The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[PetrolCB]

8 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Insert the female Fox news anchor of your choice. Or Tomi Lahren. Or Ann Coulter. Or just put "female conservative speaker" into Google.

End of conversation (this goes for you and for any further conversation on the subject, I probably shouldn't have said that at all)

Yeah, way to go Curt. You ruined this thread.

[Peck]

Only one way to get it back on track... a Seinfeld reference.

 

[PetrolCB]

24 minutes ago, Peck said:

Only one way to get it back on track... a Seinfeld reference.

 

@Nice Guy Eddie made this reference to me as we watched it, and I hate him for not thinking of it first.

[odessasteps]

Don't get the thread closed before the Grizzly Smith episode. 

[Curt McGirt]

Sorry

Anyway I don't remember the dingo thing from Gary's book at all. To make up for the above, here's the part of his chapter on it pertaining to Warrior. 

Spoiler

 Chapter 47: The Warrior

Another young wrestler I was helping to develop was The Dingo Warrior. In the summer of 1986, I was looking to create a tag team. I wanted to have two guys who looked like they came from the Bowery in New York City, and name them Dingo and Socko – simply because I thought they were unusual names that the fans might notice out of curiosity. When Jim Hellwig came into Texas, I watched him wrestle, and though he was very green, felt he would be perfect for the role of Dingo. I talked to him after his match, and he told me he went to college in Marietta, Georgia and got a degree in chiropractic medicine, but found that he preferred bodybuilding and wrestling. He even laid me on a table and gave me a decent chiropractic adjustment. He told me that Red Bastien had trained him how to wrestle, so I asked him if he was looking for someone who would help get him to the next level, and he said he was. That night we made a deal for him to become Dingo, and for me to become his manager.  

I suggested that he come down to the Sportatorium, where I could get Tim Brooks to really teach him the fundamentals of wrestling, but Jim made it very clear to me that he wasn’t interested in that. All he wanted me to do was to help him become a big name wrestler - because he wasn’t interested in becoming the greatest wrestler on the card. He also felt that training at the Sportatorium would interfere with his workout schedule, because he worked out twice a day. When I couldn’t find the right Socko, I figured that since Kerry was The Modern Day Warrior, and The One Man Gang did a good job as The Halsted Street Warrior, Jim should be named The Dingo Warrior. The first night I went to the ring with him, I walked behind him so I could get a better perspective of the people’s reaction to him - and I could watch the fans watch him. On the way to the ring, women were reaching out and hugging him, and I knew I had a winner. He had so much charisma, that even though his in-ring work was very green, the people forgave him for that. They simply didn’t care.   
I spent a lot of time helping him build his career, and I did it by watching his matches and making suggestions to him. The things he did well I encouraged him to keep doing, and the things that the people didn’t pick up on I advised him to drop. That was my process with Jim. He had great potential, and I was simply molding him so that he wouldn’t do anything that made him look bad. A couple of things were clear right off the bat. When he lifted his opponent over his head – the crowd would pop, and when he clothes-lined a guy – the crowd would pop again. However, those were the only two things he knew how to do, so I had to figure out other things for him. That’s when I came up with the shaking of the ropes. If you watch the tapes of him and me, he would do something in the ring, then come over and talk to me, then go do something else, and come back to me again. What I was doing was saying, “Throw him to the ropes and catch him in a bear hug,” “Body slam him,” and things like that. That was par for the course, though. Then, one day, just to change it up, I instructed him, “Before you come back, shake the ropes, scream, and pound on your chest.”   

I was thinking Tarzan. That’s exactly what I was thinking in my mind, and he began to develop that image. Because he was so limited by his in-ring performance, I put him in a tag team with Matt Borne so he could have longer matches. By being part of a team, Jim could let Matt do most of the work, and come in for just a bit and take over. Basically, I structured his matches to fit his ability at that time.   

Even though I was managing The Dingo Warrior, it was obvious that no matter what we did, the people refused to dislike him. Therefore, The Dingo Warrior could never really be considered a heel - because the fans refused to see him in that light. He was a beautiful, magnificent specimen that they adored. That was fine by me, and I managed and developed him until he was ready and the time was right – and then Abdullah the Butcher and I turned on him – making him a huge babyface and feuding with him for quite a while.   

