AxB Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Having Bart Gunn fight his co workers was one thing. Having him fight Butterbean at Mania, that's quite another. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, AxB said: Having Bart Gunn fight his co workers was one thing. Having him fight Butterbean at Mania, that's quite another. Yeah, I didn't even consider that. They put an untrained fighter in the ring with a guy who had been fighting pro, with a good record, for five years. Edited July 25, 2019 by Technico Support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Butterbean was a novelty, but a novelty who hurt people really badly. Dangerous shit putting a guy who had an amateur career how many years ago in a freak fight like that. Saying that is definitely hypocritical because I love Pride/Rizin freak fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Brawl for All also shows why the business is a work. It was designed to put over Dr Death and heat him up for a feud with Austin. Oops. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 8 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Brawl for All also shows why the business is a work. It was designed to put over Dr Death and heat him up for a feud with Austin. Oops. JR's blind love for all things Oklahoma Sooners got him worked into a shoot. Jock sniffer was so starstruck by Doc he legit believed the guy could win any fight with anyone. Anything can happen in a real fight. They should have just had BFA be all real fights but have guys take a dive against Doc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) They should have just said fuck it, left the rules as originally intended, and let Blackman beat everyone. Edited July 25, 2019 by Eivion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Wasn't Dan Severn in the BfA? I think he was. Beat someone and then withdrew for reasons unclear. I know Ken Shamrock wasn't, even though he was with the company at the time. You'd think he'd have been a favourite, considering how he destroyed the entire Gracie family legacy with a single punch and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) I think I watched the Gunn/Kama and Gunn/Bradshaw matches again last year. The Bradshaw result was extremely pleasing. 15 hours ago, Technico Support said: Yeah, I didn't even consider that. They put an untrained fighter in the ring with a guy who had been fighting pro, with a good record, for five years. I think he went missing from TV for months after winning the tournament specifically to train for Butterbean. However, putting this into context, you had people like Mark Gastineau doing worked fights in boxing all the time. Then he fought ALONZO HIGHSMITH of all people in 1996 in Japan and looked terrible. On the same card, you had post HIV diagnosis Tommy Morrison. IIRC Meltzer covered those worked fights in the Observer at the time. At the same time, that's when Bob Arum, Don King, and others were cribbing pro wrestling a little and throwing people like Christy Martin, Mia St. John, and Butterbean on PPV main cards in glorified mismatches. So I could understand someone working for WWF who doesn't know shit about shit when it comes to fighting would look at Butterbean and think Bart Gunn would have a chance to beat him. Edited July 26, 2019 by Elsalvajeloco 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Watching Ken Shamrock circle for the entirety of the rounds til a draw like in the UFC would have been a hilarious instant capper to his WWF career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 1 hour ago, AxB said: Wasn't Dan Severn in the BfA? I think he was. Beat someone and then withdrew for reasons unclear. I know Ken Shamrock wasn't, even though he was with the company at the time. You'd think he'd have been a favourite, considering how he destroyed the entire Gracie family legacy with a single punch and everything. I thought both Ken and Dan were not allowed to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Quote The WWF's most prominent tough guys at the time, Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock, had little to no impact on the tournament. Severn defeated The Godfather in the first round but then withdrew from the tournament, stating he had nothing to prove. In a radio interview, Severn asserted that the WWF at first had not allowed him or Shamrock to compete at all and that they removed Severn from the tournament after his first-round victory over The Godfather.[4] However, Steve Williams recalls Shamrock "backing out" and Severn withdrawing because of his "frustration at the rules and the idea of having to wear boxing gloves".[5] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 Quote As it stands now, and this is all subject to change, the remainder of the first round should consist of Bob Holly vs. Bart Gunn and Kama Mustafa vs. Shawn Stasiak on 7/13 on the live Raw from the Continental Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, NJ and Williams vs. Pierre of the Quebecers and one of the DOA (not sure which one) vs. Mick Tierney on 7/14 at the taped Raw from Binghamton, NY. The lone quarterfinal match established is Bradshaw vs. Blackman, which based on their respective first round matches, Blackman would be favored in which would lead to an intriguing Blackman vs. Vega match. As mentioned last week, the idea behind this tournament is to add a new dimension to television that would get people talking and theoretically draw ratings, and perhaps to get wrestlers who aren't over a chance to make their own break with a strong showing. Nobody was forced to enter and the wrestlers are getting paid extra for doing the shoots, supposedly with $5,000 going to the winners of every match and $2,500 to the losers and a $75,000 bonus going to the winner of the tournament final according to another official. None of the top stars were invited to enter because they would have something to lose by being exposed, and Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn were kept out for obvious reasons. Realistically, the only person with something to lose out of all this is Williams, since he's being brought in with the opportunity to be a headliner and a title contender, and if he were to be exposed like Mero was, he'd be dead in the water because his lone marketing trait is that he can be promoted as a legitimately tough guy. There is already some speculation brewing regarding possible attempts to protect Williams for that very reason. Williams was a star lineman at the University of Oklahoma and a four-time All-American wrestler, placing as high as second, losing to Bruce Baumgartner, in the 1982 NCAA tournament (which is more impressive than it sounds because the guys he was competing against were almost all full-time wrestlers while for Williams, wrestling in college was a secondary sport behind football). Certainly that Steve Williams would be favored against anyone in this tournament. However, Williams, as tough as he no doubt was and he may have been the toughest man in the business at one time, is now 37 and hasn't competed in wrestling in 