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The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


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At least the producer guy seemed to actually give a shit about Chyna, her manager and the documentary director didn't care at all. Fuck both of those guys.

Definitely didn't realize she made her WWF debut in Tennessee, though. That's cool.

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Yeah he clearly saw through the bullshit and I think probably had a bit of an affair with her at the time. The director admitted he was on smack the whole time and that manager... phew. Clearly he thought "I can ride this crazy bitch to the bank", feeding her all kinds of quasi spiritual bullshit and offering her no real help. And then this guy steals a quarter of her ashes and uses them in a phony memorial service, put in a bedazzled urn? That's so far over the line it must be on Pluto.

Really what the whole documentary explained was that this poor woman was just used over and over and over and she let it happen because she had no self esteem and needed attention. In another life she would have had a tidy job as a music teacher in a high school somewhere, but she got into... *sigh*... wrestling.

Edited by Curt McGirt
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I found it all to be completely heartbreaking. She clearly needed people who cared about her and kept finding all of these leeches that eventually bled her dry.

The whole thing was like watching her fall down a stairwell in slow motion, knowing there's nothing you can do to stop what the end is, but wishing there was some way you could just reach out to her and stop her from falling. At least to me, anyway.

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3 hours ago, Casey said:

At least the producer guy seemed to actually give a shit about Chyna

Yeah, although I wonder how much of that is revisionist history.  It didn't really seem like he did much except talk (to the camera?) about getting her help.  It seems like he's second-guessing stuff like the wait-a-week-for-the-celebrity-intervention bs publicly but went along with it at the time.  Maybe that's not fair and he tried to get her help but didn't get any cooperation, but even his version of events made it seem like he was a passive observer.  

I do wonder how "real" the narrative pushed by the film is.  I hate to be cynical but the director (of the Vice documentary, not the meth head who was directing the Reconstruction of Chyna) purposely edited the film to present her side of the story and the film was authorized by her estate (presumably why the family cooperated).  So it's probably debatable how objective it is.  There's been accounts out there over the years that made her out to be less sympathetic and more of a toxic personality who took down everyone around her.  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  From what Meltzer and others have said, people did try to help her and she rejected their offers and eventually chased them off until the people left around her were the sleazy users and enablers.

Sad story no matter how you look at it.  She seemed amazingly f***ed up in some of those clips (the Stern show, especially).

Edited by Eoae
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I mean, by the producer's own admission he was only involved because he was a fan of Chyna and he got the director guy and her manager to meet (and that's where the documentary idea was born). The director was also funding the entire film, so it's not like producer guy had much of any leverage. I also don't know what you mean by the narrative or whatever. The thing you mentioned about Meltzer is basically directly confirmed in the VICE special, with her sister telling the story of taking her to rehab and then Chyna walking out and never speaking to her again. She was likely manipulated by her manager when it came to the situation with her mother and her not wanting to see her daughter for the first time in 30 some odd years on camera. She cut ties with her too - again.

I don't think this paints a "sympathetic" picture of Chyna, but it also doesn't demonize her for having substance abuse problems.

And it's weird that you think they edited a documentary, that was literally about "reconstructing" the image of Chyna, to only show her side of the story. Well, that's fucking obvious. It's like saying DDP and the Accountability House crew edited their doc about Jake the Snake to only show his side of the story, instead of... whoever else. What other story is there to tell besides Chyna's?

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All documentaries present a biased view. All of them. As soon as someone starts editing interviews and footage, it begins to present a viewpoint. I’m not making an argument that this one has a good/bad viewpoint.  I’m just saying that all documentaries are, by their nature, not objective. 

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It happens before that. Even the presence of cameras, the knowledge that behaviour is being observed, changes behaviour.

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Rolling Stone's website (I think) had a piece called the Last Days of Chyna that was pretty much her being obsessed about once being famous, plus I once had a tape put out by WWF that had interviews and behind the scenes footage of the late 90's divas Chyna, Sunny, Sable. Chyna talked about wanting to be a "star", just kinda being famous was the be all end all for her. I really feel she had an unhealthy focus on the idea of fame. I really wish she could have just walked away from wrestling, should could have had a pretty good life running a gym, being a fitness influence, doing conventions ect.

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Apparently Matt Hardy said that he was asked to be a part of the Plane Ride From Hell episode but declined due to not wanting to say bad things about people he still had a good relationship with

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Dynamite Kid documentary was another tough watch. After hearing about his back, it's a big reason why it irks me when fans get vocally annoyed about the crash pad for McIntyre or the gimmicked boxes for Jericho's fall in Blood & Guts. 

Some of the ribbing and steroid stories Spivey had there sounded truly nasty. Also, using steroid syringes as darts in hotel rooms. 

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I just remembered this documentary from 2005 or so. It features Chyna, New Jack, Sean O'Haire, and a number of people who are still alive (Psicosis, DDP, Rikishi, and Vampior). There's not much of an overall story, just interviews and whatnot. The former Major Gunns saying she was getting better ratings than Goldberg got a good laugh.

 

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Something else that bothered me about the Dynamite Kid episode. Aside from the horrific things he did to his family, I'm a little bothered by how they framed that Rougeau/Dynamite Kid incident. Dynamite Kid feels he was disrespected because Rougeau is arrogant and cocky, and they had to go to a time limit draw. So he blindsides him and criminally assaults him while he's playing cards with Mr. Perfect. So, Rougeau gets either a roll of quarters or brass knuckles and knocks Dynamite Kid's front teeth out. Then apparently he got Dino Bravo to stooge the mafia thing to Dynamite Kid. That part I'm not sure about. And then Dave Meltzer and the commentators are like, "Rougeau got his respect back, Dynamite didn't get his."