Clips of World Class Championship Wrestling were replayed on TV-Tokyo in Japan, and one evening, Antonio Inoki saw The Dingo Warrior on TV and felt he would really get over in his New Japan promotion. Someone from his office got in touch with me, wanting to know if I could send them Kevin Von Erich, The Dingo Warrior, and Scott Hall for a tour of Japan. I told them that I didn’t book Scott Hall, but I made a deal to send Kevin and The Warrior to Japan for big money. As soon as I made that deal, Pat Patterson called me, telling me that he had just signed The Dingo Warrior to a deal with the WWF. I was very happy for Jim, because I knew that the WWF would be far better for him than World Class could, because in World Class, to have longevity, you had to be a good worker. No disrespect to Jim, but he was never what I would call a smooth, polished worker. He was simply a superhero come to life. When Pat told me of the deal, I explained the situation I was in, saying, “I just made arrangements for The Warrior to go to New Japan for Antonio Inoki. Can he do that first?”   

“No, we want him in the WWF as soon as possible,” Pat replied. “We don’t want him in any kind of contact with Inoki.”   

Pat realized that The Warrior had fantastic charisma and incredible potential, and didn’t want him working for anyone outside of the WWF. My hands were tied, so I said, “He’s yours. I hope you do wonderful things with him and that you all get rich.”   

Needless to say - my wish came true! Jim went to the WWF and became one of the hottest guys there, and I’m very proud of him for accomplishing so much in such a short period of time. He did his gimmick very well and he drew a lot of money being who he was, because in the WWF, the fans didn’t care about his work rate – all they cared about was the adrenaline rush they got when they saw him wrestle. I know that in the end, there were some hostilities between Jim and the WWF, but I personally can’t say anything derogatory about him, because I never saw that side of him. When The Warrior was with me, he was just a sweet guy who wanted to learn how to get over and stay over.  

Anyhow, at the time that The Dingo Warrior left World Class, I had him as the Texas Heavyweight Champion. Since Pat wanted him in the WWF as soon as possible, I asked Jim if it was okay if we said Al Perez beat him for the belt in Puerto Rico. Jim was kind enough to okay that phantom title change – and personally dropped the belt off at my office. As an interesting side note – by Pat signing The Warrior and calling me when he did, he truly changed the course of two men’s careers. It turns out that Antonio Inoki not only wanted Jim Hellwig for a tour of Japan – but he also wanted him for a new character he was creating named Big Van Vader. Since 
  
Jim had to cancel his tour of Japan, the role of Vader eventually went to Leon White – who at the time was wrestling for the AWA. 

 

[cwoy2j]

7 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Sorry

Anyway I don't remember the dingo thing from Gary's book at all. To make up for the above, here's the part of his chapter on it pertaining to Warrior. 

  Hide contents

 Chapter 47: The Warrior

Another young wrestler I was helping to develop was The Dingo Warrior. In the summer of 1986, I was looking to create a tag team. I wanted to have two guys who looked like they came from the Bowery in New York City, and name them Dingo and Socko – simply because I thought they were unusual names that the fans might notice out of curiosity. When Jim Hellwig came into Texas, I watched him wrestle, and though he was very green, felt he would be perfect for the role of Dingo. I talked to him after his match, and he told me he went to college in Marietta, Georgia and got a degree in chiropractic medicine, but found that he preferred bodybuilding and wrestling. He even laid me on a table and gave me a decent chiropractic adjustment. He told me that Red Bastien had trained him how to wrestle, so I asked him if he was looking for someone who would help get him to the next level, and he said he was. That night we made a deal for him to become Dingo, and for me to become his manager.  

I suggested that he come down to the Sportatorium, where I could get Tim Brooks to really teach him the fundamentals of wrestling, but Jim made it very clear to me that he wasn’t interested in that. All he wanted me to do was to help him become a big name wrestler - because he wasn’t interested in becoming the greatest wrestler on the card. He also felt that training at the Sportatorium would interfere with his workout schedule, because he worked out twice a day. When I couldn’t find the right Socko, I figured that since Kerry was The Modern Day Warrior, and The One Man Gang did a good job as The Halsted Street Warrior, Jim should be named The Dingo Warrior. The first night I went to the ring with him, I walked behind him so I could get a better perspective of the people’s reaction to him - and I could watch the fans watch him. On the way to the ring, women were reaching out and hugging him, and I knew I had a winner. He had so much charisma, that even though his in-ring work was very green, the people forgave him for that. They simply didn’t care.   
I spent a lot of time helping him build his career, and I did it by watching his matches and making suggestions to him. The things he did well I encouraged him to keep doing, and the things that the people didn’t pick up on I advised him to drop. That was my process with Jim. He had great potential, and I was simply molding him so that he wouldn’t do anything that made him look bad. A couple of things were clear right off the bat. When he lifted his opponent over his head – the crowd would pop, and when he clothes-lined a guy – the crowd would pop again. However, those were the only two things he knew how to do, so I had to figure out other things for him. That’s when I came up with the shaking of the ropes. If you watch the tapes of him and me, he would do something in the ring, then come over and talk to me, then go do something else, and come back to me again. What I was doing was saying, “Throw him to the ropes and catch him in a bear hug,” “Body slam him,” and things like that. That was par for the course, though. Then, one day, just to change it up, I instructed him, “Before you come back, shake the ropes, scream, and pound on your chest.”   

