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3 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

 

So why should anyone who has done or said some bad shit in the past even try to work on being a better person when this is how people are going to react to them saying anything?

Of COURSE not. That would be madness. We're all human beings. I'm just saying the choice of language may have not been the best for someone under the scrutiny Lars is under because 1) it makes the perception of the situation look like he's learned nothing and is the same guy, and 2) it devalues his later apology in my opinion. 

I dislike any rush to judgment in these public fuckup scenarios that go on seemingly every day now, but again: the whole use of language like "snowflake" is indicative, to me personally, that he's probably, no definitely, learned and grown zero point zero.

Purely my opinion. You make some fantastic points about things like redemption and forgiveness but in my heart of hearts, I don't know if they can really be applied here.

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1 minute ago, christopher.annino said:

I was just going to post an apology about not being on the topic of wrestling but holy shit, especially regarding wwe, you can't get away from some of this when it comes to the sport and the industry. 

it would be really cool if everybody who has said dumb racist shit online could turn a new leaf, but if they don't and they are working in a company with the same people that they talk shit about? Well then hopefully those people who have said dumb racist shit online are ready for confrontation from their coworkers.

Hah, I was just thinking about doing the same. It's hard not to comment on it because it is ultimately about wrestling and it's hard to ignore. Like, I'd much rather see and laugh at more of Troma's love of W*ing, but we've got this shit that's hard to look away from.

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Just now, Craig H said:

we've got this shit that's hard to look away from.

WWE in a nutshell actually, so it seems rather than apologize for the derailment, we actually unwittingly got shit back on track

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Back on topic, so how about that PCO. I hear he's undead.

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PCO vs Taven last night was a fucking spectacle. Just...wow. Crazy fun.

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9 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Back on topic, so how about that PCO. I hear he's undead.

I'm going to finish watching the show today. 

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Yeah, it's hard because everything is political, and you can't get away from it, but of course we are trying to avoid it here at the same time.

I remain disappointed that some folks type things that sum up to feeling bad that virulent racists who whip up the sort of racist sentiment that we know has a negative impact in real life - see Dylann Roof as one example - might lose their dream job because viewers don't like it.

Why is there more sympathy for racists (sexists, homophobes, transphobes, etc.) than the people hurt by the actions that the rhetoric of these people helped to cause? Actually, that's rhetorical.

(And I've read Ronson's book, and I'm not saying a doxx for a doxx is good behavior, but if you put your racist thoughts and jokes out there in public, why would you be surprised when people get fed up with it?)

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Look what just happened to Danny Baker. Made a gag about the new Royal baby without thinking it through, gets called on it, apologizes and still gets fired by the BBC. 

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From the WWE loves to spoil their own PPV results file (for a cool reason but more ammunition for the KAYFABE IS DEAD~! camp)

 

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Right at the start of Starrcade 88 there is footage of Luger(in yellow tights) submitting Flair(in white tights) with the torture rack, and the fans go ape shit. Where is this from?

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7 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Right at the start of Starrcade 88 there is footage of Luger(in yellow tights) submitting Flair(in white tights) with the torture rack, and the fans go ape shit. Where is this from?

Great American Bash 1988

EDIT - That is the famous match where they do the Dusty Finish where Luger loses because he was bleeding and the Maryland Commision stopped the match

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Right at the start of Starrcade 88 there is footage of Luger(in yellow tights) submitting Flair(in white tights) with the torture rack, and the fans go ape shit. Where is this from?

Will guess you're referring to GAB '88 with the infamous Maryland State Athletic Commission Dusty Finish?

Edit: Damn you, @RIPPA

Edited by Peck
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10 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Great American Bash 1988

EDIT - That is the famous match where they do the Dusty Finish where Luger loses because he was bleeding and the Maryland Commision stopped the match

Ugh I remember now. For some reason the slow-mo they put it through on Starrcade made it look like a non-title tv match that I’ve never seen before.

