MAY 2019 WRESTLING TALK

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, MORELOCK said:

The only thing true about any of this is "legit shocker." DDP did his best with the promo, but it has never made any sense for 99% of wrestlers to stalk anyone's (let alone the fucking UNDERTAKER's) wife as a way of getting inside their head or whatever. Of that 99%, DDP is probably one of the least likely characters in modern history to do it. The booking didn't go to shit - it was built on a shit foundation. It was garbage when Styles and Joe did it last year too.

100% this. To add to that, I recall most people online already knowing the stalker was DDP. Seeing it confirmed when he took off the mask just made it feel like more of a WTF type of thing. Then you hear the promo and hardly any of it makes sense.

It makes even less sense when you have DDP come in, who was one of the most beloved wrestlers from WCW, and you immediately have him be a heel that's going after Undertaker and his wife.

And then he was promptly squashed. In fact, that's all I remember of DDP's WWE run. That he was squashed by Undertaker. I couldn't tell you anything he did after that and if you told me that he left WWE right after that, I'd believe you.

[The Natural]

10 minutes ago, Craig H said:

100% this. To add to that, I recall most people online already knowing the stalker was DDP. Seeing it confirmed when he took off the mask just made it feel like more of a WTF type of thing. Then you hear the promo and hardly any of it makes sense.

It makes even less sense when you have DDP come in, who was one of the most beloved wrestlers from WCW, and you immediately have him be a heel that's going after Undertaker and his wife.

And then he was promptly squashed. In fact, that's all I remember of DDP's WWE run. That he was squashed by Undertaker. I couldn't tell you anything he did after that and if you told me that he left WWE right after that, I'd believe you.

Undertaker's missus at the time, Sara pinned DDP as well.

DDP went on with the motivational speaker like gimmick "That's not a bad thing, that's a good thing" and won the WWF European Championship. DDP retained versus Christian at WrestleMania X8.

DDP also entered a Royal Rumble match as a surprise entrant a few years back and was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame.

Edited May 24, 2019 by The Natural

[LP Steve]

46 minutes ago, Craig H said:

100% this. To add to that, I recall most people online already knowing the stalker was DDP. Seeing it confirmed when he took off the mask just made it feel like more of a WTF type of thing. Then you hear the promo and hardly any of it makes sense.

It makes even less sense when you have DDP come in, who was one of the most beloved wrestlers from WCW, and you immediately have him be a heel that's going after Undertaker and his wife.

And then he was promptly squashed. In fact, that's all I remember of DDP's WWE run. That he was squashed by Undertaker. I couldn't tell you anything he did after that and if you told me that he left WWE right after that, I'd believe you.

On top of all that, DDP 's own wife had played a prominent role in several WCW angles, including one where SHE was being stalked by Scott Steiner.  My memory is vague-- did they explain where the hell Kimberly was while DDP was stalking Undertaker's wife?

[MORELOCK]

I don't think Kimberly was ever mentioned on WWE TV.

[clintthecrippler]

18 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

I was thinking earlier today that the 24/7 Title would be perfect for Braun Strowman as something to keep him occupied.

This is literally what my first thought was when the belt was unveiled and explained, that because for some reason Vince refuses to put any other belt onto Braun, that this was created to essentially become a "Being Braun Strowman" title, since the concept of the championship itself bakes in room for the insane backstage segments/outlandish feats of strength they love writing for Braun. 

[Casey]

2 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

I don't believe that this was the case. The contracts that were picked up (with the exceptions of Booker T and DDP, who IIRC willingly agreed to take the pay cut) were directly under WCW, while the people that sat out were the ones that were contracted directly to AOLTW.

Did Flair take the pay cut when he came to WWF in November 2001, or was his AOL/Time Warner contract up at that point? The Rewind posts said he was considering coming in when DDP and Booker did, because he's Ric Flair and addicted to wrestling, but was weighing that against the stability of the guaranteed money would provide for his family.

[MORELOCK]

Flair, Rey, Goldberg, Hogan, Hall, Nash, and Steiner all ran their contracts out before all showing up in the first couple of years after the Invasion. 

Edited May 24, 2019 by MORELOCK
Not Hennig

[JonnyLaw]

2 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

This is literally what my first thought was when the belt was unveiled and explained, that because for some reason Vince refuses to put any other belt onto Braun, that this was created to essentially become a "Being Braun Strowman" title, since the concept of the championship itself bakes in room for the insane backstage segments/outlandish feats of strength they love writing for Braun. 

I can picture Drake finally winning the title, then running from a stampede of wrestlers, only to run head first into Braun and knocking himself out. Braun pins him with one foot while the stampede stops and stares, mouths agape, while Braun tells them to get these hands while he walks off with the title. Then you get weeks of wacky hijinks as people try to trick Braun into getting pinned.