I was thinking Tarzan. That’s exactly what I was thinking in my mind, and he began to develop that image. Because he was so limited by his in-ring performance, I put him in a tag team with Matt Borne so he could have longer matches. By being part of a team, Jim could let Matt do most of the work, and come in for just a bit and take over. Basically, I structured his matches to fit his ability at that time.   

Even though I was managing The Dingo Warrior, it was obvious that no matter what we did, the people refused to dislike him. Therefore, The Dingo Warrior could never really be considered a heel - because the fans refused to see him in that light. He was a beautiful, magnificent specimen that they adored. That was fine by me, and I managed and developed him until he was ready and the time was right – and then Abdullah the Butcher and I turned on him – making him a huge babyface and feuding with him for quite a while.   

Clips of World Class Championship Wrestling were replayed on TV-Tokyo in Japan, and one evening, Antonio Inoki saw The Dingo Warrior on TV and felt he would really get over in his New Japan promotion. Someone from his office got in touch with me, wanting to know if I could send them Kevin Von Erich, The Dingo Warrior, and Scott Hall for a tour of Japan. I told them that I didn’t book Scott Hall, but I made a deal to send Kevin and The Warrior to Japan for big money. As soon as I made that deal, Pat Patterson called me, telling me that he had just signed The Dingo Warrior to a deal with the WWF. I was very happy for Jim, because I knew that the WWF would be far better for him than World Class could, because in World Class, to have longevity, you had to be a good worker. No disrespect to Jim, but he was never what I would call a smooth, polished worker. He was simply a superhero come to life. When Pat told me of the deal, I explained the situation I was in, saying, “I just made arrangements for The Warrior to go to New Japan for Antonio Inoki. Can he do that first?”   

“No, we want him in the WWF as soon as possible,” Pat replied. “We don’t want him in any kind of contact with Inoki.”   

Pat realized that The Warrior had fantastic charisma and incredible potential, and didn’t want him working for anyone outside of the WWF. My hands were tied, so I said, “He’s yours. I hope you do wonderful things with him and that you all get rich.”   

Needless to say - my wish came true! Jim went to the WWF and became one of the hottest guys there, and I’m very proud of him for accomplishing so much in such a short period of time. He did his gimmick very well and he drew a lot of money being who he was, because in the WWF, the fans didn’t care about his work rate – all they cared about was the adrenaline rush they got when they saw him wrestle. I know that in the end, there were some hostilities between Jim and the WWF, but I personally can’t say anything derogatory about him, because I never saw that side of him. When The Warrior was with me, he was just a sweet guy who wanted to learn how to get over and stay over.  

Anyhow, at the time that The Dingo Warrior left World Class, I had him as the Texas Heavyweight Champion. Since Pat wanted him in the WWF as soon as possible, I asked Jim if it was okay if we said Al Perez beat him for the belt in Puerto Rico. Jim was kind enough to okay that phantom title change – and personally dropped the belt off at my office. As an interesting side note – by Pat signing The Warrior and calling me when he did, he truly changed the course of two men’s careers. It turns out that Antonio Inoki not only wanted Jim Hellwig for a tour of Japan – but he also wanted him for a new character he was creating named Big Van Vader. Since 
  
Jim had to cancel his tour of Japan, the role of Vader eventually went to Leon White – who at the time was wrestling for the AWA. 

 

Thanks. That's what I was referencing. Hart's book was interesting as he might be the only person in the wrestling business who liked Warrior but hated Sting. He found Sting to be arrogant, difficult to work with (i.e. not willing to sell for Perez, insisting that Muta not mist him at times) and also condescending to fans at times. Although to be fair, Hart only knew pre-Jeebus Sting who was getting a giant push despite still being fairly green in the grand scheme of things. 

