The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Log]

I was holding my little boy when I started watching it. I had to put him to bed before I could finish. It was just too sad thinking about a dad doing something like that to their son. Jesus. It really is a great episode. It’s a story we all know, but seeing it told by the people closest to it gives it more weight. It was great that they somehow managed to end on a hopeful note. 

[nofuture]

 

[TheVileOne]

On 3/23/2020 at 4:52 AM, Technico Support said:

So apparently Meltzer wasn't interviewed for this episode (not sure if he's in any others for that matter) because one of more powerful producers got most of his wrestling knowledge via Prichard's podcast and, because of that, 100% believes Prichard's characterization of Meltzer as a know-nothing charlatan.  For fuck's sake.  It really dampens my enthusiasm for the entire season to have in the back of my mind the thought that the show is being guided in part by a moron.

Was it Chavo? He was one of the producers on this documentary. 

IMHO it doesn't bother me so much. Meltzer's commentary wasn't really necessary for this episode. There was some additional information I wish would've been covered, but there was a lot I didn't know about that was covered here as well.

To be honest, listening to Meltzer still talk about Benoit after he watched this, I'm sort of glad we didn't get his perspective. He still sounds like has a bias and torch for Benoit all these years later.

Edited March 25, 2020 by TheVileOne

[Curt McGirt]

We might give Jericho shit for some of the crap on his podcast but that guy is a fucking saint for doing that for those people. It really hurt to hear Daniel not say Dean's name when they asked him who kept in touch, and even though they didn't show those two embrace at least Nancy's sister and him did. When Chavito showed up and then she did at the end, man... that's the good stuff. That's what we and especially them needed. 

And because I gotta bring it up: Poor Jim. They threw him out there as the sacrificial lamb to go to the funeral. Of all the low things Vince put him through all those years, doing that has to be the worst. Not just the selfishness of it, but also the cowardice of it. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[TheVileOne]

1 minute ago, Curt McGirt said:

We might give Jericho shit for some of the crap on his podcast but that guy is a fucking saint for doing that for those people. It really hurt to hear Daniel not say Dean's name when they asked him who kept in touch, and even though they didn't show those two embrace at least Nancy's sister and him did. When Chavito showed up and then she did at the end, man... that's the good stuff. That's what we and especially them needed. 

And because I gotta bring it up: Poor Jim. They threw him out there as the sacrificial goat to go to the funeral. Of all the low things Vince put him through all those years, doing that has to be the worst. Not just the selfishness of it, but also the cowardice of it. 

Jericho getting them together and helping them reconnect was a wonderful unselfish thing to do. 

That said, I don't completely blame everyone from WWE for not talking to them or showing them a helping hand. Case in point, Jim Ross went to Nancy's funeral and her family felt it was some kind of "work" and they didn't want him there. Maybe some were doing it out of respect and they simply didn't know how to do it. Maybe some of it was out of shame or guilt. Granted, maybe they should've tried to give it time and reach out sooner but massive props to Jericho for what he did.

But Sandra and David and David's sister, who wasn't really mentioned here, were victims too in all of this. Their stories got lost in the 13 years until now. News media coverage just wanted to get their licks in on pro wrestling and didn't care about who was really suffering here.

[Curt McGirt]

Yeah gotta admit, I don't know what I would do myself in that situation. I'd like to think that if I felt guilt I'd go no matter what. Vince definitely had a reason in that he didn't want it to blow up in his face any further. It's complicated. 

However, picking someone as the one person to go as the company rep when you aren't willing to do it yourself...

EDIT: You know what, we don't know if Vince made him go or he went on his own so I'm just gonna shut up about it.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[TheVileOne]

1 minute ago, Curt McGirt said:

Yeah gotta admit, I don't know what I would do myself in that situation. I'd like to think that if I felt guilt I'd go no matter what. Vince definitely had a reason in that he didn't want it to blow up in his face any further. It's complicated. 

However, picking someone as the one person to go as the company rep when you aren't willing to do it yourself...

Well a lot of people on Twitter are already crucifying Vince/WWE for this. On one hand, I understand the emotions. But let's say had WWE fully thrown their financial support to the Toffoloni family, would they have even accepted it in this case? Vince and WWE were able to mend fences with Bret Hart and some of the Hart family, but the relationship with Owen's widow, Martha, is still severed to this day. 

