The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Mister TV]

19 minutes ago, Log said:

Didn’t Schultz have an on-air association with Piper? Seems like he was being pushed hard enough before the Stossel and Mr T stuff, that he could’ve possibly been Piper’s partner at WM instead of Orndorff, perhaps?  If that’s the case, I don’t see them turning him face afterwards like they did Mr Wonderful. 

When Piper came in he was a manager/wrestler and had a quasi stable with Orndorff and Shultz, that lasted to maybe the summer of 1984. If I remember right they all sort of went their separate ways with Piper brining on Bob "Ace" Orton as his bodyguard, Orndorff going with Heenan and Schultz with no manager but Piper and Orndorff still teamed up from time to time, I saw them work with Snuka & Tonga Kid in December 1984. Orndorff had a better look and was a better worker than Shultz so that's most likely the reason he got the spot.

[Linus]

I tried to work out the timeline of stuff for myself, so you might as well as have it:

July-December 1983: AWA, where he cuts the promo on Hogan

December 1983: joins WWF

May 29 1984: "At home with Dr D" airs

December 28 1984: the Stossel incident

February 21 1985: 20/20 airs

February 28 1985: Schultz's final WWF match

March 1 1985: Schultz to New Japan

March 1985: copycat angle in Japan

April 13 1985: incident with Mr T in Los Angeles

April 1985: fired from WWF

May 1985: Memphis, with the swastika shirt and JERRY LAWLER HAS AIDS incident

September 1985: New York indy

July-September 1986: Stampede

November-December 1986: Montreal

1987: becomes bounty hunter

 

[colonial]

Schultz was still popping up on U.S. indies before he focused on bounty hunting. First wrestling show I saw live was in December 1986 in Sussex County,. New Jersey -- group called "Eastern Wrestling Alliance." 

One of the top matches was Schultz against Johnny Rodz. 15-minute match, of which at least 10 minutes was devoted to Schultz stalling, walking around the ring, yelling at people, etc. Before the match, Schultz cut promos on John Stossel and Hulk Hogan, prompting a Hogan lookalike (!) to come out and exchange words with him. 

I lost the program from that show, but from what I remember ...

-- Schultz was second from the top. Main event was Ivan Putski vs. The Hangman. 

-- Rocco Rock, under a mask as "Cheetah Kid," won his match with a moonsault. First time I ever saw a moonsault in a match.

-- There was another wrestler named Jim Mannion, whose gimmick was that he "recently won the lottery," and wanted to "share his money with the fans." He did no such thing -- and he was the BABYFACE.

-- I was 11 at the time, and my dad took me to the show as an early Christmas gift. On the drive home, he mentioned how much he enjoyed seeing Putski and Cheetah Kid, but hated the fact there were no tag team bouts and that the program consisted primarily of photos of wrestlers who weren't there (Memory is hazy, but I recall Sgt. Slaughter, Abby, The Wild Samoans, Misty Blue Simms and Wendi Richter featured in the program. None of them were there, although none were promoted ahead of time to begin with.)

 

[odessasteps]

Cagematch has his last match as April 89 v muraco. 

[Curt McGirt]

1 hour ago, Linus said:

May 1985: Memphis, with the swastika shirt and JERRY LAWLER HAS AIDS incident

Okay I have to see this. That even sounds OTT for Memphis.

EDIT: 

Phew.

Edited May 1, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[Linus]

13 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Okay I have to see this. That even sounds OTT for Memphis.

 

[The Green Meanie]

15 hours ago, hammerva said:

What was the  promotion that they were showing of Dr D David Schultz and what looked to be Lee Marshall as part of his "blackballed" phase?  I don't think it was AWA

That was from the infamous International Wrestling Federation's "Muscle Rock Madness" VHS tape/tour that was shot around 1989-1992:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlJobr754pc

Wrestlecrap did a pretty good write-up about it a few years ago - http://wrestlecrap.com/inductions/classic-induction-musclerock-madness-or-as-we-like-to-call-it-the-van-hammer-memorial-show/

And somehow the company is still around to this day:
https://www.wrestle-rock.com/

[ReiseReise]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:57 AM, happjack said:

This episode once again proves that all of the hysteria about “exposing the business” back then was all for naught, the segment didn’t keep anyone from buying a ticket or watching pro wrestling on tv.

I would 100% buy Dr D to be a bad, bad man I didn't want to mess with, no matter if I was unsure about the business itself. And when the Business got exposed in the early 90ies it tanked pretty hard. 

Seriously, I don't know anyone who ever thought Wrestling was 100% legit. But the wrestlers in it those I bought at a time. Strictly speaking as tough and crazy guys. 

