Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Nice Guy Eddie

The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

Recommended Posts

On 4/17/2019 at 11:49 PM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 I'd take Cornette's word over Russo, but it's wrestling. Everybody is a carny. 

I would take the president's word over Russo. That Vice even talked to that shit stain is enough to make me stay away.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They only talked to him after the fact because Cornette brought him up, which he points out in the doc. So honestly they may have felt the same way about him as you but decided "this is too stupid not to milk for what it's worth". 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Victator said:

I would take the president's word over Russo. That Vice even talked to that shit stain is enough to make me stay away.

A. The President

B. Russo

C. None of the above

I'll take Option C.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For what it is worth - Meltzer is raving about the Von Erich doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

For what it is worth - Meltzer is raving about the Von Erich doc

Can't wait to see that one and how it compliments the Legends of World Class and the WWE doc as well 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a little late but I enjoyed the heck out of the WCCW doc by WWE and Kevin. They nailed alot of stuff they’d never touched before on that one and not just the Von Erichs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking forward to the Gino Hernandez one. I assume that's his mother that says "I know my son was murdered." in the trailer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me too. If the Von Erichs one is good then the Gino one should be the real deal.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't mind the Savage one outside of the Linda Hogan appearances. The Montreal one was terrible. Brody one was sad AF.

How many of those carney fucks ended up going back there to work PR after Brody's murder anyway? I remember Foley wrote about feeling shameful about shaking Invader's hand not long after, but I don't buy it. Carney wrestling-Michael Moore.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Didn't mind the Savage one outside of the Linda Hogan appearances. The Montreal one was terrible. Brody one was sad AF.

How many of those carney fucks ended up going back there to work PR after Brody's murder anyway? I remember Foley wrote about feeling shameful about shaking Invader's hand not long after, but I don't buy it. Carney wrestling-Michael Moore.

I don't think Tony Atlas worked in Puerto Rico after that. I know Abby and Dutch Mantell did.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
I'm probably wrong about Atlas, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Didn't mind the Savage one outside of the Linda Hogan appearances. The Montreal one was terrible. Brody one was sad AF.

How many of those carney fucks ended up going back there to work PR after Brody's murder anyway? I remember Foley wrote about feeling shameful about shaking Invader's hand not long after, but I don't buy it. Carney wrestling-Michael Moore.

Depends on which group of carneys you mean (if it's the ones interviewed or the larger group of people that were there that weekend), but in the case of the three interviewed for the episode the answer would be all three of them. Even Atlas.

Abdullah was a mainstay throughout the rest of his career.

Dutch, who was working a quick shot that particular weekend, would work the Aniversario 88 show about a month and a half later. He'd stay away for about 5 years but be back around late 93 to 94 and be more or less a mainstay in Puerto Rico for the next ten years 

Atlas is a bit of a different case than Abdullah and Dutch. He again worked for WWC on the Aniversario 2000 and 2010 shows many years after the incident. What's interesting is that he wrestled Dutch on the 2000 show, a card that also featured Invader 1 and Carlos Colon.  But Atlas did make a return to Puerto Rico earlier than that, he wrestled on the AWF's 1992 anniversary show. Well, that is if you ignore the possibility that Atlas may have actually wrestled on the July 24 card for WWC in 1988. The card ad in the newspaper is out there and it lists Atlas vs. Dick Slater as one of the matches. Card ad would have gone to press late in the week, so there would have been plenty of time to scratch Atlas from it if he indeed had left the island on Sunday night. Dutch is listed on the ad for the July 17 show and there's a good chance that he was coming in to do the shot as a replacement for Rufus R. Jones, so the lineup could have been changed midweek before sending it to press. In the Observers of that time, there's mention of Slater coming in to do the weekend shot with the mention that there were some wrestlers telling him not to go. Then the following issue mentions that there was heat on Slater for working the shot, so that does indicate that Slater worked the show. And in a 1992 Observer issue where the AWF card is mentioned, it does make note that outside of one show, this would be Atlas' first time wrestling in Puerto Rico since the stabbing. If that's the case, that Atlas did wrestle one more show post stabbing, then it points to it likely being the July 24 card. Like I said, it's only a possibility that he worked that date, but if something were to turn up that actually substantiates that he did work that show...

