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The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries


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48 minutes ago, Hayabusa said:

All the New Jack discussion and this last episode has me wondering if Jack and Necro Butcher ever had a match?

Just that the idea of Jack trying to mess with a legit tough guy got me wondering what Jack vs Samoa Joe might look like, which then got me remembering the Joe vs Necro matches, which was how I started thinking about a Jack/Necro brawl/match.

April 2013 for Pro Wrestling Syndicate in what was billed at the time as New Jack's retirement match. They previously had a triple threat with Mad Man Pondo in CZW in 2004. 

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I think Cornette is a big reason why Dave didn't get interviewed. Not because he actually tried to prevent Dave from being on the show (you'd think if he had that pull, he'd use it on Russo first), but because a lot of the interview with Dave would have been him putting things in historical context, and all of those questions can be answered by Cornette. If they can get Corny to cover that ground, they can cut the cost of having to fly out a crew to California to interview Dave.

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23 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

I am watching the New Jack episode now and I will say this, I attended a half dozen shows that he was on in 2004 and he was one of the most accessible guys you could see. New Jack would be on these shows with Cm Punk, Honky Tonk Man, Duggan, Foley, Hero, Joe, and of all of these guys New Jack would be the one that always came over and would chat.  @Gorman can verify this story.  There was a show at CCAC College where New Jack left one of his weapons (think Wolverine claw with blades coming out the fingers) at the venue.   He was a character but I never saw him do anything crazy and he was always extremely nice to me and my crew. 

Yes, New Jack was cool with us. Joe Dombrowski and I were calling AJ Styles vs. Homicide in a respect match, trying to get over this serious storyline. Then New Jack crashes the commentary booth and has us rolling.

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One of the best things I've got from any shoot is somebody asking Jack 'who would people be surprised you're friends with', and he said Molly Holly. Molly is a saint all around the board and just the vision of her coming up in an airport and saying "hi, Jack!" gives me a smile. 

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23 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

April 2013 for Pro Wrestling Syndicate in what was billed at the time as New Jack's retirement match. They previously had a triple threat with Mad Man Pondo in CZW in 2004. 

Here you go:

 

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Wrestling was very very different back then. I'm almost 100% certain New Jack's actions in the Mass Transit incident was seen as the right thing to do, him beating the shit out of someone who was somewhat of an outsider to it. I'm also quite sure Jack got work in small promotions with little crowds, so it's not that he got some big contracts and stuff. 

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45 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Just watched the New Jack episode...how is he not in jail?  Why did people keep hiring him?  Seriously, after Mass Transit, he wrestled for another decade at least...wrestling is fucking skeezy.

Yeah, but at the same time tho... he's such a great raconteur and genuinely funny. Plus, that strut he always did with the guitar. On the one hand, New Jack is the worst. On the other, he's the best. I had a blast watching this except for the few parts I had to look away, then I really quickly did not have a blast.

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2 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Yeah, but at the same time tho... he's such a great raconteur and genuinely funny. Plus, that strut he always did with the guitar. On the one hand, New Jack is the worst. On the other, he's the best. I had a blast watching this except for the few parts I had to look away, then I really quickly did not have a blast.

When Vic Grimes got tazed and told New Jack, "I can't feel my legs," and New Jack responded with, "Don't worry, you won't need them.  Bombs away," I honestly didn't know what to do, because that shit was funny, but he then tried to kill a man.

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I love how they are hyping the Brawl for All as "one of the worst ideas in wrestling history".  Hell I don't think it is one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998.  Hell it probably isn't one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998 for the WWF alone.  If it was dumb as hell

Holy shit they brought in Droz  to talk about his match with Layfield.  That was cool to see

So the whole idea of Brawl for All was that Russo was sick of listening to Layfield talk shit about how tough he was.  So he creates a 16 man tournament in the hope that someone would kick his ass.  And of course Russo now is cracking up watching him get knocked out in clear pain

I still don't get this idea that 1998 Steve Williams could have a legit run against the hottest guy in the business in Austin.   

Edited by hammerva
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22 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I love how they are hyping the Brawl for All as "one of the worst ideas in wrestling history".  Hell I don't think it is one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998.  Hell it probably isn't one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998 for the WWF alone.  If it was dumb as hell

Holy shit they brought in Droz  

I have absolutely no idea how you can come to that conclusion after watching this: it sucked on every conceivable level. The bouts sucked, almost all the guys pretty much had their careers ruined through either being exposed as unable to really fight or getting injured and NOBODY got over. And the most awful thing was that the whole thing exposed that the company didn't give a flying fuck about the well being of their talent. 

