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MAY 2019 WRESTLING TALK


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4 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

What is interesting about this particular moment in wrestling and I'm sure is what is getting in the way of some of these releases, is traditionally if WWE treated someone like a low-level C-program performer, it would be almost impossible for them to redeem themselves. Yet today due to how Vince values talent and a gigantic roster of enormously talented individuals, a lot of cream is no longer rising to the top.

In the past if a lower mid-card guy switches promotions (think Paul Roma or Hercules) you could try shooting them to the top of the card, but it would make the promotion look ridiculous. The rules have changed. So you'll have someone like Luke Harper who can't even get on the main shows who would be near the top of the card in another promotion. 

 

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I believe Cody recently said in an interview there's only about 5% of WWE talent he would want to sign if they became available so AEW doesn't gain the reputation of being a haven for" WWE cast-offs".

Ultimately, both of these things are connected to each other, though. 

I'm sure Cody is right when he said he only has interest in a small amount of WWE people...but ultimately, the problem is that to fans, that doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter to fans that AEW doesn't just want to be WWE castoffs, or that AEW is trying to be a much more sustainable promotion with performers of their own...heck, it doesn't even matter that when WWE castoffs go to other promotions, there's plenty of examples of people like Shannon Moore or Doug Basham who everyone swore "well, these guys may be mediocre in WWE, but it's just that WWE Style that's handcuffing them and FORCING them to put on terrible matches! If they went to TNA/ROH, they'd be putting on amazing matches without the WWE Style!", and then they went to TNA...and they kind of sucked there too. 

What would matter is ultimately the fans saying "This wrestler is so talented! You HAVE to bring them in!", leading to "...you HAVE to bring them in! This is what your fans WANT!", which leads to "I thought AEW was going to be different. I thought they CARED about the fans. I guess I was wrong. AEW sucks. The Elite are sellouts. Cody's no better than Vince McMahon...hell, he may even be WORSE than Vince." ...and eventually, AEW would have to bring them in just to shut their fanbase up and keep this "we're going to give you what you want" aura going...and then, the casual fans would think of it as "WWE castoff central."

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1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:

So is the plan to have a Roman vs. the establishment/authority/McMahons feud based on that tweet?

And if so, did I take a time machine back to 1998?

 

 

Now we know why Vince let them sign Kushida. He finally watched Back to the Future. 

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23 minutes ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Now we know why Vince let them sign Kushida. He finally watched Back to the Future. 

Just wait until "Jumpin' Gigawatts!" is uttered during dueling Roman/ Vince promos.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I believe Cody recently said in an interview there's only about 5% of WWE talent he would want to sign if they became available so AEW doesn't gain the reputation of being a haven for" WWE cast-offs".

I have never bought into the "cast offs" concept. The WWF had their best years using WCW cast offs and WCW did pretty pretty good with a cast off who was crushed by Yokozuna.

TNA's problem was always Dixie Carter. 

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6 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

it doesn't even matter that when WWE castoffs go to other promotions, there's plenty of examples of people like Shannon Moore or Doug Basham who everyone swore "well, these guys may be mediocre in WWE, but it's just that WWE Style that's handcuffing them and FORCING them to put on terrible matches! If they went to TNA/ROH, they'd be putting on amazing matches without the WWE Style!", and then they went to TNA...and they kind of sucked there too. 

Since when was Shannon Moore bad? Basham was fine in the WWF, he did what they wanted him to do. He was very good in OVW and was part of the lost generation that WWE pissed away. 

The rest of it is nonsense, nobody is going to stop watching a good promotion. This is like the "Unions would mean every wrestler gets to main event."

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1 hour ago, Victator said:

I have never bought into the "cast offs" concept. The WWF had their best years using WCW cast offs and WCW did pretty pretty good with a cast off who was crushed by Yokozuna.

TNA's problem was always Dixie Carter. 

I don't buy into the "cast-off's" concept either.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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3 hours ago, Victator said:

I have never bought into the "cast offs" concept. The WWF had their best years using WCW cast offs and WCW did pretty pretty good with a cast off who was crushed by Yokozuna.