Eric Bischoff said he went to Rick Rude's funeral and Rude's family asked him to leave. And Bischoff and Rude had a friendship that went back to their high school days. So if Vince had gone, would he have even been accepted there? 

For clarification, I'm not completely excusing WWE, Vince, and WWE talent here, but IMHO it's a complicated, murky situation. It's not black and white. 

[TheVileOne]

35 minutes ago, nofuture said:

 

If you thought the two parts were brutal, there's a deleted scene here where David and Chavo talk about all the nasty comments they've gotten over the years. 

Can you imagine what David Benoit have had to go through the last 13 years? People probably bullying and shaming them for this? I mean think about his little sister. Megan Benoit was even younger than David when this happened. I think David was about 14-15. His sister is even younger than that. I just hope they can have reasonably stable decent lives. You can't even truly heal from the emotional trauma of something like this. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

This will never not be difficult to watch. I'm the point of Eddie's death and the aftermath and I'm physically sick to my stomach.

BTW, this commercial they're airing for Office Space with metal in the background makes me think it would have been awesome with a metal soundtrack.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Nice Guy Eddie
Just finishing watching it. I feel like I want to throw up.

[Curt McGirt]

As long as Geto Boys still plays during the printer-bashing scene. That should never change. 

[bazzil]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:52 PM, Technico Support said:

So apparently Meltzer wasn't interviewed for this episode (not sure if he's in any others for that matter) because one of more powerful producers got most of his wrestling knowledge via Prichard's podcast and, because of that, 100% believes Prichard's characterization of Meltzer as a know-nothing charlatan.  For fuck's sake.  It really dampens my enthusiasm for the entire season to have in the back of my mind the thought that the show is being guided in part by a moron.

Where did you hear this?

[Brian Fowler]

Good Lord that poor fucking kid. I already knew his life must've been hell, but fuck man. Nobody should have to grow up with that weight on them. I feel bad for a lot of people in this. Chavo we already talked about, Vickie, Nancy's sister, etc... But poor David Benoit. And doesn't David have a sister as well, also from Chris's first marriage

About Eric: he's getting more unhinged about Meltzer all the time. I think it must improve listenership. Hell, a couple years ago on the podcast he talked about having to get special permission to hire Rick Rude because Rude had sued WCW at the end of his previous stint there. Then on a fairly recent episode, he just absolutely went off about Meltzer making up a story about Rude's lawsuit and reported settlement being part of his contract Basically denying it ever happened. Then you look at the WCW salary information Turner disclosed in the discrimination suit, and Rude made almost exactly $250,000 more in 98 than 99, which would be pretty much exactly what Dave reported was the number in the deal that was part of the settlement.

[Brian Fowler]

1 minute ago, bazzil said:

Where did you hear this?

Meltzer said it on WOR the other night.

[TheVileOne]

4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Good Lord that poor fucking kid. I already knew his life must've been hell, but fuck man. Nobody should have to grow up with that weight on them. I feel bad for a lot of people in this. Chavo we already talked about, Vickie, Nancy's sister, etc... But poor David Benoit. And doesn't David have a sister as well, also from Chris's first marriage

About Eric: he's getting more unhinged about Meltzer all the time. I think it must improve listenership. Hell, a couple years ago on the podcast he talked about having to get special permission to hire Rick Rude because Rude had sued WCW at the end of his previous stint there. Then on a fairly recent episode, he just absolutely went off about Meltzer making up a story about Rude's lawsuit and reported settlement being part of his contract Basically denying it ever happened. Then you look at the WCW salary information Turner disclosed in the discrimination suit, and Rude made almost exactly $250,000 more in 98 than 99, which would be pretty much exactly what Dave reported was the number in the deal that was part of the settlement.

Yes, David Benoit has a younger sister from Chris Benoit's first marriage.

[odessasteps]

Jericho's pod today has the Dark Side exec's to not only talk about the premiere, but the Owen episode and other stuff.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Well a lot of people on Twitter are already crucifying Vince/WWE for this. On one hand, I understand the emotions. But let's say had WWE fully thrown their financial support to the Toffoloni family, would they have even accepted it in this case? Vince and WWE were able to mend fences with Bret Hart and some of the Hart family, but the relationship with Owen's widow, Martha, is still severed to this day. 