I loved this episode and I think the crazy redneck came across way better than Mainsfield and Stossel. And of course it is hypocrisy to treat people differently for almost identical actions. Hogan letting Belzer just drop instead of carefully placing him down is a way more disturbing visual than Stossel getting slapped. 

[Infinit]

One of my FB friends plays Herb Abrams in this week's episode. Crazy!

[SorceressKnight]

On 5/2/2020 at 3:26 AM, ReiseReise said:

And of course it is hypocrisy to treat people differently for almost identical actions. Hogan letting Belzer just drop instead of carefully placing him down is a way more disturbing visual than Stossel getting slapped. 

Well, even that hypocrisy at least had some logic to the difference there.

With Belzer, what Hogan did was a more disturbing visual...but at the same time, there's also a "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" argument there. Belzer tried to prove wrestling was fake and, to prove it, openly asked Hogan to put him in a wrestling hold- and Hogan put him in a hold. Belzer's was more brutal- but because he flat-out asked Hogan to put him in the hold, he kind of had it coming to him. 

Stossel asked a question to Dr. D, and got slapped as the result of it. Stossel didn't ask to be slapped, and was punished for a result. In that instance, Dr. D was the one attacking an interviewer who didn't want to be attacked, so Dr. D was kind of at fault.

[Curt McGirt]

You've got a point. If D had pulled the "let me put you in a hold" instead and just stretched him it would have came off a lot better. In any case he was the wrong person to put in that situation. 

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

True and true, but Schultz was told by McMahon via Strongbow to "blast 'em", and even if his actions are deemed more heinous, his superiors shouldn't have fired him, if not backed him up. It is obvious that there were more factors involved than a scale of violence or bullying.

- RAF

p.s. - (namely being Hogan)

Edited May 4, 2020 by thee Reverend Axl Future
f'n Hulkster...

[Curt McGirt]

Vince wanted it one way, but got cold feet when it seemed like some kind of real consequences could happen to him. Which necessitated a fall guy. It makes you almost feel bad for Dr. D; if Vince had any actual grapefruits he would have went and slapped Stossel himself. 

[SorceressKnight]

Honestly, that ties to @Linus's timeline that, again makes it unlikely the 20/20 incident really had anything to do with it.

Considering a big What If? here was- apparently going into the 20/20 incident, Dr. D was supposed to be in Orndorff's place at the first Wrestlemania, it seems likely- especially with the foresight that we know Vince is willing to change plans on a dime- that this was less "WWF punished Dr. D for the Stossel slap" and more "Vince decided he would rather build to an Orndorff face turn and chose him instead"...and when Dr. D did get fired, it's likely more the result of the Mr. T altercation and the "you nearly cost us a relationship with a real star? You're fired!" result.

[odessasteps]

From beau james’ Southeastern Results 

Southeastern @ Panama City, FL --Rainbow Roller Rink-- May 4, 1978 

Rueben Gibson vs. The Outlaw 

Charlie Cook vs. Eddie Sullivan 

Ricky Gibson vs. Assassin #2 

Rip Tyler vs. Assassin #1 

Bob Armstrong & Charlie Cook vs. David Shultz & Eddie Mansfield 

[sabremike]

21 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

True and true, but Schultz was told by McMahon via Strongbow to "blast 'em", and even if his actions are deemed more heinous, his superiors shouldn't have fired him, if not backed him up. It is obvious that there were more factors involved than a scale of violence or bullying.

- RAF

p.s. - (namely being Hogan)

But Schultz wasn't fired over the 20/20 thing, he was fired over the incident with Mr T (Who in fact was THE reason Wrestlemania was a smashing success). If you mess with the guy who a show that will make or break the company is built around there's a pretty good chance you'll get fired.

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

Great point, sabremike. It saddens me, tho', that Schultz was used to protect kay fabe (and make a splash) in way that most other workers couldn't/wouldn't. and that same volatility gets hims fired w/o consideration when his "usefulness" was over. RAF = monstrous Dr. D mark & hater of Mr. T in thee beloved pro rasslin. I don't think T sold tix per se, but it was the fact that it was a celebrity teaming with Hogan that legitimized WrestleMania for the regular media to cover it. Mr. T was a goofy actor and not a tough guy (at least to my peers) but maybe he had sway over the young kids. A regular sports personality could have filled his role, but was there someone who would have done it?

- RAF

[SorceressKnight]

Honestly, in 1985, I don't think there WAS a good enough sports personality who'd make sense in the role Mr. T was in. Muhammad Ali was retired and a little bit past his sell-by date to actually fight in a match, Mike Tyson hadn't exploded enough to be a big enough star to do it.

