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The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


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9 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

They need to do an episode, or somebody needs to do an episode, about what killed WCW the product and there has to be a rule that you can’t talk about the merger. Everybody either cops out to the merger with or without a little Ted Turner standards and practices damage control first for 1 reason or another. Certain wrestlers and hands on in charge people obviously don’t want to say anything about how they were a reason and dumbass fans always try to sound smart and use the word merger because it’s a big word to them. We all know about the merger. That’s not what anybody is asking when they ask what killed WCW. If it were then that’s the answer and nobody would still be talking about it.

When people ask who killed WCW they’re asking who or what fucked it up from what it had became in 1995 on through 1997. They’re asking why it started to suck and who was responsible for it. The only reason to even bring up Ted Turner would be to explain that it only survived for as long as it did after its peak because he crapped money and liked it. The same can be said for all the time before WCW’s peak. 

YES.  You know what executives like?  Making money.  Execs loved WCW when it was hot and making money.  The same execs wanted it to go...when it became a low-rated money pit.  This is an oversimplification but still, what killed WCW was anything that led to the on-screen product being shit and losing eyeballs.  Once that happened, execs couldn't tolerate WCW anymore. 

Blaming standards and practices is bullshit, too.  Oh, WCW failed because you couldn't call women bitches or run Beaver Cleavage gimmicks?  Do tell.

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58 minutes ago, hammerva said:

Also if the first show is an indication, I expect we will see more of Bischoff and probably others bitch about "online wrestling media".   I am sure there is a Meltzer rant somewhere in this show.    

I think this show starting with making online wrestling fans fake-complaining (or they could have dug up real quotes) means the show is pretty much predicated on it. (Someone's online handle being "bullshit" is telling.) I'm sure we will get lots of different opinions but that's a pretty specific thing to point out immediately. It won't be nice or fair, anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Oh, WCW failed because you couldn't call women bitches or run Beaver Cleavage gimmicks?  Do tell.

I mean, if only WCW could have booked Scott Steiner to stalk women and call them hoochies or put Stacy Keibler up on a table to dance in a short skirt. Then they would have been able to compete! 

But that stuff never happened thanks to S&P. 

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"Fall of WCW" is up there with Montreal for things I just don't want to hear about anymore. It's been done to death. Are there really going to be any new insights from this series?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

YES.  You know what executives like?  Making money.  Execs loved WCW when it was hot and making money.  The same execs wanted it to go...when it became a low-rated money pit.  This is an oversimplification but still, what killed WCW was anything that led to the on-screen product being shit and losing eyeballs.  Once that happened, execs couldn't tolerate WCW anymore. 

Blaming standards and practices is bullshit, too.  Oh, WCW failed because you couldn't call women bitches or run Beaver Cleavage gimmicks?  Do tell.

Not really an oversimplification since that's pretty much how capitalism works.
 

I really hope it mentions what a complete pain in the ass WCW was for the Turner people who had to deal with a lot of the day to day stuff, your either dealing with the carniest of carnies or unrepentant racists who piss out their office window.

 

Edited by Mister TV
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1 hour ago, Log said:

"Fall of WCW" is up there with Montreal for things I just don't want to hear about anymore. It's been done to death. Are there really going to be any new insights from this series?

They got Guy Evans to be a talking head and a few of the Turner execs who were interviewed for Evans's book, and that book had useful info in it, so I think for the many viewers who didn't read Evans's book, the answer is that there will be new insights. 

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There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

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21 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

Don't all big companies with tons of divisions and subsidiaries do that kind of thing? You can't blame "accounting" for all the money they lost the last few years, they had crazy expenses, low ad revenue, low ppv buy rates and low live gate revenue, sure those numbers could be moved around but the people high up making decisions are seeing the real numbers and those numbers were really bad.

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I think what pisses me off the most is that is that Bischoff, every week, incessantly, talks about how wrestling shows to be successful need storylines with a three act structure. And how having matches for the sake of having good matches is dumb.