Eric Bischoff said he went to Rick Rude's funeral and Rude's family asked him to leave. And Bischoff and Rude had a friendship that went back to their high school days. So if Vince had gone, would he have even been accepted there? 

For clarification, I'm not completely excusing WWE, Vince, and WWE talent here, but IMHO it's a complicated, murky situation. It's not black and white. 

It's ironic that I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm thinking that largely had to do with Rude's Lloyd's of London policy and Rude being adamant that Eric essentially pay back that policy (meaning all the money Rick had spent since he collected) to get back in the ring. Of course, this being Bischoff, he could be probably full of shit. However, Rude was still pissed off at Sting for "ending" his career so there might be some legitimacy to what Eric says. With WWE, before and after even Eddie's death, they would deny, deny their connection to certain things. So they definitely deserved getting shit whereas Eric and Rick was something personal that was likely out of the control of WCW. Part of WWF/E's m.o. is saving their ass public relations wise and not thinking on their feet. I remember till this day seeing the report of Benoit's death that afternoon and thinking, "hey...this is incredibly tragic and I'm heartbroken but uh we're missing some critical details." And you try not to be extra or conspiratorial, but something wasn't adding up. So by sending JR, the ultimate company man to a fault, to a funeral as the official rep, they only added more gasoline to the fire. You cannot fuck up consistently over several decades and expect it to not follow you at some point.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco

[Elsalvajeloco]

48 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Good Lord that poor fucking kid. I already knew his life must've been hell, but fuck man. Nobody should have to grow up with that weight on them. I feel bad for a lot of people in this. Chavo we already talked about, Vickie, Nancy's sister, etc... But poor David Benoit. And doesn't David have a sister as well, also from Chris's first marriage

About Eric: he's getting more unhinged about Meltzer all the time. I think it must improve listenership. Hell, a couple years ago on the podcast he talked about having to get special permission to hire Rick Rude because Rude had sued WCW at the end of his previous stint there. Then on a fairly recent episode, he just absolutely went off about Meltzer making up a story about Rude's lawsuit and reported settlement being part of his contract Basically denying it ever happened. Then you look at the WCW salary information Turner disclosed in the discrimination suit, and Rude made almost exactly $250,000 more in 98 than 99, which would be pretty much exactly what Dave reported was the number in the deal that was part of the settlement.

Like I said, the man is on autopilot. I think what bothers him is someone might know just a little bit about the financial aspect (or other aspects) of his business even though said person wasn't actually there. However, many times (which is understandable I will grant you due to how long ago a lot of this was), Bischoff himself says he doesn't know, can't recall specific details, or outright forgot.

 

[TheVileOne]

1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

Good Lord that poor fucking kid. I already knew his life must've been hell, but fuck man. Nobody should have to grow up with that weight on them. I feel bad for a lot of people in this. Chavo we already talked about, Vickie, Nancy's sister, etc... But poor David Benoit. And doesn't David have a sister as well, also from Chris's first marriage

About Eric: he's getting more unhinged about Meltzer all the time. I think it must improve listenership. Hell, a couple years ago on the podcast he talked about having to get special permission to hire Rick Rude because Rude had sued WCW at the end of his previous stint there. Then on a fairly recent episode, he just absolutely went off about Meltzer making up a story about Rude's lawsuit and reported settlement being part of his contract Basically denying it ever happened. Then you look at the WCW salary information Turner disclosed in the discrimination suit, and Rude made almost exactly $250,000 more in 98 than 99, which would be pretty much exactly what Dave reported was the number in the deal that was part of the settlement.

I think Prichard and Bischoff being anti-Meltzer is part of their schtick, and I think they definitely hype it up more to get attention and listeners. 

EDIT:

The other deleted scene on the after show gets into their time in Japan and how awful trainees are hazed at the dojo. Jericho mentions that Benoit likely concussed him when he slapped him during the match. 