16 years. Tierney reputedly has shootfighting and wrestling experience and is definitely a strong man, and Stasiak (Shawn Stepich) was a good college heavyweight at Boise State University and was wrestling as recently as 1996, both of whom could be sleepers in this. WOR 7/13/1998 The very next Observer on 7/20 Quote In a surprise, probably because of the feeling the concept wasn't working and to build some interest in it and because the fans who were interested in it were more interested in seeing Dan Severn and Ken Shamrock involved, the WWF asked both Severn and Shamrock to participate just before the television tapings on 7/13. Severn accepted literally with no notice while Shamrock declined, so the story going around that Shamrock was supposed to wrestle 8 Ball may very well have been the plan in someone's mind but it was agreed to. It was suppose to be Kama vs. Shawn Stasiak (who would be replaced by Severn) and 8-Ball vs. Shamrock (who replaced some guy only to be replaced by Too Cold Scorpio). Hopefully, we can put this to bed now. Going back and watching the first round matches, there was no brackets on the screen. So they were flying by the seat of their pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I always wanted Bart Gunn to become a top guy after winning it instead of disappearing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) It's so Vince: Instead of begrudgingly going with it and pushing the guy who inadvertently won, they put him in a shoot against a knockout artist as punishment. Something not only completely unethical but totally defeats the purpose, which was to get someone over. I said it in the general thread about the blading comment and I'll say it again: What a baby. Edited July 26, 2019 by Curt McGirt 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 12 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I think I watched the Gunn/Kama and Gunn/Bradshaw matches again last year. The Bradshaw result was extremely pleasing. I think he went missing from TV for months after winning the tournament specifically to train for Butterbean. However, putting this into context, you had people like Mark Gastineau doing worked fights in boxing all the time. Then he fought ALONZO HIGHSMITH of all people in 1996 in Japan and looked terrible. On the same card, you had post HIV diagnosis Tommy Morrison. IIRC Meltzer covered those worked fights in the Observer at the time. At the same time, that's when Bob Arum, Don King, and others were cribbing pro wrestling a little and throwing people like Christy Martin, Mia St. John, and Butterbean on PPV main cards in glorified mismatches. So I could understand someone working for WWF who doesn't know shit about shit when it comes to fighting would look at Butterbean and think Bart Gunn would have a chance to beat him. It's quite possible, I'll definitely give you that. There's absolutely a possibility that Vince, body guy/size queen that he is, just looked at Butterbean, thought he was fat, and figured there's no way he'd win a fight. I mean this is the same Vince who didn't know who Frank Shamrock was and, seeing him for the first time, just figured he could probably take him in a fight because Shamrock is short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 So The Wrestlers is now airing in the UK. So far we've had Mexico and Evolve, with exoticos and women next up. The Evolve one focusing on Darby Allin vs Ethan Page feels untimely, with one guy in AEW and the other Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 22 hours ago, Technico Support said: It's quite possible, I'll definitely give you that. There's absolutely a possibility that Vince, body guy/size queen that he is, just looked at Butterbean, thought he was fat, and figured there's no way he'd win a fight. I mean this is the same Vince who didn't know who Frank Shamrock was and, seeing him for the first time, just figured he could probably take him in a fight because Shamrock is short. Frank Shamrock has worse knees than Vince especially around the time of Jericho's story but could still do what he did to Igor Zinoviev on Vince. That might literally kill Vince. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 I had to look that up Yeah, Vince would die. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Execproducer Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, Elsalvajeloco said: I think he went missing from TV for months after winning the tournament specifically to train for Butterbean. However, putting this into context, you had people like Mark Gastineau doing worked fights in boxing all the time. I remember reading about this fight in the short-lived sports paper The National. It was so preposterous that even some of the Apter mags felt the need to mention it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 That was the penultimate issue of the National. And I think the cover photo was by Keller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Execproducer Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 47 minutes ago, odessasteps said: That was the penultimate issue of the National. And I think the cover photo was by Keller. Do you remember who wrote the story? I know Meltzer had a column but I assume their boxing writer would have handled it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 I have it somewhere. If I can find it, I will look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 11 hours ago, odessasteps said: That was the penultimate issue of the National. And I think the cover photo was by Keller. Did I ever love the National. I used to have a forty minute or so commute by bus to my office, so I'd pick up the National and a latte while walking to the transfer point and have a most pleasant ride from downtown Seattle to Bellevue. Sadly, that was the only part of the day that was particularly pleasant, unless my buddy Doug stopped in to shoot the shit about baseball. God, I hated Bellevue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I finally watched the episode on Witch Catch ("voodoo wrestling") in the Congo and I still have no idea what to think about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Re: The National Derrick Dukes story It appears that Jay Mariotti was at least one of the reporters for it as in searching the old Observers, Dave wrote this Quote The Minneapolis boxing and wrestling scene in that era had a lot of crossover, as Sharkey used to book his wrestlers to perform as jobbers in boxing, at one time becoming a major news story when Derrick Dukes lost a one punch knockout to Mark Gastineau (a famous ex-NFL star) in 12 seconds and had a conversation with reporter Jay Mariotti in the airport the next day where he joked about it. Of course, in boxing, kayfabe was still alive but Dukes relaxed, and then had to recant everything when a hearing was held. In Dave's obit for Frank Deford - he confirms Wade Keller taking the photo of Dukes and seems to imply that both he and Deford helped with the story too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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