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Oh it definitely sucked I would agree.  I just remember seeing a ton of 1998 Attitude Era that was just terrible.  But yeah was it ruined careers terrible maybe not

Oh man the Snuka one is next week  

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19 minutes ago, sabremike said:

And the most awful thing was that the whole thing exposed that the company didn't give a flying fuck about the well being of their talent. 

Yeah. From the very start it just felt slimy to me, how they picked everything out of a hat, then started changing things... Did the winners of each round get $75 grand, or just Bart? Because they should've all been paid $75 per round whether they won or not, just for putting themselves at risk like that. I had no idea about all the injuries either. Cluster is right. 

Also, I thought Jim was gonna start crying after saying "wrestling is the most important thing in my life" after the Russo rant. And then after he said what he said about Droz it was like him putting the hammer down on his "it's not fake" comment, "THIS is why I think that". Very powerful. I hope that guilt Russo appeared to finally feel is real, but I doubt it.

Turns out this subject was perfect for this documentary.

EDIT: And thank fuck they didn't show what happened to Droz. I was saying out loud "don't show it". D-Lo showing up last week should have been a warning that they'd get into it but I never put two and two together.

Edited by Curt McGirt
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47 minutes ago, hammerva said:

 

I still don't get this idea that 1998 Steve Williams could have a legit run against the hottest guy in the business in Austin.   

The Mythical Dr Death Main event run seems to be only the thoughts of JR & Cornette because it sure as hell wasn't the fans. 

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4 hours ago, supremebve said:

When Vic Grimes got tazed and told New Jack, "I can't feel my legs," and New Jack responded with, "Don't worry, you won't need them.  Bombs away," I honestly didn't know what to do, because that shit was funny, but he then tried to kill a man.

I laughed my ass off at the line, but that's probably only because Grimes didn't die.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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57 minutes ago, hammerva said:

I love how they are hyping the Brawl for All as "one of the worst ideas in wrestling history".  Hell I don't think it is one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998.  Hell it probably isn't one of the worst ideas in the year of 1998 for the WWF alone.  If it was dumb as hell

Holy shit they brought in Droz  to talk about his match with Layfield.  That was cool to see

So the whole idea of Brawl for All was that Russo was sick of listening to Layfield talk shit about how tough he was.  So he creates a 16 man tournament in the hope that someone would kick his ass.  And of course Russo now is cracking up watching him get knocked out in clear pain

I still don't get this idea that 1998 Steve Williams could have a legit run against the hottest guy in the business in Austin.   

If anything, Doc would have probably main evented a non big 5 ppv against Austin with a lot of run-in's and Vince chicanery.

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Doc as a main eventer would have worked two or three years prior when business was down, and they were looking for names from the past to be high level utility players. Dick Murdoch, who was about a year and half away from dying, had a great performance in a Royal Rumble for godsakes. He could have easily main evented a throwaway IYH PPV or two between the major PPVs as @Nice Guy Eddie said.

In 1998, unless they had a great idea, Doc just didn't fit in with what WWF was at the time. Shit, at least Phil LaFon and Furnas could have awesome tag matches. Even with that, it was a tag team in a transition phase. By the time Brawl for All rolled around, WWF had turned the tide tremendously even though WCW was still doing pretty damn good. What were you really going to get out of Doc at the time, who had battered his body something fierce? If the best idea you could come up for him was that tournament, he was doomed from the beginning.

Now if someone came up to Vince (McMahon) and said "instead of paying a Mike Tyson all this money to appear for one storyline, why don't we come up with our own "Baddest Man on the Planet" who we already have under contract to feud with Austin", I mean I can sorta see that as a reason to do a tournament. However, knowing what's going in Atlanta and seeing they're about to put the strap on someone who is extending their business success, why not have Doc beat everyone in seconds in worked matches? Create your own Goldberg and let him tear through everyone over two or three months. He challenges Austin through a carefully selected mouthpiece, and Doc gets his one off payday. Other than that, I don't see it as feasible to do Doc against ANY WWF champion or top guy.

 

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I can certainly see them pushing Doc to a big feud with Austin. You'd have JR putting him over like crazy, him having theoretically ran through the B4A, his bad ass aura... If it would've worked, I'm less convinced.

I said it in the thread we just had about Brawl For All, but I'm still baffled they thought Doc was a ringer in a tourny with Severn. And I know they pushed in this doc that he barely beat Godfather, but if my memory serves, that was mostly them not being able to decide what is and isn't a takedown, and Severn only getting points for like one or two out of four or five. And the bonus points being for punches thrown instead of landed. I'm pretty sure if they had gone head to head, The Beast would've chewed Doc up.

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