Quote

It's ironic that I mentioned this in another thread, but I'm thinking that largely had to do with Rude's Lloyd's of London policy and Rude being adamant that Eric essentially pay back that policy (meaning all the money Rick had spent since he collected) to get back in the ring. Of course, this being Bischoff, he could be probably full of shit. However, Rude was still pissed off at Sting for "ending" his career so there might be some legitimacy to what Eric says. With WWE, before and after even Eddie's death, they would deny, deny their connection to certain things. So they definitely deserved getting shit whereas Eric and Rick was something personal that was likely out of the control of WCW. Part of WWF/E's m.o. is saving their ass public relations wise and not thinking on their feet. I remember till this day seeing the report of Benoit's death that afternoon and thinking, "hey...this is incredibly tragic and I'm heartbroken but uh we're missing some critical details." And you try not to be extra or conspiratorial, but something wasn't adding up. So by sending JR, the ultimate company man to a fault, to a funeral as the official rep, they only added more gasoline to the fire. You cannot fuck up consistently over several decades and expect it to not follow you at some point.

According to Bischoff, it was due to the Lloyd's of London issue and Bischoff said at the time Rude wanted to get back into the ring, but Bischoff wouldn't let him because he claimed he'd have to payout the insurance policy if he did.

Edited March 25, 2020 by TheVileOne

[Elsalvajeloco]

If you have a F4W sub, I would probably recommend listening to this:

https://www.f4wonline.com/june-26-2007-figure-four-daily-167786

 

[Tabe]

Part 2 is phenomenal as well.  That said, the absolute exclusion of Benoit's daughter from the program is a gigantic red flag.  Other than ONE instance in either episode where Nancy's sister says "kids" when talking about the ones still alive, there is no indication whatsoever that Benoit had 3 kids, not 2.  None. Not even the "declined to participate" they gave Kevin Sullivan.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, Tabe said:

 Not even the "declined to participate" they gave Kevin Sullivan.

To be fair, usually when someone levies serious claims at someone in a doc or news story, you pretty much have to insert that in there if the accused doesn't appear. That's litigation territory.

[TheVileOne]

8 minutes ago, Tabe said:

Part 2 is phenomenal as well.  That said, the absolute exclusion of Benoit's daughter from the program is a gigantic red flag.  Other than ONE instance in either episode where Nancy's sister says "kids" when talking about the ones still alive, there is no indication whatsoever that Benoit had 3 kids, not 2.  None. Not even the "declined to participate" they gave Kevin Sullivan.

I'm curious about what his daughter has to say about all of this, but they might be trying to shield her as best they can. She was much younger than David when this all happened, and she might not have wanted to come forward and speak about this at all. I couldn't blame her, whatever the case may be.

Also, not just Megan Benoit, but also his first wife. We never hear much about her either. 

[MORELOCK]

8 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

the relationship with Owen's widow, Martha, is still severed to this day.

The Owen episode will surely shed some light on this, since we finally get Martha's side of the story. Though it's not really hard to imagine what it is - I'm guessing she won't budge on the HoF issue because she doesn't feel like the company should make even more money off of her dead husband. It might be different if it was just a simple ceremony honoring Owen. Vince gonna Vince so it has to be a huge spectacle not fully focused on the actual legendary wrestlers, and he's got to sell an arena full of tickets to the most annoying wrestling fans he can find.
 

3 hours ago, Tabe said:

Part 2 is phenomenal as well.  That said, the absolute exclusion of Benoit's daughter from the program is a gigantic red flag.  Other than ONE instance in either episode where Nancy's sister says "kids" when talking about the ones still alive, there is no indication whatsoever that Benoit had 3 kids, not 2.  None. Not even the "declined to participate" they gave Kevin Sullivan.

How is it a red flag? Maybe she just doesn't want to talk about her murderous father on national television. It's weird that she wasn't mentioned, but there might be a legal issue and there might not have been a real reason to be sidetracked into talking about why she wasn't there.

[AxB]

How many times on the Osbournes was it mentioned that Ozzy and Sharon have a son and TWO daughters?

[NikoBaltimore]

9 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

See if they still do the thing with their app. You get like, 45 mins free or something. That should be enough for hour two.

Or just wait for it to be on Vimeo or DM in the next few days.

Thanks.  I feel with part one up and the aftershow I should be able to see part 2.  But for the other episodes I may need to consider Vimeo or DM options.