The NBA and NHL weren't big enough to make sense, MLB stars wouldn't be big enough yet people would take them seriously in a wrestling ring, and WWE tried NFL stars a year later, including getting Refrigerator Perry (the closest thing to a breakout star in the 1985 season) and it didn't really click.

And if you go action movie stars, it's the same thing- Stallone was too big, Arnold was too small, and WWE could have gotten neither. Chuck Norris might have been a possibility, but Mr. T was the bigger star , even if he didn't have the same legitimate fighting credibility- though Mr. T's aura was built on the image he was a legit badass

[sabremike]

42 minutes ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Great point, sabremike. It saddens me, tho', that Schultz was used to protect kay fabe (and make a splash) in way that most other workers couldn't/wouldn't. and that same volatility gets hims fired w/o consideration when his "usefulness" was over. RAF = monstrous Dr. D mark & hater of Mr. T in thee beloved pro rasslin. I don't think T sold tix per se, but it was the fact that it was a celebrity teaming with Hogan that legitimized WrestleMania for the regular media to cover it. Mr. T was a goofy actor and not a tough guy (at least to my peers) but maybe he had sway over the young kids. A regular sports personality could have filled his role, but was there someone who would have done it?

- RAF

I don't know if you understand just how big a celebrity Mr T was at that time. He was quite literally the biggest celebrity in America at that time (The best comparison I can give is to the Bob Sapp phenomenon in Japan). He is still so remembered as a pop culture icon that if they were doing a live WWE show in front of fans and he walked out he'd get a bigger pop than anything else on the show.

[sabremike]

14 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

Honestly, in 1985, I don't think there WAS a good enough sports personality who'd make sense in the role Mr. T was in. Muhammad Ali was retired and a little bit past his sell-by date to actually fight in a match, Mike Tyson hadn't exploded enough to be a big enough star to do it.

The NBA and NHL weren't big enough to make sense, MLB stars wouldn't be big enough yet people would take them seriously in a wrestling ring, and WWE tried NFL stars a year later, including getting Refrigerator Perry (the closest thing to a breakout star in the 1985 season) and it didn't really click.

And if you go action movie stars, it's the same thing- Stallone was too big, Arnold was too small, and WWE could have gotten neither. Chuck Norris might have been a possibility, but Mr. T was the bigger star , even if he didn't have the same legitimate fighting credibility- though Mr. T's aura was built on the image he was a legit badass

And remember that Ali was in fact on the show and was supposed to be the special guest referee for the main event. He was so far gone they had to put Pat Patterson in the role and have Ali stand outside the ring as an enforcer.

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

I remember. Heck, I was at WM1. I think you overestimate his juice. He was a manufactured pop culture phenomenon. He was a star, but of the lowest caliber. Then again, the WWF was no big shakes at that point and time either.

- RAF

[Curt McGirt]

Everyone says Ali was all messed up but Ric Flair and Eric Bischoff (talk about opposing sides) both said that he was lucid, could communicate in whispers, and even jogged the stairs when they all went to North Korea for the Collision card. That was years after Wrestlemania 1. 

Well, then again, reffing a match is one active fucking position to have.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[PetrolCB]

(delete)

Edited May 5, 2020 by PetrolCB

[odessasteps]

9 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Everyone says Ali was all messed up but Ric Flair and Eric Bischoff (talk about opposing sides) both said that he was lucid, could communicate in whispers, and even jogged the stairs when they all went to North Korea for the Collision card. That was years after Wrestlemania 1. 

Well, then again, reffing a match is one active fucking position to have.

Allegedly, the reason they made Pat the in-ring ref was fear of Ali not being able to do his role correctly. 

[Mister TV]

15 minutes ago, sabremike said:

I don't know if you understand just how big a celebrity Mr T was at that time. He was quite literally the biggest celebrity in America at that time (The best comparison I can give is to the Bob Sapp phenomenon in Japan). He is still so remembered as a pop culture icon that if they were doing a live WWE show in front of fans and he walked out he'd get a bigger pop than anything else on the show.

As someone who was 10/11 years old during this timeframe I can co-sign that Mr. T was a HUGE celebrity and phenomenon, he would have been the third most popular/well known tv star behind Bill Cosby and Michael J. Fox, plus people thought he was a legit badass due to his look and how he worked his gimmick. Oh yeah he also had a Saturday morning cartoon show and his own breakfast cereal. 

Wrestlemania and the WWF wouldn’t be where they are today if it wasn’t for Mr. T working that match and the build up to it. 
 

Also, if Vince had any plans for Dr. D working the WM main event he wouldn’t have had him jobbing clean to a visiting Inoki a few months before the big show.