...but the people who are frustrated in that system have had nowhere else to go.  It has been a choice between making a decent living or doing a job you enjoy.

 
 
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3 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

There are a number of wrestlers who get caught up in the grind and don't watch anything that's not the show they're on. Am I too assume none of them are wrestling fans either?

Kind of.  When I say fan, I mean people who watch wrestling for enjoyment...as a habit.  For instance, I haven't watched Raw or Smackdown regularly in over 10 years, but I don't think there is a month of my life where I haven't watched a wrestling match.  It is a part of my life that isn't going away.  I'm a wrestling fan.  Jon Moxley is a fan.  He knows what he's doing isn't great wrestling, and that is what he grew up wanting to do.  

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1 minute ago, supremebve said:

Kind of.  When I say fan, I mean people who watch wrestling for enjoyment...as a habit.

I knew we were having a semantic argument!

Yeah, our definitions just aren't aligned here. Fair enough. 

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5 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Lies!

Edit: I wish Steve brought that kind of personality into a sneaky heel manager on TV.  

Oh God I miss the cougarlife.com band so much. I think it must have been on reruns of CSI Miami or something but I sang this song ten times a day for awhile:

 

Please note that not a single "cougar" in this video looks to be older than about 23.

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2 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

It's not like the concept of hating what you love when you start doing it professionally is unique to the wrestling industry. I know plenty of people who have started their own business or managed to get a job involving something they're passionate about only to end up so burnt out and tired of it just due to the nature of the industry and associated pressures.

I just mentioned my own personal experience dealing with it a few pages back.

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1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Clearly the solution is to hire wrestlers who also dislike wrestling.

So that's why he pushed Luger so hard.

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Just remembered something when thinking about the Moxley interview...

 

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2 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I think one of the things worth thinking about is Jericho's bit about "I was never going to work anywhere else again. But I couldn't pass on the opportunity to work Omega." Okay, that's cool, but then when he got that creative freedom, he suddenly realized how much working for Vince sucked. He was allowed to just create, unfiltered..

Of course some of that seems to be Jericho BS too because in his interview with Bubba he basically conceded that he was in talks to come back to WWE but was upset about their offer and that he wouldn’t be main eventing.  So a lot of his AEW interest is ego-driven and financial as it is “creative freedom “.

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Fresh!

 

How DARE Heyman and Brock look like they are having fun on Raw.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Fresh!

 

This continues to justify Moxley’s interview. None of this makes any fucking sense in continuity, and they are making Brock look like a face in the process.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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2 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I think there are two huge problems with the scripted promos: the scripts suck, and the wrestlers aren't trained actors. Actors put creativity and art into delivering lines someone else wrote. When they have good material to work with, it's creatively and artistically satisfying. When you aren't trained and skilled in that art, and the material sucks? Of course you'll feel creatively unfulfilled. Especially if you know how to do a more traditional wrestling promo.

This is pretty clearly a major issue. Take Baron Corbin. The guy’s a good talker, a natural heel, as shown during his Talking Smack appearances. However, he sucks at delivering the shitty scripts they give him and it’s killing him. 

One thing I realized earlier today is that we were all thinking that Dean Ambrose should have been the second coming of Austin, when Vince saw him more like the Rock: someone able to do/say goofy shit and remain an over badass.

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9 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

One thing I realized earlier today is that we were all thinking that Dean Ambrose should have been the second coming of Austin, when Vince saw him more like the Rock: someone able to do/say goofy shit and remain an over badass.

I always saw Ambrose as more of a Foley/Piper combo. 

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1 minute ago, Eivion said:

I always saw Ambrose as more of a Foley/Piper combo. 

Surely Moxley's first post-WWE vignette suggests the same.

Spoiler

piper-alcatraz.jpg

 

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Apologies if this has been discussed but has anyone watched The Wrestlers series on Viceland? Worth a watch. I'm hearing very little chatter about it. 

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13 minutes ago, Hagan said:

Apologies if this has been discussed but has anyone watched The Wrestlers series on Viceland? Worth a watch. I'm hearing very little chatter about it. 

People have discussed it in the Viceland thread. 

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It seems to me that in some ways Vince was ruined creatively by Rock and Austin. Garbage lines, dumb storylines, props, whatever it was, those dudes got it over and the crowd kept eating it up in record numbers. It turns out that it's really a rare thing that two generational stars appear at the same time. 

 

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2 minutes ago, joseph2112 said:

It seems to me that in some ways Vince was ruined creatively by Rock and Austin. Garbage lines, dumb storylines, props, whatever it was, those dudes got it over and the crowd kept eating it up in record numbers. It turns out that it's really a rare thing that two generational stars appear at the same time. 

 

Naaaaah... The WWF has always been about the wacky comedy since Jr. took over the company. TNT, Prime Time, Hillbilly Jim’s wedding, etc... It’s just ever since Vince clamped down on his companies creative, it’s gotten worse, and worse.

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