Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


Recommended Posts

Finally watched it yesterday morning! First why is anyone surprised that an over 45 straight dude like Tommy Dreamer said what he said, they could have interviewed 50 guys who were on that plane and 75% would have said nearly the same thing as Dreamer, that type of toxic masculinity/misogyny isn't something reserved to old pro wrestlers it's still a huge part of our culture, hopefully more dudes have an RVD moment where they realize that kind of garbage is evil. 

Will anyone ever call out Jim Ross on his "I was following orders" or "boys will be boys" excuses? The "boys will be boys" bs is laughable since everyone on that plane was over 30.

The thing is we didn't even hear everything that happened since only one of the Flight Attendants told her story, had the other one been interviewed it seems that Dustin Rhodes would have gotten his AEW walking papers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim Ross was somewhat blessed to not be able to emote properly anymore. For a normal person it’s a horrible thing. For a carny it’s a tool.

Quote

Will anyone ever call out Jim Ross on his "I was following orders" or "boys will be boys" excuses? The "boys will be boys" bs is laughable since everyone on that plane was over 30.

But, over 30 year olds with three carts worth of booze. Yeah, you try calm down 300 pound roid monkeys hopped up on drugs, and liquor. Age doesn’t stop people acting in ways that cross boundaries.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jonathan Coachman also recently mentioned that Undertaker was directed to shoot rough him up during an in-ring angle because he'd refused to go to a mandatory completely voluntary Tribute to the Troops show.  Of course, years later, Taker and the guy who told him to beat up an employee are making a shit ton of money off the KSA.  So to reiterate:

Skipping out on bullshit post 9/11 performative patriotism: bad

Taking money from the country who literally bankrolled 9/11: no problem

Edited by Technico Support
  • Like 15
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Jim Ross was somewhat blessed to not be able to emote properly anymore. For a normal person it’s a horrible thing. For a carny it’s a tool.

But, over 30 year olds with three carts worth of booze. Yeah, you try calm down 300 pound roid monkeys hopped up on drugs, and liquor. Age doesn’t stop people acting in ways that cross boundaries.

It seems like he didn't even attempt to stop anything, sure he pulled the "what's going on back here" during the Brock-Hennig fight but it seems like he didn't care or didn't want to be inconvenienced with what was going on.

True age doesn't stop people from crossing boundaries but pricks like JR always use the "boys will be boys" as an excuse for their own inaction and to cover for "the boys", if he straight up said he was either afraid to do something or had no idea what to do I'd have a speck of respect for him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ross throwing up his hands and saying "it's not my job to make grown men not act like children" is annoying.  Professionally, I'm part of management.  There have been a few occasions when I've had to talk to one of my employees about something going on in their life outside of office hours.  it shouldn't be part of my job, but if it gets to the point where it's spilling over into the office in some fashion and affecting the firm, it's definitely part of my job.   

I don't want to judge Ross too much.  i wasn't there and sometimes there's only so much you can do.  Maybe he thought the situation was too far out of hand and beyond his ability to shut it down.  Maybe he was scares of the guys.  Who knows?  At some point, we all make the wrong decision and hopefully learn from it for next time. 

Fortunately, I've never had to deal with a flight from hell situation.  There have been a couple similar episodes in my firm years ago, but, thankfully, nothing I was a part of or had to deal with.  The few times I've had to stick my nose into personal matters, it's been simple stuff handled with a pleasant conversation. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm really curious about the show creators not getting into the other flight attendant's experience on the flight.  I assume she didn't want to be interviewed, but the court transcripts are out there.  As it stood, the show portrayed Dustin as a sappy, heartbroken lunkhead who saved Heidi Doyle from possible sexual assault but, as I mentioned, the other side of the story is that he rubbed his dick against the other attendant and sexually threatened her.  Maybe they didn't want to get into it regarding Dustin because he's turned things around and bettered himself while Ric Flair is still out there working his sexual predator loveable cad gimmick and living that life.  I have no idea but I'm curious as to why they only covered one attendant's story.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Maybe they didn't want to get into it regarding Dustin because he's turned things around and bettered himself while Ric Flair is still out there working his sexual predator loveable cad gimmick and living that life. 

I hate to be a cynic, but I'd be willing to bet you $10,000 or so that the producers could not care less about whether Dustin Rhodes has turned his life around or not.

Am I correct in assuming that all the stewardesses received settlement payouts and probably signed non-disclosure agreements that would prevent them from talking about that night?  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Eoae said:

Am I correct in assuming that all the stewardesses received settlement payouts and probably signed non-disclosure agreements that would prevent them from talking about that night?  

*flight attendants

I didn't list "NDA" as a possibility because I assumed, since the show featured one of the flight attendants who did sue and got a settlement, that there was no NDA.  I could be wrong, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Honestly, i wouldn't mind if people stopped cooperating with DSotR.  I feel like they've leaned hard into the tabloid trash aspect of the show.  Didn't feel like the first two seasons were as lurd/exploitative

I understand your thoughts here. But if you've heard any of the podcasts the DSotR guys have been on or watched any of those wrap around shows you can see they are huge wrestling fans. They definitely don't give off the vibe of explorative scumbags. They just seem like well meaning nerdy wrestling super fans. But that they also feel the need to tell the stories as factually as they can. So I don't agree with you. Don't think they are leaning into the trashiest elements of things. Think they are just using the answers they get and the narrative follows as close as they can construct to the truth from people's accounts.

But maybe I'm naive. I'll just say I hope they are well meaning, and not like your assessment of them.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mister TV said:

Will anyone ever call out Jim Ross on his "I was following orders" or "boys will be boys" excuses? The "boys will be boys" bs is laughable since everyone on that plane was over 30.