As for the others on the card, most everyone wrestled again in Puerto Rico for WWC within the next few years. The Youngbloods would work through the end of July before leaving, but would return in March of 89 on the exact same card Invader 1 had his first match back. Bobby Jaggers stayed through the first week of January of 89 before leaving. Dan Kroffat stuck around through March of 89. The Wild Samoans worked various shots throughout the rest of 88. Ron Starr worked through mid August, came back in November to turn face and would be in and out over the next few years. Pogo and Nagasaki stuck around, Muta worked through the first half of August before moving on. Buddy Landel stuck around for awhile, Dan Spivey worked the Aniversario 88 show as well as a couple of others after it.

I think pretty much Dory Funk Jr. and Invader 2 were the ones that didn't immediately come back (Dory wrestled Carlos in 2005 and Invader 2 reappeared about 7 or 8 years after this), although I'm not completely sure in Dory's case. I know at least Terry Funk did come back in October of 88 and the Aniversario 93 show (even if he claims now that he never came back), although Terry wasn't in Puerto Rico the night of the stabbing. 

You know who else wasn't in Puerto Rico that night and wrestled afterwards for WWC (on the Aniversario 88 show no less)? The Iron Sheik. If you saw the episode you know why I'm mentioning this.

Even Kerry and Kevin Von Erich worked shots for WWC in 1989.

Edited by El Boricua
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you saw the depths Tony had sunk to in that MTV doc, you know why he went: he needed the money.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

If you saw the depths Tony had sunk to in that MTV doc, you know why he went: he needed the money.

I was going to say that life never goes as we expect and we all make compromises to live. Using terms like "carny" is (I hate this term) markish. It is also very dehumanizing to them. I don't think anyone working in Puerto Rico was there first choice. But at the end of the day we have to take care of ourselves. These men had families to consider.

I'm not sure Brody would have stopped working for WWC if this happened to someone else. 

When you are a plumber you are going to have to deal with shit and I think a lot of wrestlers are plumber at heart. 

Obviously I am not referring to guys like Onita trying to exploit it. That is beyond the pale, 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's always the story that Onita was really trying to set up a Yakuza revenge murder instead.

I like that story. I think it's probably bullshit but it's a good story.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

If you saw the depths Tony had sunk to in that MTV doc, you know why he went.

Yeah, those bbq wings did not look juicy.

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

If you saw the depths Tony had sunk to in that MTV doc, you know why he went: he needed the money.

I wonder if anyone ever let Tony use their "cella phone".

  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2019 at 6:35 PM, Curt McGirt said:

If you saw the depths Tony had sunk to in that MTV doc, you know why he went: he needed the money.

True, which is why I mentioned that Atlas is a different case from Abdullah and Dutch. Post 1988, he worked one show per decade and the first one was for WWC's competitor. The question being asked was who went back, not why they went back. In most of these cases I'd wager that needing  money was the primary motivator. Heck, that would be, the primary motivator before and after what happened, pro wrestling is a business after all. Neither Atlas nor anyone else who came here because it was their option to make money should be lambasted for it, as Victator mentions and you also allude with your post, you have to make a living. And Atlas appears to not have bad thoughts about Puerto Rico as a place (setting aside that horrible weekend through whenever it was he left).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvwOANnb3w4

On 4/29/2019 at 10:08 PM, Victator said:

I was going to say that life never goes as we expect and we all make compromises to live. Using terms like "carny" is (I hate this term) markish. It is also very dehumanizing to them. I don't think anyone working in Puerto Rico was there first choice. But at the end of the day we have to take care of ourselves. These men had families to consider.

I'm not sure Brody would have stopped working for WWC if this happened to someone else. 

When you are a plumber you are going to have to deal with shit and I think a lot of wrestlers are plumber at heart. 

Obviously I am not referring to guys like Onita trying to exploit it. That is beyond the pale,

I understand where you're coming from with regards to the word "carny", there is a connotation to the word. And we are in complete agreement, there is nothing wrong in taking care of you and yours given the options available, as long as it's not directly harming someone else. The wrestlers that stayed or came back did so because they likely felt it was either their best option, their only option, or because they actually felt it was simply a good place for them work (contrary to what some may say or lead you to believe when this subject comes up, this isn't a totally corrupt hellscape where they'll harvest your body parts on the street). You can tell that the grief some of these guys got from others for continuing to work or come back bothered them, Bobby Jaggers being a good example based on interviews he gave. That part we agree is dehumanizing to them and is not something that is fair to them.

