The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[sabremike]

3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

I welled up a bunch but surprisingly didn't seriously cry during this one either, I think out of anger more than anything. The closest I came was when Corny finally lost it. 

But Jesus, the sailboat clip, that she still has kept over all these years. And Jim being told by Kevin Dunn "Owen is dead, and we're live in 9, 8..."

Somebody should've punched Dunn right in his stupid buck teeth. Jesus, no wonder Corny hates that motherfucker.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

It gets me every time. Did the first time I came home from school in year 7 to read what happened. Bawled a 0.8 Mark Henry reading Broken Harts. Did tonight too.

Wasn't my favourite but definitely a top 5. His super cool enziguiri. His INXS knock off music. I remember Foley talking about how his son got a crew cut like Owen and I did as well. 

Watching Cornette tonight.. that was tough. Even Jim Ross who I hold in a special category of carney shitball...I felt for him greatly.

Agreed on feeling like there was some closure knowing how well his kids have turned out.

[StarChief EagleDemon]

I've never been in a writer's room before, but if the whole idea that they need a quick release to avoid wasting TV time, couldn't they have written around it? Would it have been that hard to think of something? Cut to the announcers or throw it to a video package. Bryan Alvarez brought it up the other day, if you want to up the parody aspect of it, give him even more carabiners to release and lean into the over the top absurdity of it. 

But Vince had to have his way and get in a meaningless jab at WCW. I remember somebody putting it this way: Owen Hart was a casualty of the Monday Night Wars.

[hammerva]

Well they did something of that with I guess the Survivor Series as they show Blazer basically stuck while Steve Blackman is hitting like a pinata.  While Ross and Lawler are mocking how dumb it is.   I guess they thought you can't do that bit more than once.

While obviously Vince and Kevin Dunn comes off horrible, I still say the person who comes off even worse is the person who wasn't in it and that is Vince Russo.  When they are talking about why they gave them the Blazer gimmick because they couldn't figure out what to do with a really good wrestler they are talking about Russo.

 

[OSJ]

I am old and lack fucks to give about whom I may piss off with my on-line remarks, so here goes: There is a special place in hell reserved for Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. From the looks of McMahon lately, he hasn't long to wait to enjoy having a red-hot poker shoved up his ass for eternity, Dunn may have a few more years, but that buck-toothed motherfucker will be spending eons sucking devil cock. There, that's  how we Irish roll with thoughts of the afterlife...

[StarChief EagleDemon]

It's a shame they weren't sledgehammering concepts to the audience back then, a la "the risk is worth the reward". Having too much rigging apparel could have been the Blue Blazer's "brand". Thinking about it now, The Overly Cautious Superhero may have actually gotten a few laughs out of me.

But Scorsese Jr. there wanted his pratfall and he wants it NOW, pal!

Edited May 20, 2020 by StarChief EagleDemon

[Technico Support]

44 minutes ago, StarChief EagleDemon said:

It's a shame they weren't sledgehammering concepts to the audience back then, a la "the risk is worth the reward". Having too much rigging apparel could have been the Blue Blazer's "brand". Thinking about it now, The Overly Cautious Superhero may have actually gotten a few laughs out of me.

But Scorsese Jr. there wanted his pratfall and he wants it NOW, pal!

Exactly.  Alvarez's idea of having the Blazer need more safety equipment was spot on.  But Vince is a dumdum who doesn't understand comedy and thinks anything above fart jokes needs to be explained ("he means Rob Gronkowski not Tom Brady LOL!").

If you don't like McMahon for what he did to Owen, or laying off wrestlers during a pandemic just so the balance sheet looks good, or doing business with murderers, or really any of the other myriad reasons there is to think he's straight garbage, I advise you to vote with your wallets.  There's plenty of wrestling out there not run by shitbags.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Technico Support

[(BP)]

My one criticism is that they glossed over how adept Owen was at comedy and character work, so he’s painted as a dry technical guy who wasn’t capable of having a big wrestling personality. It could have used a couple of Owen rib stories and a clip of him being a goof at the Slammys.

Continuing Over the Edge is always discussed in the terms of whether it was respectful or in good taste, but an excellent point is made that it should’ve been an accident investigation scene for the rest of the night. 