Edited June 1, 2021 by cwoy2j

[Curt McGirt]

The other big takeaway from that chapter is that Warrior was gonna be Vader, which is insane and would have never worked. He'd have came home with his tail (heh) between his legs. A week in the New Japan dojo to "polish him up" would have made him rethink the whole profession.

[AxB]

Leon White was actually third choice to be Big Van Vader. The first two being Warrior, and Sid.

[Curt McGirt]

Why didn't Sid get it? No softball in Japan?

[SirSmUgly]

Man, I gotta get a copy of Gary Hart's book. That's one of those things that I've never bought, but have always really wanted to have. 

[Eoae]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Why didn't Sid get it? No softball in Japan?

Supposedly turned it down due to family obligations (i.e., he was already married by then and didn't want to commit to spending half his time in Japan).  He also allegedly turned down offers from New Japan to be brought back after he worked one tour for them in '89 (under the name "Vicious Warrior").

 

 

[DreamBroken]

Sid denied that he was brought in for the Vader role in his shoots, he said he was brought in to replace Brody and they had him watch tapes of Brody to study.

[The Natural]

Managed to find Mick Foley's A&E documentary and really enjoyed it barring the Beyond the Mat footage of Colette and the kids crying at Mick taking unprotected chair shots to the head by The Rock at the 1999 Royal Rumble making me feel sick all over again. No wonder WWE didn't show the actual footage. Hated it then and more so now with concussions and brain injuries. Mick Foley is so likeable a presence. Foley is one of my 10 favourite wrestlers and he was so great with me when I met him in 2003.

Edited June 3, 2021 by The Natural

[hammerva]

Seriously only 20 minutes in the Grizzly Smith episode and fuck this is brutal.  

Imagine the reaction to this if this was a Netflix documentary series.  Too crazy for anyone to believe 

[hammerva]

Oh man Dynamite Kid next week.  Talk about a killer back to back

Besides the other horrible things mentioned and debated the tamer topic was Cornette claim that Sam Houston was a better worker than Jake Roberts.  It seeks pretty farfetched but we never really saw his full potential.  When it looked like he was being elevated next level, he marries Baby Doll.  The argument there is whether you believe Dusty buried Sam for that.  He did almost nothing else in Crockett and went to WWF and was an opening match guy.   With that and his massive drinking problem, I wonder if he was a big what If or was he what he actually was

Edited June 4, 2021 by hammerva

[NikoBaltimore]

Not to excuse their past addictions but with how fucked up their past was it's dare I say understandable to a degree. Really glad to see that they all came out of the other side relatively healthy. 

I just can't help but think there's more examples that they didn't put in the episode.  But the fact that they're able to open up as much as they did is great.  I hope the siblings are able to talk to each other more and hope this was a big first step towards that. 

Oh, and fuck Grizzly Smith. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by NikoBaltimore

[Curt McGirt]

That was like getting hit over the head with a hammer.

[Octopus]

The brazenness of that monster’s pedophilia is infuriating. Plus, so many people seem to know or see something but not put the pieces together to actually do anything is horrendous. 

I typed more but deleted it. Just a tragic episode.

[The Natural]

15 minutes in The Shadow of Grizzly Smith and I'm taking a break. Feel physically sick. Fuck Grizzly Smith.

[Octopus]

It’s disgusting how terrible that man is.

God bless Jake and Robin.

[Curt McGirt]

3 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Plus, so many people seem to know or see something but not put the pieces together to actually do anything is horrendous. 

This. Entire locker rooms joked about it but nobody did a single... fucking... thing. 

[The Natural]

37 minutes ago, The Natural said:

15 minutes in The Shadow of Grizzly Smith and I'm taking a break. Feel physically sick. Fuck Grizzly Smith.

Jesus, that was a brutal watch. Those poor kids. Fucking paedophilia. Fuck you, Grizzly Smith.

Edited June 4, 2021 by The Natural

[sabremike]

34 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Jesus, that was a brutal watch. Those poor kids. Fucking paedophilia. Fuck you, Grizzly Smith.

That was so dark that I tossed on Faces Of Death afterwards to lighten the mood.

[AxB]

[NikoBaltimore]

One thing I can't stop thinking about (aside from how fucked up the whole thing is) is if there was suspicion or confirmation of Grizzy being a pedophile then how come nobody contacted the authorities.  I get it's different times and it sounded like he had some pull.  But it sounded like there was more than enough there to bust his ass even in that time period.  Was he really that good at hiding it?  Was the common mentality that things just weren't their business?  Or was there fear of repercussions.  I'm not blaming anybody but I just can't help but wonder what if.