But going back to "carny" for a bit, in a business that is built on deception as a means to make money, I feel that the term can apply to some of the guys in question. Not for working there or going back to wrestle, but for the way they present the subject when it's brought up. It strikes me a bit as having your cake and eating it too.  For the people that take that tact, I think that the shoe fits in those cases. Some guys can't turn of the switch.

The same example you give about Brody likely not stopping to work for the company has been mentioned by some wrestlers as well, and would seem to fit based on what we know about Brody.

We are in agreement about people trying to exploit what happened as being beyond the pale. You mention Onita as a good example, another one that isn't mentioned  usually for this point is Victor Quiñones.

9 hours ago, Tromatagon said:

There's always the story that Onita was really trying to set up a Yakuza revenge murder instead.

I like that story. I think it's probably bullshit but it's a good story.

Who knows what the real story here is, but my favorite detail about Onita's trip to try to set this up is Onita trying to no avail to find a doctor that would stitch him up for the photos and being turned away because the wound didn't warrant it. He finally found one that did it, likely so that Onita would quit bothering him. I've heard two versions of the whole Onita saga (one is the one Savio tells, the other is from another local's account) and, whether the Yakuza revenge murder angle is real or not, locally they must have been warned by someone that it was a possibility since apparently Invader was at the airport to take the flight to Japan when the call came in warning him not to go. Savio in his version says it was him or him and Quiñones that gave the warning, the other version mentions it was someone else. Like many things about the whole  ordeal, who knows what the reality is. The only things you can be sure are that you shouldn't believe any of these accounts completely, while there are things that are true, there are also many things that don't add up, contradict each other, are straight up fabrications and/or self serving BS. I could list all of the things I find to fall into the second category that were mentioned in the episode, but ultimately, it doesn't change what happened (regardless of the circumstances that caused it). 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the Von Erich episode is great. And I hated almost every minute of it. Jesus fucking Christ. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Von Erichs one is the best so far even though it's a story we all know almost by heart by now.

Kevin talking about his dad pointed a gun at him saying "You'd kill yourself if you had the guts" and Kevin havin to run away because he could tell his father was thinking about pulling the trigger was fucked up.  Especially when he finished the story by saying how much he loved his dad.  Fucking gut punch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the Gino one is really the only one I want to see, since it has new stuff in it. And it's not been well trod ground like the others. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

Von Erichs one is the best so far even though it's a story we all know almost by heart by now.

Kevin talking about his dad pointed a gun at him saying "You'd kill yourself if you had the guts" and Kevin havin to run away because he could tell his father was thinking about pulling the trigger was fucked up.  Especially when he finished the story by saying how much he loved his dad.  Fucking gut punch.

Kevin saying he looked in his Fritz eyes and knew his dad was gone hit me too. I can't comprehend how alone Kevin feels. He does have a wife and adult sons. But those ghosts never go away. Reminding you that life will never be right again. That all you can do is lie and put a smile on. Hoping if you say you are okay long enough, that one day it will be true.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/30/2019 at 1:07 PM, Tromatagon said:

There's always the story that Onita was really trying to set up a Yakuza revenge murder instead.

I like that story. I think it's probably bullshit but it's a good story.

It might be bullshit, but Onita is such a crazy mf that it has the ring of truth to it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Dave, that episode was incredible. Even after two full-length documentaries you still find out stuff you never knew, and some stuff that was just crushing -- the anecdote about trying to steal the gun was the one that gut-punched me. Not to mention 

Spoiler

Kevin not realizing Chris had shot himself until he STUCK HIS FINGER IN THE HOLE IN HIS HEAD HOLY FUCKING SHIT

To see Kevin, even looking like he has cancer, happy in Hawaii with his family is a miracle on an unprecedented level. And I wish the best for the kids. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, the most interesting story with the Von Erichs has always been Kevin. Sole survivor living in Hawaii with the love of his life and still giving his sons the blessing to be wrestlers even after all he's been through. It's the least expected story of all time.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...