The documentary seemed to frame Rougeau as the bad guy in that whole ordeal and took things too far. Generally, I put most of the blame on WWE for allowing garbage like this to go on and letting the boys try to police themselves. But Rougeau gave Dynamite Kid a receipt for criminally assaulting him in the back while he was playing cards with Mr. Perfect.  Why is that Rougeau's fault? 

Do I feel bad and have some sympathy for Dynamite Kid? On a human level yes. He was likely lashing out because he was suffering from head trauma, side effects from drug use, roid rage, and just the pain and agony his body was in. But I feel far worse for what his family was put through, and the wrestlers he and Davey Boy Smith abused in the name of "ribbing." Lance Storm made some good points about the Pillman one. It's kind of hard to feel bad for Pillman when you see how was treating the mother of his children. Storm also points out that had Rougeau not used the mafia story, what else Dynamite Kid would've done in retaliation. At least the mafia story got it to stop.

 

Edited by TheVileOne
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As i mentioned before, Jacques has been a number of shows and explained the story in great detail (like 20-30 minutes). At least he did on the Studcast. Prob more in depth than youd get in most other places. 

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Generally, I put most of the blame on WWE for allowing garbage like this to go on and letting the boys try to police themselves.

I was watching the Roddy Piper doc again this morning for lack of anything else being on and Vince said something to the extent of "back in those days, sometimes you just settled things with fist fights. That's just the way it was", like that was okay. Insinuating that him and Roddy got into physical altercations over angles and matches as well. Not like this is any news, just felt like pointing that out. Boys will be boys, right? Right...?

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9 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Lance Storm made some good points about the Pillman one. It's kind of hard to feel bad for Pillman when you see how was treating the mother of his children. 

Lance picked apart the Pillman doc rather easily because, yeah, the stories I remember hearing back then about Pillman indicated he liked a good time and would f*** anything that moved.  I thought Dark Side of the Ring treated him with kid gloves when it came to the topic of his infidelity.  As Lance points out, Pillman was married and supposedly happy when he saw photos of Melanie in Penthouse, and decided he wanted to meet/sleep with/marry her.  

I mean, that says a lot about how he viewed his wife and kids, and relationships in general.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Lance picked apart the Pillman doc rather easily because, yeah, the stories I remember hearing back then about Pillman indicated he liked a good time and would f*** anything that moved.  I thought Dark Side of the Ring treated him with kid gloves when it came to the topic of his infidelity.  As Lance points out, Pillman was married and supposedly happy when he saw photos of Melanie in Penthouse, and decided he wanted to meet/sleep with/marry her.  

I mean, that says a lot about how he viewed his wife and kids, and relationships in general.

 

 

It did treat him with kid gloves and also the incident where he took custody of his daughter away from her mother who later committed suicide. The documentary glosses over that Pillman was voluntary complicit in that act as well. Yes, Pillman's wife (Brian Jr.'s mom) is rightfully demonized for that incident, but Pillman seemed to go right along with it too.

It was hard for me to "like" Pillman as a human being after watching that documentary. And it does seem like his kids and family members sort of excuse or overlook this behavior.

Edited by TheVileOne
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6 hours ago, Eoae said:

Lance picked apart the Pillman doc rather easily because, yeah, the stories I remember hearing back then about Pillman indicated he liked a good time and would f*** anything that moved.  I thought Dark Side of the Ring treated him with kid gloves when it came to the topic of his infidelity.  As Lance points out, Pillman was married and supposedly happy when he saw photos of Melanie in Penthouse, and decided he wanted to meet/sleep with/marry her.  

I mean, that says a lot about how he viewed his wife and kids, and relationships in general.

 

 

He was on the road with a different woman while he was married to Melanie too.

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You know what?  This is a tough one for me. I think of myself as an average-looking guy at best. Not terrible-looking by any means but not a member of the Stud Stable either. If I had good looks and had attractive women throwing themselves all over me on a constant basis it would be tough to tell them no. Even if I was married(which was probably his biggest "mistake" with his lifestyle). I guess I'm saying I can see why Pillman was the way he was. Does that make me a terrible person? Quite possibly. 

Edited by Peck
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19 hours ago, ka-to said:

He was on the road with a different woman while he was married to Melanie too.

The thing that blows my mind is that Pillman basically looked at a chick in a "nudie" magazine and decided she was worth jettisoning his wife and kids for.  I can somewhat understand, but not condone, falling into a relationship and feeling there was a real connection there.  I still think that, before you actually cheat, you should just admit your wife isn't the one for you and get out of the marriage first.

I can't imagine just deciding to risk my marriage and family to chase a photo.  I mean, what could you know about the person except that they look good naked?  I guess people do that, but it says a lot that they're willing to humiliate your spouse and possibly damage your kids for a woman you might never meet and may not like or be attracted to if you do.

Edit: For the record, I've been married 26+ years.  I'm not a prude.  I've looked at Playboy some and porn once in a while, and I do notice attractive women.  Never had an urge to actually sleep with any of them or pursue any sort of romantic relationship (I do have female friends).

Edited by Eoae
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