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This classic moment just got reposted.

The only question I have is:  Marijuana or Quaaludes?  

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I swear I only just saw that post this minute. The fact that I posted a Valerie Solanos quote in the gif thread three minutes after Dolfan posted an Andy Warhol video in this one is a total coincidence.

He really wan't trying to hide that it was a wig by the 80s, was he? I've known blondes with Black roots, but I've never known anyone to have straight blonde hair and curly black hair on the same head.

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53 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Ugh I remember now. For some reason the slow-mo they put it through on Starrcade made it look like a non-title tv match that I’ve never seen before.

The Starrcade match is my favorite Luger/Flair encounter. Absolute perfection!

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Brisco said:

The Starrcade match is my favorite Luger/Flair encounter. Absolute perfection!

That match and the GAB match (despite the finish) were so fun for me to go back and watch as a teenager after having grown up with them on Nitro (separately, for the most part) and then seeing them in The Magnificent 7 together at the very tail end of WCW. Flair ranting and going wild about Luger's body fat percentage 

 

Edited a word

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath

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4 hours ago, Infinit said:

Don't want your ass bit over stupid racist shit you posted in your past on the internet? Don't post stupid racist shit on the internet.

The point is, this is all public record. Every keystroke. Everyone needs to be prepared to be held accountable for every contribution or thought they post. 

The big problem for this goes beyond what Sullivan said and to an even bigger thing to remember.

Yes, everything you've ever said on the Internet is out there forever...but at the same time, everything you've ever said on the Internet is out there forever.

Social justice has been moving far faster than it ever has in recent years, and the big thing about social justice is that, you will know your generation did it right because inevitably, YOU WILL LIVE TO SEE YOURSELF BECOME THE VILLAIN. It's inevitable, because if you move the line far enough in your lifetime for "who deserves equality", eventually that line's going to go to a place that didn't exist in your time fighting, go to a line that you couldn't have seen it going to THAT extreme coming, going to a line where it was an acceptable target in your time. 

This is the problem with people scouring the past of famous people's Tweets just to see if they said something problematic so you can dogpile them: They don't judge people by the standards of the time they were said. Fair for its Day does not exist in that world, They judge them by the standards of the exact moment that it happened- and even if you weren't saying shit as racist as Sullivan was, you're being judged for stuff even as far as 25 years ago by the standards of 2019...and that's going to continue happening, and one day, even if you're the most woke person around and you were woke enough that even in 1994 on the day you got that AOL disk in the mail and first logged on, you had the same opinions the most woke person in 2019 would have.....in 10-15 years, the line's still going to go further, and one day, that line's going to hit you. 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

Muck raking from years ago is almost as shitty as making the comments themselves

Regardless of how you feel about forgiveness and people being able to change and all that... Are these two things really almost equally shitty? 

One is pointing out shitty, dehumanizing comments.

The other is making shitty, dehumanizing comments. 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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It is true that social mores change, and that we should hope they change for the better. However, it's not remotely accurate to say they always have trended that way, or that they will do so by default. "Be careful, or someday you'll look like a bigot!" is an argument for stasis, and ultimately--because those working against progress keep working--regression. The arc of history doesn't inevitably bend towards justice, or anything except that which people bend it towards. This is not to say people should be destroyed for past--or even current--transgressions, but "sorry you were offended" is a non-apology, and people are right to regard it as such.

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43 minutes ago, AxB said:

I swear I only just saw that post this minute. The fact that I posted a Valerie Solanos quote in the gif thread three minutes after Dolfan posted an Andy Warhol video in this one is a total coincidence.

He really wan't trying to hide that it was a wig by the 80s, was he? I've known blondes with Black roots, but I've never known anyone to have straight blonde hair and curly black hair on the same head.

I thought the artificiality of the wig was the whole point. 

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My advice. Keep up with society and acceptance in it and if something changes you don't like for some reason or another, don't say something you'll regret in a format accessible for eternity. When our robot overlords powered by the AI of RIPPA come for us one day, we will know when our time is over.