TNA's problem was always Dixie Carter. 

 

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't buy into the "cast-off's" concept either.

The problem with TNA taking WWE's castoffs wasn't the Shannon Moores or the Bashams, it was the guys like Nash and Hall who were way the hell past the point were they should be working full time for a national promotion. Remember DDP's TNA run? Or Rikishi's? Because those both happened.

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19 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

 

The problem with TNA taking WWE's castoffs wasn't the Shannon Moores or the Bashams, it was the guys like Nash and Hall who were way the hell past the point were they should be working full time for a national promotion. Remember DDP's TNA run? Or Rikishi's? Because those both happened.

I remember them and they were awful. I want guys and girls that leave WWE that can go elsewhere and be an asset rather than someone well past their prime going just to collect a check.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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5 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

 

The problem with TNA taking WWE's castoffs wasn't the Shannon Moores or the Bashams, it was the guys like Nash and Hall who were way the hell past the point were they should be working full time for a national promotion. Remember DDP's TNA run? Or Rikishi's? Because those both happened.

Nah I think it was more like when it got to the point where it was like WWE releases that were not cast offs but “creative has nothing for you” guys to WWE releases Titan towers janitor next day TNA hires to no one’s surprise type stuff. 

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4 hours ago, Victator said:

Since when was Shannon Moore bad? Basham was fine in the WWF, he did what they wanted him to do. He was very good in OVW and was part of the lost generation that WWE pissed away. 

It's not just about bad.

With Shannon Moore, he was mediocre in WWE before his first firing, and everyone said "No, no, it's only the WWE Style handcuffing him! If he was in ROH or TNA, he'd be the best high-flier in the world if he got to wrestle REAL matches!" Then he went to TNA, and he was...no better than he was in WWE.

Same token with Basham- people said "he did what he was told to do in WWE" (i.e.: Be a generic brawler who was nothing to write home about). People said "he was so good in OVW! Let him be like he was in OVW and he'd be a world-class technical wrestler and be as good as the ROH/TNA guys!" . And he went to TNA, and was...the same generic brawler who was nothing to write home about.

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Recruitment is half the battle in any business.  I always compared TNA’s recruitment policy with bottom end EPL soccer teams.

Sunderland FC: “We’ve signed 2-ex Manchester United players”

They announce Wes Brown and John O’Shea.  

Top teams keep their top guys and build around those with young hungry talent and grow them to become the next top guys.  Circle of life.  The problem comes with bad management, if the roster becomes too deep or clogged with the manager’s favourites, then the overlooked talent will go elsewhere.  For other companies frustrated talent is often the best type to pick up as they have a point to prove and work harder if they can see the opportunity to advance.  

This type of frustrated talent has happened at both WCW and Impact.  Both times to the benefit of WWE.

Its interesting to see how different WWE’s use of the talent has changed in that time. They hit home runs for the most part with Austin, Foley, Jericho, Guerrero.

Today their booking hasn’t allowed anyone that’s left a promotion due to frustration,  maybe AJ Styles excepted, to become a huge star.  WWE seems to have most of their roster “locked in” to their roles.  What your role on day one is likely still going to be your role on the day you leave.  Bryan and Ali maybe the only notable exceptions in recent memory.

AEW, Impact, ROH and MLW need to very wise in which WWE “cast offs” they pick up. If a guy/girl hasn’t been doing it in WWE and been mailing it in then don’t go near them.  If there is someone released who has been busting their ass, but was simply overlooked? That’s the person you want.

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4 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

 

The problem with TNA taking WWE's castoffs wasn't the Shannon Moores or the Bashams, it was the guys like Nash and Hall who were way the hell past the point were they should be working full time for a national promotion. Remember DDP's TNA run? Or Rikishi's? Because those both happened.

