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APRIL 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Bix is on some Rupert Pupkin shit when it comes to Dave and Bryan and it's really creepy.  I'd worry Bix would go full Mark David Chapman, except Dave is jacked and Bryan knows BJJ, while Bix is a shut in with the physicality of a small baby.

Also, does anyone care whether the Observer pays writers?  Dave and Bryan are the draws of the site.  I've never read Random Jamoke #573's Raw report.  A free subscription, maybe a cookie, and some exposure is pretty good in exchange for some goof to parrot Dave for a few paragraphs nobody will read.

The attacks on Bix here are a little much. He's not obsessive about Dave and Bryan. If you read his Twitter feed, he regularly posts stuff about journalists unionizing and such, so it's more of a "quality of life for writers" kind of thing. Dave and Bryan are just two people he has personal experience with. 

And to your second point, how often do you work for free? "Just do it for the exposure" is a terrible attitude to have when it comes to producing art or writing. I've been a professional writer, if I do the work, your ass is going to pay me. 

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23 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Right.  Enzo said he took the $17K check and paid off some student loans and credit cards and he flew his parents out to London.  Of course he was spending a lot of money on other shit too but it goes quick.  This is a guy that was generating a lot of revenue for the company through merchandise and he was no even really close to being rich.  Most of the roster has to live a modest lifestyle which seems fine,  they can buy a house and take care of their families but this is a billion dollar corporation so it just seems crazy that they are on the road 24/7 and taking bumps nightly and away from their family and it just seems like maybe it's not worth it all, I don't know.  Unless you become a big star.  

Are they paying people less now? I remember a comment years ago Punk made about Shannon Moore being able to afford by a $300K house. Moore would have been a slightly lower position than Enzo during a less money making period, and I would imagine lives a modest lifestyle.

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Losing PPV checks likely hurt folks. I presume we still have no idea how people are paid for network stuff.

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Posted (edited)

Question.....why do we care how much these people make for doing their jobs?  I'm much more interested in how much they drink and how many rats they bang.  

Edited by Playa Shunna Ver 3.0
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1 hour ago, Eivion said:

Are they paying people less now? I remember a comment years ago Punk made about Shannon Moore being able to afford by a $300K house. Moore would have been a slightly lower position than Enzo during a less money making period, and I would imagine lives a modest lifestyle.

Moore made about $200K in 3 years of WCW, then worked another 5 years or so in two stints at WWE. If he lived frugally, it's pretty easy to see him having $50K from his WCW run, and $50K/year from WWE.

 

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4 minutes ago, Cristobal said:

Moore made about $200K in 3 years of WCW, then worked another 5 years or so in two stints at WWE. If he lived frugally, it's pretty easy to see him having $50K from his WCW run, and $50K/year from WWE.

  

HE also probably made that big dick money in TNA.  Doesn't he own a tattoo shop too?

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Losing PPV checks likely hurt folks. I presume we still have no idea how people are paid for network stuff.

Enzo was talking about this too.  It sounded like they are getting way less than they used to.  He said he made $1000 per week salary and another $600 per live TV appearance. That was on a minimum contract and then the bulk of his money came from merchandise. 

Maybe things are changing since AEW got in the mix,  everyone including Meltzer is saying that WWE has been paying big money to keep people even midcarders.  

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

.  He said he made $1000 per week salary and another $600 per live TV appearance. That was on a minimum contract and then the bulk of his money came from merchandise. 

Maybe things are changing since AEW got in the mix,  everyone including Meltzer is saying that WWE has been paying big money to keep people even midcarders.  

For people that say "Why don't they just take the money to sit in catering instead of bitching about not being used," the bolded part is why.

Edited by Raziel
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5 minutes ago, Raziel said:

For people that say "Why don't they just take the money to sit in catering instead of bitching about not being used," the bolded part is why.

Yeah exactly,  it's bonus money so you can't just assume you have $600 in the bank every week,  if you're not being used you're not getting a bonus.  In Enzo's case he was on every week so that's why it was estimated between salary and bonus money it's around $90K maybe and then he got a couple hundred thousand in merch money.  Which is crazy considering how many t-shirts he and Cass were selling.  Now think about all the performers who don't have much for merch or don't move merch.  Now think about the performers who don't have travel expenses factored into their contracts which is most of them.  Now think about not having health insurance. 