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1 minute ago, Beech27 said:

It is true that social mores change, and that we should hope they change for the better. However, it's not remotely accurate to say they always have trended that way, or that they will do so by default. "Be careful, or someday you'll look like a bigot!" is an argument for stasis, and ultimately--because those working against progress keep working--regression. The arc of history doesn't inevitably bend towards justice, or anything except that which people bend it towards. This is not to say people should be destroyed for past--or even current--transgressions, but "sorry you were offended" is a non-apology, and people are right to regard it as such.

On the contrary- even as people working for progress occur, what I'm not saying is "be careful, or someday you'll look like a bigot" is not stasis or regression. Rather, knowing going into this "there is no place for us in our perfect world, and if we did this right, one day we WILL look like bigots, and we should celebrate that" is an argument for progression. But that's also the point- because right now it will still work towards it and think otherwise...and saying that you have no grounds to think otherwise is not only shortsighted (since there are still acceptable targets now), but it's actually kind of arrogant and ultimately regressive to say "our generation is the ONLY generation that trends upwards, and no other generation will progress after us."

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21 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

On the contrary- even as people working for progress occur, what I'm not saying is "be careful, or someday you'll look like a bigot" is not stasis or regression. Rather, knowing going into this "there is no place for us in our perfect world, and if we did this right, one day we WILL look like bigots, and we should celebrate that" is an argument for progression. But that's also the point- because right now it will still work towards it and think otherwise...and saying that you have no grounds to think otherwise is not only shortsighted (since there are still acceptable targets now), but it's actually kind of arrogant and ultimately regressive to say "our generation is the ONLY generation that trends upwards, and no other generation will progress after us."

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m rejecting the utility of this generational categorical model when it comes to deciding right action/ethics. All we can do is the best we can do, right now. I have no idea what that will mean in 50 years or 500, but history tells me some things will be better and some will be worse. Ultimately I’m advocating for personal responsibility and autonomy. If you’re always self-critical and willing to be better, you needn’t get left behind. And to the topic at hand, you can avoid tone-deaf non-apologies.

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11 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m rejecting the utility of this generational categorical model when it comes to deciding right action/ethics. All we can do is the best we can do, right now. I have no idea what that will mean in 50 years or 500, but history tells me some things will be better and some will be worse. Ultimately I’m advocating for personal responsibility and autonomy. If you’re always self-critical and willing to be better, you needn’t get left behind. And to the topic at hand, you can avoid tone-deaf non-apologies.

But that's also similar to the topic at hand and why the "saying people said shitty comments is as bad as making the shitty comments' thing.

If it was just "these people made shitty comments and are being exposed", it's one thing...but the rise of this cottage industry of people searching through newly famous people's social media to try and find something salacious to hold against them is a little different. It's not really about "this person said this! Cancel them!" as much as "See? See? This person said this, and I FOUND OUT! I'm a better person than this famous person! Reward me with this person's fame, that I proved I deserve for being a good person! I got my 15 minutes of fame for finding this person was terrible! I'M IMPORTANT! I'm a HERO!"

This is a big deal, because with that in place, personal responsibility and autonomy ultimately can't exist in worlds like this. People should always be self-critical and willing to be better. Just because you said some bullshit in the past, that doesn't mean you shouldn't realize "Man, that was bullshit that I thought. I need to change my ways and work to not think like that again"...but the whole point is, it doesn't matter to the people doing this. To the people scouring people's past, every human being's worst moment is who they are in the dark. They don't care about your personal reflection and growth, they care that this mistake proves they're BETTER THAN YOU. When that's what people want, then your worst moment in your life is all that you are, and more importantly, it's all that you will ever be. With this type of person, even suicide in penitence for your misdeeds won't help, because the response would just be "Woo hoo! Hope it hurt, [insert your worst moment]!"

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