Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, zendragon said:

We are so, so, so close to Ric having this moment:

I mean, we're practically already there. "No, I didn't assault or force myself on anyone, the Nature Boy doesn't do that. Yeah, I totally exposed myself to people who didn't want it and helicoptered my penis."

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

 

I love the part where the 30 for 30 producer is a habitual liar and you can't trust a thing out of his mouth, except the one thing he said that defends Flair.  What a fucking goof.

I hope this finally keeps Flair off everyone's TV for good.  His gimmick was already gross and retrograde before we found out he was a rapist. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, Craig H said:

We are so, so, so close to Ric having this moment:

I mean, we're practically already there. "No, I didn't assault or force myself on anyone, the Nature Boy doesn't do that. Yeah, I totally exposed myself to people who didn't want it and helicoptered my penis."

I know it's semantics at this point,  but there is a line between showing someone your penis and forcing physical contact with your penis and he's saying he doesn't cross that arbitrary ass line.  It sounds like the exact line someone who thinks is appropriate to helicopter his dick in public would draw to justify his actions. It's kind of like someone who repeatedly gets locked up for multiple petty crimes justifying his actions by saying,  "I haven't ever killed anybody." I've heard this type of self defense pretty often from dudes i grew up around. I always just think,  "sure,  you're not a murderer,  but that doesn't excuse all the other things you actually are."

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's very possible that Ric thinks that if he himself doesn't physically force someone to touch him then he didn't force them. He definitely comes across like someone who doesn't believe coercion or intimidation are linked to sexual assault/rape. I've known men like this who think that if they are not physically harming the victim then everything is fine and dandy because they are fucking scumbag narcissists or sociopaths.  

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the last two posts, 100% on each. Ric can say that he didn't force someone to touch his penis, but he's so fucking dumb and such a good ol' boy that you can pretty much guarantee that to him, cornering a woman while naked, saying "come on baby, touch the Nature Boy!" or "hey baby, you know you're curious" isn't the same as forcing her to touch him when it is the same fucking thing. It's all gross. Even typing that out made me feel gross.

  • Like 6
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

There are some pretty terrible allegations, and I do mean terrible, that have been made regarding the training dojos for NJPW. 

Yeah, I forgot about all that Ring of Hell shit. Tana could very well not be telling everything he knows about New Japan; I just meant that he's been honest about Inoki, the money troubles, booking etc. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never heard stories of Greg the Hammer swinging his hammer. Never heard of Tim the Tool Man Tayler helicoptering his tool.   The Brawny towel man never helicoptered his axe.   The sad thing is Flair seems to have done this more than once. Hell I bet he did this more often than not. Wonder what Charlotte thinks of all this? Hell was Charlotte on a plane when Ric did this? Imagine how embarrassing that would be. Sitting on the plane with your friends and your dad comes strutting out with a robe (cape according to DSOTW)  and nothing on under it.  Giving a strip show to the plane. Fuck I'd quit my job and become a hermit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Infinit said:

My friend, who portrayed Herb Abrams in the DSOTR ep, is also playing Jim Mitchell in the Kanyon ep. Pretty cool!

Yeah, I can see how someone who resembles Herb would get the gig to play Mitchell as well. I mean, they are not separated at birth or anything, but there's enough of a resemblance that if someone can pass for one, they can be made up to look like the other!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/20/2021 at 9:49 AM, zendragon said:

To quote someone from this board "Flair is the clown that doesn't know when to take the makeup off"

So The Plane Ride from Hell is just Flair's "The Day The Clown Cried"?

James

Edited by J.H.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched The Plane Ride From Hell episode and wanted to catch up on the thread before posting. I'll be covering ground already covered.

Really felt for Heidi Doyle having to retell what happened including sexual assault by Ric Flair. Also feel for the other flight attendants. Ditto Terri getting told to "don't sell" such inappropriate behaviour. The producers rightly asked Jim Ross why Ric Flair wasn't punished for his behaviour. Takes a while for JR to reply saying he was a made man. So telling that. We've known how Ric Flair's behaved for years and I don't want to see him again. Ditto for Scott Hall. Tommy Dreamer was appalling with his statements. What a fucking idiot. Mike Chioda annoyed me chuckling at everything what went down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kanyon made an appearance on the Howard Stern Show in 2006.

Ric Flair called in and responded to the claim that Kanyon was fired from WWE because he was gay.

With the DSOTR episode coming up, the Stern clip resurfaced and Flair was criticized for his comments about Kanyon.