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So that's $2200/week plus travel and merchandise.  I think the Radicalz were all signed to $250k downsides at the height of the Attitude Era and that didn't include travel/hotels.

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3 hours ago, mattdangerously said:

And to your second point, how often do you work for free? "Just do it for the exposure" is a terrible attitude to have when it comes to producing art or writing. I've been a professional writer, if I do the work, your ass is going to pay me. 

One of the best pieces of advice I was given when it comes to work is that there are three main components to work: get paid, get experience, enjoy what you do. Of those three, you shouldn't settle for anything less than two. Of course, it was also suggested that I should know my worth and refuse to budge if someone wants me to work for less than what I'm worth, because chances are that the experience won't be worth it/useful overall and I won't enjoy it.

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The creation of the Network likely accelerated a salary divide between the top stars and everyone else. As @odessastepsmentioned, there is little or no PPV revenue, so lower and mid-card folks are missing what was once a steady bonus. Top guys/girls can get PPV appearances written into their contracts, as well as travel accommodations and bigger cuts from their merchandise sales. But there are only a handful of wrestlers getting major money. Some, say like Sheamus, have been around long enough and are high enough on the card to pull a good income. Everyone else is modestly paid, all things considered.

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Forgot to ask - WCW contracts - were wrestlers independent contracts there too? Or was it just the announcers who got the Time Warner employee benefits?

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Didn't Punk mention them taking away the bonus WM check or something along that line when the Network was rolled out on the Cabana podcast?

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He (along with a lot of the roster) was asking months in advance how it was going to affect their PPV pay but they never got any response about it.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Edwin said:

Didn't Punk mention them taking away the bonus WM check or something along that line when the Network was rolled out on the Cabana podcast?

Yes. He specifically mentioned Orton being one of the few others to ask him “so what happens to our PPV bonuses?” when the WWE was telling them all not to worry

Edited by BobbyWhioux

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8 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

Forgot to ask - WCW contracts - were wrestlers independent contracts there too? Or was it just the announcers who got the Time Warner employee benefits?

That's actually a good question:

The WCW workers couldn't be independent contractors because, if they were, presumably everyone would be an instant free agent the second that WWE bought WCW...but at the same time, they can't be employees because if they were, every WCW employee would have transferred to WWF when they were bought. 

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They were treated as independent contractors in wcw. For the record, NFL players get 52% of all revenue, MLB around 50 and NBA 57. 

Dave says WWE wrestlers get around 8%.  I'm not sure how he gets that but I'm guessing from quarterly stock reports and stuff.

 

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Posted (edited)

Napkin match.  8% by my calculation would be around $79M.  Divide by contracted stars and it's aprox.  $300K per performer but some are making well over a million. 

Edited by Niners Fan in CT
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Regarding the $600 TV appearance money... Is that for wrestling a match, or is it for appearing in any capacity? Is Lacey Evans getting $600 for walking around a bit? Does Mojo get that for talking to himself in a mirror? Does Tyler Breeze get that when he appears in a random backstage skit?

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So I'm watching the latest IPW:UK show on youtube, with Mark Haskins vs David Starr for the title on top (it's a 45 minute video, I thought it might be an epic singles match, but it's actually a three match show (technically four matches, but one of them's a two minute double count out). So in the tag team match, Lewis Howley (one half of Pretty Deadly) does the hands in pockets kip-up that Orange Cassidy does. Then follows up with a Hands in pockets Huracanrana. Later he does an Airplane Spin that turns into a hands free version as well. I think this might be the new trend in indie wrestling - the I'm not trying gimmick.

Starr vs Haskins was a good match as well. Not much over ten minutes, but it's TV. Here's the show if you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYOnms8gWmU

 

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The same Howley that is in NXT UK? i pretty sure him and his partner did alot of "hands in the pockets" in their entrance/posing as well.

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1 hour ago, Swiftian said:

Regarding the $600 TV appearance money... Is that for wrestling a match, or is it for appearing in any capacity? Is Lacey Evans getting $600 for walking around a bit? Does Mojo get that for talking to himself in a mirror? Does Tyler Breeze get that when he appears in a random backstage skit?

Enzo said " per TV appearance" I think when he'd just cut a promo that would count for that. I would guess anyone who appears on the show in any capacity. 

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