I’ll never forget having just finished watching that Jesse Ventura tv biopic and my mom coming in to my room to tell me to put on the news because a wrestler died. It didn’t make sense then and it never will. 

 

 

 

[Ultimo Necro]

Never ever did I think that Jim Cornette would make me cry, but it was his comments right before the ad break that got me. I was blubbering like a fool.

[Log]

1 hour ago, OSJ said:

I am old and lack fucks to give about whom I may piss off with my on-line remarks, so here goes: There is a special place in hell reserved for Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. From the looks of McMahon lately, he hasn't long to wait to enjoy having a red-hot poker shoved up his ass for eternity, Dunn may have a few more years, but that buck-toothed motherfucker will be spending eons sucking devil cock. There, that's  how we Irish roll with thoughts of the afterlife...

Aw, cmon OSJ. McDevitt said that Vince ALMOST CRIED when they met with Martha. Have a heart, man. 

[TheVileOne]

1 hour ago, (BP) said:

My one criticism is that they glossed over how adept Owen was at comedy and character work, so he’s painted as a dry technical guy who wasn’t capable of having a big wrestling personality. It could have used a couple of Owen rib stories and a clip of him being a goof at the Slammys.

Continuing Over the Edge is always discussed in the terms of whether it was respectful or in good taste, but an excellent point is made that it should’ve been an accident investigation scene for the rest of the night. 

I’ll never forget having just finished watching that Jesse Ventura tv biopic and my mom coming in to my room to tell me to put on the news because a wrestler died. It didn’t make sense then and it never will. 

 

 

 

I agree. I always thought Owen Hart was a great promo and heel. Like a total natural. He did come from a more traditional time but his character work promos and everything post Bret Hart turn were all on point. 
 

regarding police shutting the event down, does anyone know what/when authority police have to perform such an act?

Edited May 20, 2020 by TheVileOne

[odessasteps]

You would think if there was a homicide, they could shut down the crime scene. Highway fatalities often shut down roads for hours at a time. 

But it doesnt seem like deaths at a sporting event get shut down like that. Thinking about deaths at auto racing events, where it happens prob more than anything else. 

[AxB]

When TNA brought Roddy Piper in, he went straight up to Ed Ferrara and said "So you're the guy who killed my cousin Owen Hart".

Russo didn't work there yet.

[sabremike]

6 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You would think if there was a homicide, they could shut down the crime scene. Highway fatalities often shut down roads for hours at a time. 

But it doesnt seem like deaths at a sporting event get shut down like that. Thinking about deaths at auto racing events, where it happens prob more than anything else. 

The difference is that in racing a car crash is an inherent risk of the sport. What happened with Owen was nothing like that: it was something that happened during a show and there was an incredibly strong possibility that it was the result of criminal negligence, therefore it absolutely should've been treated like a crime scene.

[Curt McGirt]

If Owen was the funniest guy in the locker room and this was the "reality" era, why not just have a gimmick where he ribs everyone like in real life? Vince could have pulled every shit joke in the book. They could have made whole feuds out of him mocking people. 

But then DX would have shut it down for gimmick infringement I suppose.

[The Natural]

I watched Dark Side of the Ring: The Last Days of Owen Hart when I woke up but I wanted to think this over.

I usually struggle sleeping with my Cerebral Palsy so I listen to Radio 5 Live and there's a show called Up All Night covering news around the world. I was 14 and heard a wrestler had died at Over the Edge 1999, Owen Hart and it was making Good Morning Television (GMTV). I watched Over the Edge on VHS as my Dad set them to record due to the UK/USA time difference.

Dark Side of the Ring: The Last Days of Owen Hart was the first time I'd watched footage from it since May of 1999. If I had to sum the documentary up in a sentence? This was a very difficult documentary to watch but it's one to watch and if anything, I wish it was two parts. It was chilling seeing people at the Kemper Arena recall what happened: Jim Ross, Godfather, D-Lo Brown and the police photos. I remembered that the clasp was totally inappropriate and the awful way Vince McMahon spoke at that press conference. I didn't know that Kevin Dunn told Jim Ross that Owen had died and he was counting down till he was back on air or Martha/Oje/Athena walking on the gantry Owen did.  Fucking hell. So sad seeing Jim Cornette breaking down while telling the story that Owen Hart was shouting for people to look out as he fell. Yeah, that got me crying.