DDP had some good TV matches. But I don't think he was used as well as he should have been. I thought Nash looked good in TNA mostly. I think he takes more pride in his work than people think. Hall has been worthless since 1999 minus a match or two. Rikishi did not give a shit. I think they could have done a feud with Samoa Joe. 

 

2 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Same token with Basham- people said "he did what he was told to do in WWE" (i.e.: Be a generic brawler who was nothing to write home about). People said "he was so good in OVW! Let him be like he was in OVW and he'd be a world-class technical wrestler and be as good as the ROH/TNA guys!" . And he went to TNA, and was...the same generic brawler who was nothing to write home about.

Unrelated but that is such a weasel phrase and you are not the only who does it. People will say "Its good, not great." Then just say it is good. A lot of the game review shows do that and it grinds my gears. Hell I catch myself doing it. 

1. Nobody was super excited about Moore going to TNA. He had good midcard matches in the X-Division. Basham worked to his push. Also nobody was pining for to get a chance. OVW was hard as hell to find in 03/06. People heard he was good, then they shaved his head and made him a gimp for a Tough Enough winner.

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2 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

It's not just about bad.

With Shannon Moore, he was mediocre in WWE before his first firing, and everyone said "No, no, it's only the WWE Style handcuffing him! If he was in ROH or TNA, he'd be the best high-flier in the world if he got to wrestle REAL matches!" Then he went to TNA, and he was...no better than he was in WWE.

Same token with Basham- people said "he did what he was told to do in WWE" (i.e.: Be a generic brawler who was nothing to write home about). People said "he was so good in OVW! Let him be like he was in OVW and he'd be a world-class technical wrestler and be as good as the ROH/TNA guys!" . And he went to TNA, and was...the same generic brawler who was nothing to write home about.

As a guy who has made frequent trips to the Danny Davis arena, watched many OVW shows during their heyday, and actually had a few beers with Doug Basham, the guy we got here in OVW was a lot better then we ever saw in WWE or TNA. One of the best tag matches I have ever seen was Basham/Damaja vs Rob Conway/Nick Dinsmore. Doug's problem was really two fold. (1)Doug is a guy who was tailor made for a small regional promotion like OVW. Dude grew up in this area, knew the room he was playing to, and was booked according to his strengths and what the audience wanted to see. There's nothing wrong with this, but you can't take what works in front of a small crowd and just expect that to work in 10000+ seat arenas. Not everyone is going to be the Rock or Steve Austin. Doug Basham worked in his setting.

(2)By the admission of everyone involved, his time in the WWE had beaten the life out of him and he no longer really had the heart for wrestling anymore. By the time he got to TNA, it really was Jim Cornette trying to do his buddy a solid that Doug wasn't really feeling. As a big fan of the guy, I can honestly tell you I don't even remember one thing he did in TNA so it shows how memorable that run was. But the Doug Basham that I saw Tuesday nights here in Louisville was a damn good wrestler.

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Also announced for Smackdown

- Shane will "crown new tag champs"

- KO responds to Kofi's attack

- Bayley/Ember Moon/Carmella vs. Charlotte/Fire & Desire

- Ali vs. Andrade

So of course I am sure the thing that doesn't happen will be Ali vs. Andrade

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1 hour ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

How to totally ruin the feelgood Comeback of Reigns: Put him into an authority storyline...

They really, really think an anti-authority character works with him. Who knows, maybe the cancer scare has softened the majority in-arena crowds, but it’s not a ratings getter. Reigns as “The guy Vince is against being The Man” will never be believable.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Also announced for Smackdown

- Shane will "crown new tag champs"

- KO responds to Kofi's attack

- Bayley/Ember Moon/Carmella vs. Charlotte/Fire & Desire

- Ali vs. Andrade

So of course I am sure the thing that doesn't happen will be Ali vs. Andrade

Why do you insist on crushing my soul this early in the morning?

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21 minutes ago, Matt D said:

The last time before his return he was honestly over as a face was the Sheamus/Vince feud?

Yeah, the night he won the title, but I’m going to put all that on an easy pop for a new champion being crowned.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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