Prior to the premiere of Kanyon’s DSOTR episode on Thursday night, Flair issued a statement via Twitter regarding the Stern clip…

“Breaks my heart to hear later on that he took this so hard. Calling into guests that were seen as ‘hostile’ to WWE was part of the job then. I should not have said that nobody had ‘ever’ been released; there’s no way I could have known that for sure.

I was holding the company line.

Love is love is love is love and everyone should be able to love whoever and however they choose without fear of reprisal. I wasn’t a huge Kanyon fan as a worker; but Chris Klucsarits was a hell of a good guy.

Next week on Dark Side of the Ring: Ric Flair and Caitlyn Jenner were both born in 1949. Coincidence? Or something more…”

The line about Jenner was quickly deleted from Twitter.

Edited by AxB
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wait 2006 John Cena thought Kanyon sucked in the ring.  In 2006 that is fucking rich.   In case you were wondering John was always the company guy

To the surprise of nobody James Mitchell is incredible in this show

Edited by hammerva
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cena worked against Kanyon in Kanyon's first matches post-injury in 2002 OVW. Which isn't to justify Cena's POV in any way, but just context that could explain some of how Cena felt about Kanyon along with the usual company-speak.

But considering the OVW run.. prepare yourself for some Cornette clips, which probably isn't gonna involve a public self-immolation but it'd be surprising if the Cena clip didn''t come up on the first JC podcast after this episode.

Mental illness is a hell of a thing, and the stories had a lot of blaring red flags of various things that were 'off' about how he was acting. Like some of his behavior sounded like people who were on something, but at the same time, he's bipolar, so.

Parts of the timeline were jumbled (looking at you, DDP, thinking that Mortis was quashed by the NWO). But it is what it is.

Next week is people unaware of the Dark Side of the FMW... and they'll be surprised by the Yakuza and a huge star getting paralyzed in the ring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Man, that one hurt, and I didn't expect it to so much. 

I love James Mitchell. Ever since I saw him on the Forever Hardcore doc talking about him being a drunk and him blowing his hand apart, imitating Sandman and saying they used to play trivia all the time, I've loved that guy, and this just cements him as the most solid dude ever. 

Edited by Curt McGirt
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Cena worked against Kanyon in Kanyon's first matches post-injury in 2002 OVW. Which isn't to justify Cena's POV in any way, but just context that could explain some of how Cena felt about Kanyon along with the usual company-speak.

But considering the OVW run.. prepare yourself for some Cornette clips, which probably isn't gonna involve a public self-immolation but it'd be surprising if the Cena clip didn''t come up on the first JC podcast after this episode.

Mental illness is a hell of a thing, and the stories had a lot of blaring red flags of various things that were 'off' about how he was acting. Like some of his behavior sounded like people who were on something, but at the same time, he's bipolar, so.

Parts of the timeline were jumbled (looking at you, DDP, thinking that Mortis was quashed by the NWO). But it is what it is.

Next week is people unaware of the Dark Side of the FMW... and they'll be surprised by the Yakuza and a huge star getting paralyzed in the ring.

Re: NWO 

As far as I'm concerned, Page is very much correct in that if you look at much of 1996 (specifically the first half). WCW is like an entirely different company. The problem with the Blood Runs Cold and the whole fighting over the helmet or amulet or whatever the hell Glacier (and subsequently Ernest Miller later on) and Vandenberg's group were fighting over is it was very New Generation/1993-1995 WCW. So at best, they were 2-3 years behind. The matches as far as in ring work goes were fine to good. However, going by the direction of the way wrestling as whole going at the time all those characters came around, it was obvious that shit was going by the wayside pretty quickly. Go back and watch some of those matches. The crowd did not give a single solitary shit. In addition, you had the backstage politics of it. They could have dropped that stuff at anytime just so Hogan and Bischoff can do more promos at the top of the hour in an effort to beat Raw in the quarterly ratings or you get a million more NWO in fighting segments. And guess what? That's what eventually happened. As much as I thought the Mortis character was kinda cool looking, all that shit was archaic. If you're a guy like Chris Kanyon, you need to be attached to something hot or else you'll be doing enhancement matches on WCW Saturday Night and syndication TV like he was doing beforehand. The good thing for him was Raven, based on how the Flock turned into one or two guys he wanted (Saturn and IIRC probably Kidman) and a bunch of guys he didn't want (everyone else), and Page likely put in a good word for him and made him a part of that whole storyline. That saved his bacon. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaking of Raven, he seems like someone who could have maybe offered something for a few DSOTR episodes. For example he was of one unsuccessful lawsuit against the WWE with Kanyon, while also working with Kanyon during his emergence. Idk if he just wouldn’t offer anything or if DSOTR couldn’t track him down or make it work.