Edited May 24, 2019 by JonnyLaw

[SorceressKnight]

I thought that Flair (and Hogan) didn't immediately take the buyout, but they still had time left on the AOLTW deal when he did take a buyout to go to WWF (or, they took the buyout far later than others, but they still agreed to a buyout.) 

As far as why WWE took the contracts they did- in addition to the "they were all the people contracted to WCW and not AOLTW, there was also the point where...honestly, the WCW 24 was a good mix of guys who could be considered the best prospects in WCW at the time. Most of WCW's young talent was in the mix, and the only guy who was too much of a veteran to be a non-prospect of the list was Hugh Morrus (and given his rise to be in the thick of the US Title picture by the end, it was arguable he was starting to put it all together and have some value.)

There were people who didn't pan out in the list of 24, but on paper in 2001, if someone said "who could WWF potentially salvage from the WCW roster", most people would say "okay, Team Canada can be salvaged since Awesome/Storm were big ECW guys and Skipper's a prospect, the Natural Born Thrillers can be salvaged because they're WCW's best young prospects,  Three Count and the Jung Dragons can be salvaged because come on, just WATCH those guys,  Miss Hancock can be salvaged because just LOOK AT HER, and I guess the Misfits in Action can probably at least be a fun lowcard tag team to get into 24/7 Hardcore title hijinks...and hell, throw Kwee Wee in the mix for that too."

The only two people on the list of 24 who wouldn't immediately seem like they could be salvaged just from that would be Kid Romeo and Jason Jett- and both guys were such new workers on the list they could get the benefit of the doubt (plus, Jett would have his ECW experience to add to it.) 

 

 

[The Natural]

2019's been a great one for wrestling documentaries - Nigel McGuinness: Chasing the Dream, Omega Man: A Wrestling Love Story and Holy Grail: The Search For WWE's Most Infamous Lost Match having watched that today.

EDIT: AEW Road to Double of Nothing. Ta for reminding me, AxB.

Edited May 24, 2019 by The Natural

[Casey]

Holy shit, in the newest Observer Rewind, it came out that SLAYER was commissioned by the WWF to do a theme song for either Test or... Kurt Angle?!

Let's imagine that for a minute.

[AxB]

The other stupid thing about DDP stalking Sara Undertaker was that he was doing it to get into Taker's head, because he wanted Taker to Make Me Famous. He was already a multiple time World Champion, Main Evented a PPV against Hogan, starred in a nationally released movie, was a New York Times bestselling author, had that music video with Stuck Mojo... he already was famous. More famous before the Undertaker feud than he was after it, arguably.

59 minutes ago, The Natural said:

2019's been a great one for wrestling documentaries - Nigel McGuinness: Chasing the Dream, Omega Man: A Wrestling Love Story and Holy Grail: The Search For WWE's Most Infamous Lost Match having watched that today.

Did you not watch the Road to Double of Nothing on ITV4? Because that was sort of a documentary too.

[The Natural]

1 minute ago, AxB said:

Did you not watch the Road to Double of Nothing on ITV4? Because that was sort of a documentary too.

I did but forgot to mention it. Thank you for bringing it up.

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

DDP already was famous. More famous before the Undertaker feud than he was after it, arguably.

that's....a hell of a point.  the stalker, and subsequent motivational speaker gimmick, did negatively impact the way fans viewed his career.

good thing for DDPY i guess

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Curious whether the split of contract owner was simply a matter of sign off authority required on amounts over a certain dollar value, or whether it was a date issue based on the takeover (all contracts signed after X date are with this entity instead).

My issue wasn't with who they signed, it was that they signed them all at once, largely at an unnecessarily inflated rate, given lack of competition, and then felt obliged to use them straight away.

[Wyld Samurai]

5 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

I thought that Flair (and Hogan) didn't immediately take the buyout, but they still had time left on the AOLTW deal when he did take a buyout to go to WWF (or, they took the buyout far later than others, but they still agreed to a buyout.) 

As far as why WWE took the contracts they did- in addition to the "they were all the people contracted to WCW and not AOLTW, there was also the point where...honestly, the WCW 24 was a good mix of guys who could be considered the best prospects in WCW at the time. Most of WCW's young talent was in the mix, and the only guy who was too much of a veteran to be a non-prospect of the list was Hugh Morrus (and given his rise to be in the thick of the US Title picture by the end, it was arguable he was starting to put it all together and have some value.)

There were people who didn't pan out in the list of 24, but on paper in 2001, if someone said "who could WWF potentially salvage from the WCW roster", most people would say "okay, Team Canada can be salvaged since Awesome/Storm were big ECW guys and Skipper's a prospect, the Natural Born Thrillers can be salvaged because they're WCW's best young prospects,  Three Count and the Jung Dragons can be salvaged because come on, just WATCH those guys,  Miss Hancock can be salvaged because just LOOK AT HER, and I guess the Misfits in Action can probably at least be a fun lowcard tag team to get into 24/7 Hardcore title hijinks...and hell, throw Kwee Wee in the mix for that too."