Oh? Do tell! Exactly what fucking storylines did Bischoff structure a 3 act storyline around in WCW or TNA? Maybe they did that once? Twice? WCW weekly was a total shitshow. The one thing they had was nWo doing something nutty and Schiavone going WE’RE OUT OF TIME! None of that is a three act storyline. He’s so full of bullshit that it’s all he is. And there were never random ass matches thrown together on Nitro just for the sake of having good matches? There were hardly any storylines for the lucha guys. They were there to present something exciting and different than what WWF was showing.

So when I see him continuously get air time on these things talking like an expert that really lucked into having a southern money mark give him a ton of money for Hogan and Nitro and everything else and completely ignore how WCW had nothing that he constantly preaches about is so frustrating. Dude is the Dr. Oz of wrestling.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Oh? Do tell! Exactly what fucking storylines did Bischoff structure a 3 act storyline around in WCW or TNA?

Oh yeah, Sting feeling slighted by his friends so he sat on the sidelines forever, then attacking the baddies vigilante-style for months, then getting his "revenge" in the most unsatisfying fashion imaginable, THEN being stripped of the title like a week later?  That's some real Joseph Campbell shit there.

Edited by Technico Support
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4 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

There was a certain amount of money being moved around the Turner empire that makes discerning profits and losses harder, right?

like in some of the best years, they were making a profit because some of their expenses were in another part of the company. And in some of the bad years, the successes weren’t under their name but a lot of losses were

Yes. Things like Turmer Home Entertainment getting $ instead of WCW. 
 

From the start, Turner people didn’t want or like wrestling. It lucked into a couple good years  and when that ended, they went back to wanting it gone, 

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It’s a shame because for that just over a year period of time that the luchas did have storylines, it was 2 straight hours of fun every Monday. Mike Tenay as the lucha guy, the cruiserweight title being treated like the Holy Grail, the lucha rules matches that were treated like such a big deal, etc. La Parka the Chairman of WCW was the best fun type of midcarder for a hot minute. 

WCW’s accounting junk has been discussed many times. All big companies do it yes. Heck I kinda do it lol! I don’t care what some accounting book says. Seats went empty in the arenas, ratings went down and buyrates went down. And that’s just the basics. They had all those guaranteed contracts and more and more guys just up and taking time off and just all kinds of nightmares. None of that is the real question though like we’ve said. 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2024 at 2:57 PM, Curt McGirt said:

I always had the feeling Konnan would be cool in real life but the only thing good he ever did in wrestling was manage LAX.

He was also Mickey to Prince Puma's Rocky 

This was a pretty fun first episode. I've read everyone book on the subject (Death of WCW, Nitro, Controversy creates cash) but I'm still interested

Edited by zendragon
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On 6/6/2024 at 7:57 AM, Curt McGirt said:

I always had the feeling Konnan would be cool in real life but the only thing good he ever did in wrestling was manage LAX.

he gave us that rap video, which led to the Disco Inferno parody.  possibly the high point of both their careers.

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2 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I have seen neither. Please provide!

Wait wait...you haven't seen Oil of Olay all day, everyday?!

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14 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

...no. If you asked me what that is without context I would be baffled.

We've had this discussion a few times. This is one I could find.

https://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10115-november-2022-wrestling-discussion/&do=findComment&comment=1260266

Said parody:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDSUD0by7x0

AFAIK it's not on the network version of the Nitro episode it's from. 

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Something I totally forgot is there was a SECOND NWO parody of the Four Horseman right around the time of this Disco Konnan parody. Now you wanna talk about painfully unfunny....that's on a whole different level cause it went on forever. 

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

It needs to be viewed:

In context 

And having read CRZ's recap of it. 

Disco being openly confused by everything Konnan's been saying for the six months leading up to the OIL OF OLAY video really is what drives the joke home. 

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