 

1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Ross throwing up his hands and saying "it's not my job to make grown men not act like children" is annoying.  Professionally, I'm part of management.  There have been a few occasions when I've had to talk to one of my employees about something going on in their life outside of office hours.  it shouldn't be part of my job, but if it gets to the point where it's spilling over into the office in some fashion and affecting the firm, it's definitely part of my job.   

I don't want to judge Ross too much.  i wasn't there and sometimes there's only so much you can do.  Maybe he thought the situation was too far out of hand and beyond his ability to shut it down.  Maybe he was scares of the guys.  Who knows?  At some point, we all make the wrong decision and hopefully learn from it for next time. 

Fortunately, I've never had to deal with a flight from hell situation.  There have been a couple similar episodes in my firm years ago, but, thankfully, nothing I was a part of or had to deal with.  The few times I've had to stick my nose into personal matters, it's been simple stuff handled with a pleasant conversation. 

Ross always seems to try to play the middle card.  While acknowledging that it was, in fact, his job, he also deflected and claimed that he only did what he was told to. That's not how it works. You either make talent decisions (regarding hiring, firing, punishments, etc.) or you don't. which is it?  Also, when asked about Ric Flair's lack of punishment, JR said that Flair was a "made man" and wondered aloud if that was right or not. YOU FUCKING ALREADY KNOW THAT'S NOT RIGHT. Fire him, fine him, take him off the road, send him to counseling/rehab, do SOMETHING. Just ignoring it and letting that behavior continue is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT. 

I know Vince is ultimately the one true boss, but if your VP of TR is letting shit like this happen, he needs severe repercussions. In any normal company, Ric Flair, Dustin, and numerous other people would have been fired as soon as they landed. Ross would also have consequences for letting that go on while he was there. Fuck that old time "boys will be boys" mentality. 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I understand your thoughts here. But if you've heard any of the podcasts the DSotR guys have been on or watched any of those wrap around shows you can see they are huge wrestling fans. They definitely don't give off the vibe of explorative scumbags. They just seem like well meaning nerdy wrestling super fans. But that they also feel the need to tell the stories as factually as they can. So I don't agree with you. Don't think they are leaning into the trashiest elements of things. Think they are just using the answers they get and the narrative follows as close as they can construct to the truth from people's accounts.

But maybe I'm naive. I'll just say I hope they are well meaning, and not like your assessment of them.

To be fair, I've never watched the podcasts or the After Dark (Talking Dark? Whatever it called) segments.  I know next to nothing about the creative team.  One of the dudes apparently directed Hobo with a Shotgun.  Not sure if that's an endorsement or not.

I'm under the impression that the flight attendants got money from an out-of-court settlement.  If that's the case, there are probably NDA's attached.  I could be wrong.  Don't know much about the story aside from what was in the show.  If they went to court and won a judgement, there probably is not a NDA in effect.  Actually, I was wondering if the flight attendant they interviewed just decided she wanted to speak out and could afford to return the money.    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think like with any television documentary you have to accept that there's always a narrative and agenda. It's dangerous to immediately accept what's shown on screen as thoroughly factual. 

It's why I'm turned off on a lot of the Netflix true crime docs where they attempt to exonerate or cast doubt on someone's guilt but then you read deeper into it and realize that the person is probably guilty but the prosecution or police didn't/couldn't cooperate with the doc or after twenty years and the ways memory fades it's easy to cast doubt. 
 

I mean, I like Dark Side but the Moolah episode was heavily criticized. For what it's worth, Leaping Lanny has said the Savage episode is full of errors. The Gage episode was basically treated as light-hearted fun and you can definitely adjust that narrative to show him in a much worse light. The Pillman episode, which was ultimately optimistic, was probably easier on Pillman's decisions than they could  have been. 

 

There's already pushback on this episode about whether Vince and Linda were on the flight and whether there was a settlement or not so I'd be careful to accept any episode of this show as the total truth on an issue, especially things decades old. 

 

 

Edited by Hagan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, twiztor said:

 

Ross always seems to try to play the middle card. 

 

Yes, exactly.  Borrowing this from reddit, quoting Ross when asked whether WWE ever told women to get implants:

Quote

Nope. Sure didn't. Didn't step in that territory. Now if they needed time off or some money to help, then we had done those types of things, but that was always based on the talent's decision."

Come on dude. 

So they never told women to get implants.  They just paid for them, gave the women who got them time off to recover, and gave better pushes to the women who did.  Got it.

Great, now I'm grossed out imagining women who want to get ahead and make more money having to go to beg Horny Grandpa JR for some titty money.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We see how JR would phrase things in Beyond the Mat so that he didn’t explicitly tell a young guy to get on the gas if they wanted a serious look from the company. You don’t even to have to be that smart to wrestling to read between the lines. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

JR generally strikes me as about as subtle as a Monty Python skit.  if we're not supposed to insert "nudge nudge wink wink" into most of his statements about breast implants, working through injuries, steroids, etc., I don't know what to say.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The producer mentioned on JC’s podcast that they were trying to investigate the whole “Vince on the plane” issue. He basically said just about everyone said Vince was on the plane, so they figured he was on it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim Ross has thoroughly shown himself to be pretty reprehensible person for years. The way he worked fans into thinking he's some good guy mistreated by his employers is pretty toxic, even if WWE was frequently an asshole to him. 

I thought Meltzer had a pretty thoughtful conversation on this episode on the early Saturday morning WOR. I mean it's all in Meltzer-English but what can ya do. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...