The only two people on the list of 24 who wouldn't immediately seem like they could be salvaged just from that would be Kid Romeo and Jason Jett- and both guys were such new workers on the list they could get the benefit of the doubt (plus, Jett would have his ECW experience to add to it.) 

 

 

Specifically the dude that the WWF would have been salivating over is Sean O'Haire. That guy had money written all over him. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

43 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Specifically the dude that the WWF would have been salivating over is Sean O'Haire. That guy had money written all over him. 

I mean they for sure gave it the college try w those sick ass devils advocate vignettes. They even went a step further when they discovered he couldn't do it live and put him w Piper. I was sad about that one I loved him in WCW. Mike Sanders should've been a star too I dont even care. I dint follow Mexico is jindrak still a guy

[mystman]

5 hours ago, AxB said:

The other stupid thing about DDP stalking Sara Undertaker was that he was doing it to get into Taker's head, because he wanted Taker to Make Me Famous. He was already a multiple time World Champion, Main Evented a PPV against Hogan, starred in a nationally released movie, was a New York Times bestselling author, had that music video with Stuck Mojo... he already was famous. More famous before the Undertaker feud than he was after it, arguably.

Did you not watch the Road to Double of Nothing on ITV4? Because that was sort of a documentary too.

No wrestler is famous until he comes to work for Vince.

At least according to Vince.

[Rehabilitated Rick]

Then how would you explain Flair appearing on Vince's show with the big Gold and going onto winning Vince's world title 5 months later in a match that housed a who's who of WWF royality (pun intended)?

That's just one example of Vince rolling out the red carpet, I'm sure there's hundreds more

[Nice Guy Eddie]

6 hours ago, Casey said:

Holy shit, in the newest Observer Rewind, it came out that SLAYER was commissioned by the WWF to do a theme song for either Test or... Kurt Angle?!

Let's imagine that for a minute.

I read this six hours ago and I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it. 

A Slayer-fied version of Austin's theme would have been better than the Disturbed one in 2001. A Slayer theme in 1999 would have probably sounded like their 1998 album, Diabolus in Musica, which had more of a groove metal sound, and is usually seen as the least Slayer-like and least popular album of their albums.

If a Slayer theme would have fit anybody, it would have been Taker and the Ministry of Darkness.

Edited May 25, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I read this six hours ago and I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around it. 

A Slayer-fied version of Austin's theme would have been better than the Disturbed one in 2001. A Slayer theme in 1999 would have probably sounded like their 1998 album Diabolus in Musica, which had more of a groove metal sound, and is usually seen as the least Slayer-like and least popular album of them all.

If a Slayer theme would have fit anybody, it would have been Taker and the Ministry of Darkness.

I heard zakk wylde wrote an Austin theme yhay was supposed yo be fucking unreal. I always wondrted if it was him playing on snitskys shit

[Ziggy]

21 hours ago, L_W_P said:

Also what's  all this "DDP as the Stalker sucked" hot take BS. The angle was great, Page was a legit shocker & the reveal/promo is still one of the most surreal home runs WWE ever hit.

Sure the booking went to shit but the choice of Page was perfectly fine.
 

 

To bad he wasn't brought in as the Positively Paige gimmick he got be at the End of his WWF run but you know they had to book everyone as dastardly heels. He would've gotten way over like RVD because the let RVD be himself. Even if they booked him to be super goofy like Booker T, Paige would have still gotten way over. & how much of that angle had to do with the fact that Undertaker had another reason to bring his wife to TV every week? She was already involved in a few angles before that. At least Debra was good in the stuff she was involved in and honestly was apart of some of Austin's best stuff during the invasion. It makes me wonder if they did get Goldberg during the invasion how would they have booked him. He would've been way over as well but you know they would've had him doing things to paint him as the heel. It would have been interesting just for the fact that you know Austin who was still on a career run of great matches and Rock who came back in the summer would've both been trying to work against him off the jump. As paranoid and political as Austin was, He and Rock would've done way better business with Goldberg than Hunter didn't because they wouldn't have purposely sabotaged him. If he came in Austin wouldn't have joined WCW and turned face sooner. It would've made more sense for Jericho to turn heel and join. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Ziggy

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I watched a house show w a rvd vs taz main in 2001 and they were more over than taker and Kane legit

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I remember there was an O'Haire vs Steiner World Title main event on a Nitro or Thunder maybe a few weeks before the end. 

He was super over and they protected him massively in the finish. Still can't believe they fucked that up.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:44 PM, RolandTHTG said:

I remember there was an O'Haire vs Steiner World Title main event on a Nitro or Thunder maybe a few weeks before the end. 

He was super over and they protected him massively in the finish. Still can't believe they fucked that up.

And by that I mean, Cagematch says it never happened? Huh?