I've never changed my opinion that the show should've ended as soon as what happened did. Fuck WWE, Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. FUCK. THEM. Respect to Dr Martha Hart, Oje Hart and Athena Hart for enduring such a tragedy to where they are now. Wanted to hug all three. You can tell Oje and Athena were brought up well by their parents. I'll be firing up Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart at WrestleMania X tonight. What a talent Owen was in ring, as a personality, a prankster and as a family man. So sad. R.I.P. Owen Hart. Woo!!!

Edited May 20, 2020 by The Natural

[odessasteps]

20 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

If Owen was the funniest guy in the locker room and this was the "reality" era, why not just have a gimmick where he ribs everyone like in real life? Vince could have pulled every shit joke in the book. They could have made whole feuds out of him mocking people. 

But then DX would have shut it down for gimmick infringement I suppose.

He could have been GTV

[The Natural]

Good job on the Dark Side of the Ring: The Last Days of Owen Hart review and interview with Dr Martha Hart, @TheVileOne. Read both earlier today.

[peterien]

Very tough to watch. Most of you guys have covered my thoughts on it. 

Owen deserves his spot in the WWE HOF more than half the guys that are in there but I hope he’s never put in because of his family’s beliefs, what warriors. 

One thing that bugs me about Cornette and Ross on documentaries like this is that they worked for wwf at the time. Cornette mostly says stuff like “they let the show continue” “they did this” and etc and I don’t know if he was backstage that night or not but fucking say something about it then, walk out, get angry with the people who wanted to continue the show. Same for JR, he doesn’t say it on this but one can imagine he felt the same, get up, walk away and tell Vince you’re not doing it. 

[hammerva]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

When TNA brought Roddy Piper in, he went straight up to Ed Ferrara and said "So you're the guy who killed my cousin Owen Hart".

Russo didn't work there yet.

I thought he did blame Russo for the murder.   Or maybe both.  I could have sworn when he did that rambling promo Russo was in the ring when it happened.  And Russo just stood there are took it because he was in the complete no win situation.  

[PetrolCB]

9 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I thought he did blame Russo for the murder.   Or maybe both.  I could have sworn when he did that rambling promo Russo was in the ring when it happened.  And Russo just stood there are took it because he was in the complete no win situation.  

Yeah, I could've sworn Piper cut a promo on Russo regarding Owen during one of his random Nitro appearances.

Edited May 20, 2020 by PetrolCB

[Cobra Commander]

Another thing about keeping the show going is that they had a world title switch. So there’s an Undertaker title victory that they don’t include on various montages because they had the title switch on a show where somebody died in the ring. Idk if they think it makes their argument for continuing weaker to just audible out of the title switch that night and have it happen on a RAW on 5/31 or June. Like the option is between a title switch that you’ll never show again or holding a total blah card and just getting it over with.

[hammerva]

21 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

Yeah, I could've sworn Piper cut a promo on Russo regarding Owen during one of his random Nitro appearances.

The one I was thinking of was in TNA around 2002 or 2003.  I mean it wouldn't surprise me if he did the same thing in 1999 in WCW but don't remember that

[Sublime]

I've seen WWE defenders on the topic say that they had to keep the show going because of the title switch, because it would have ruined the booking plans. Granted I haven't seen the argument in a long time but I've also not gone any where other than here for wrestling talk in close to 2 decades so I don't know how much that still holds but some people are really too far into the wrestling bubble if they think that is a  rational reason to not stop a show when someone dies in the ring.

I haven't watched the episode yet but am going to get to it once my work week slows down or more likely the weekend.

[Mister TV]

18 minutes ago, Sublime said:

I've seen WWE defenders on the topic say that they had to keep the show going because of the title switch, because it would have ruined the booking plans. Granted I haven't seen the argument in a long time but I've also not gone any where other than here for wrestling talk in close to 2 decades so I don't know how much that still holds but some people are really too far into the wrestling bubble if they think that is a  rational reason to not stop a show when someone dies in the ring.

I haven't watched the episode yet but am going to get to it once my work week slows down or more likely the weekend.

If I remember right one of McMahon's excuses was the fear that the crowd was "going to riot" if they cancelled the show, one would assume they didn't cancel the show was so they wouldn't have to refund the ppv buys.