Anyways, Page or DSOTR told the story like Mortis was a thing when Hogan turned heel. It was more of the WCW midcard grind that impacted Kanyon for 97/98.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Anyways, Page or DSOTR told the story like Mortis was a thing when Hogan turned heel. It was more of the WCW midcard grind that impacted Kanyon for 97/98.

I think that was something that would take more than the 2 or 3 minutes they spent explaining it. Hell, they sped through his run as Kanyon in WCW and spent virtually no time on that. When you only have roughly 45 minutes, only so much you can do.

As far as midcard grind, there was a bunch of guys from 95-97 that had spots that didn't have spots in WCW come late 97-99. Some of that is natural cycling in and out of talent, but a good majority of that is the direction of wrestling. The first Blood Runs Cold promo was pre NWO. By the time Glacier actually debuts in September (!), the wheels had already been set in motion that would make stuff like that obsolete. If you're Kanyon who was in places like Smoky Mountain and doing jobs on WWF Superstars, other than WCW forgetting you're on the payroll, what's keeping you from going back to being just a regular indy guy or doing jobs on TV? You just joined a program that was already DOA when wrestling is going in the opposite direction (more "realistic", "edgier" worked shoot). In that era, they were bringing in guys for one offs and whatnot as basically a tryout. You go through many of those Observers from that time, it's guys basically begging to come in and get positions inside of WCW. The NWO played a huge part in setting the promotion afire (in more ways than one), and had all that quasi Mortal Kombat stuff been in 1994-95, they would have let that shit run its course (much like Hogan feuding with the Dungeon of Doom from October-November 1994 to spring 1996). Even the goddamn Dungeon of Doom had to make adjustments. It went from something out of a bad 80s B movie to a violent blood feud hinged on one of the boys fucking the guy who insiders kinda know is the booker's actual wife. That's a HELL of a turnaround in terms of being grounded in any type of reality. You cannot have that, the NWO, and then four random people fighting for an ancient mysterious helmet from Tibet. One of those things is not like the others. 😂

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Kanyon episode was sad, and the story of him calling Matt Jackson who had to talk him out of killing himself was pretty harrowing. Ultimately he came across as a guy with a lot of mental health issues and demons he couldn't beat unfortunately. I don't think anyone came out too badly. The chairshot from Undertaker was gross, but that was a small piece of the story and chairshots like that were still the norm back then. Not saying it wasn't shitty, but they didn't paint it as deliberately vindictive. Flair's comments made him look like an asshole and he probably didn't need to be so brutal about it, but he was just being honest about it. I thought the saddest thing was the email he wrote to Stephanie (the screenshot is floating around), you can tell the idea of being the first openly gay wrestler meant so much to him, but you do have to wonder if he would have been OK with it given how unstable he was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was mentioned by Bix on Twitter (yeah I know I know) that not only did he give him an unprotected chair shot to the head but it was with the back of the chair which is generally considered a huge no no .   Doesn't help their argument that there was nothing malicious about it

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't finish this episode yet but it's really personal to me. My brother (who used to host the aftershows for DSOTR) is also bipolar and has a HBO special about his mental health issues. It's a fucking nightmare to see the person I'm closest with in the world go through these difficulties and struggles. He's better now, but it's not like it goes away even with a good treatment plan. 

Bipolar is such a misunderstood disease. I'm also bipolar. There are a few different levels of bipolar. Bipolar 1 is the kind Kanyon had or what you see in TV movies -- the really wild manic swings and lengthy depressive episodes. I'm Bipolar II, which is different. I don't want to say "milder" but it doesn't come with suicide ideation or the manic episodes that last for a few weeks. It's a lot quicker, where I can get depressed for a few weeks at a time (the pandemic rules for that!) or hypomania, which is essentially an elevated mood with a lot of energy and irritability and makes me really hard to deal with. If you see some lengthy screed written on here at like 3 AM EST, that's why. The initial burst of hypomania is actually pretty helpful because I'm really productive and creative but then it becomes completely overwhelming very quickly. 

Anyways, I am very honest about my struggles with mental health. The stuff with Kanyon was awful because he felt like he had to hide his sexual identity on top of having his mental health issues. I learned going through what I go through that being honest about it helps me. And hopefully being honest and open about it makes the stigma of mental health issues slowly go away and makes it easier for people to get the help they need. 

If anyone on here needs to talk things through or find ways to get help, do not hesitate to reach out. I completely mean that. 

  • Like 18
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if I can finish this one. Like...It just breaks my heart so much and hits too close to home. 

Regarding James Mitchell and him being awesome, someone recently said that he's easily the nicest guy in the business and you would never think it because of him living the gimmick and all that.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...